Wurider05

These guys around here don't seem to like efficiency. They want someone who needs 20 shots a game or someone who chucks ill advised three pointers or perhaps some who can score but can't play defense. Bottomline he produces but doesn't need to ball alot to give you solid stats. It is plain common sense give him a bigger role on the offense and watch this kid give you 20-25 a game easy. He is ready!!!

Man I would be so happy if the Magic beat CLeveland. They pretty much had their ticket this season. I bet David Stern would cry for weeks if the Nuggets and that Magic make it to the finals. How funny would it be if the so called King is the only one of the big three (Wade, James, Anthony) not to have a ring!!

We unfortunately we may find out. I hate to see what any of our players will evolve into once they escape the clutches of Woody. I got the strangest feeling that we are going to regret letting Marv go if it is true. Who exactly are we going after? If they are going to allow Woody some say and he preaches defense who is out there that can replace Marvin. I keep hearing that we need another scorer. But common sense says "Are there enough shots to go around". Like I said in the previous post we have JJ-Smoove-Bibby-Marv-Horf as our options in that order. It sounds like you all want an all-star 25 ppg a game scorer in Marvin's place. Where are the shots going to come from. Maybe we can do a Bruce Bowen for Marvin straight up!! Or how about we bring in Shawn Marion? You guys don't consider the dynamics on both offense and defense! I mean he gets knocked for not averaging 25 a game. Do you guys realize how very little Marv even touches the ball. Even when he has 15-20 points he only takes 8 or 9 shots. In this current setup there are simply not enough shots to go around and iso Joe is the only offense we run. I read on realgm that 43% of Marv's shots come with 8 seconds remaining on the shot clock!! Some coach is going to put the finishing touches on this kid and have a stud on their hands.

I read this earlier but the Boston Globe is worse than that New York Post!!

These clowns who want to get rid of Marvin must not see the things the rest of us see. I can just see Smoove trying to guard Lebron in the playoffs next year. He would average 50 a game.

I keep reading all these reports that we need a point guard and about us possibly drafting a point guard. What about Acie Law. I mean we seriously haven't seen what he can do but yet we want to label him a bust. I mean Woody will destroy anyone's confidence and how can anyone be a good pg or become one when there is no offense to run. I remember hearing Sund on 790 earlier in the year and he stated that when Acie gets minutes he produces and that he was a victim of circumstance when they signed Bibby (hopefully he doesn't come back) and Flip. So we may just lose Bibby and not get a pg. Hell Flip, Acie, and West can probably hold down the position. There is no guarantee Flip will come back. He will probably go to the highest bidder like Posey did. And don't forget who we are talking about here: the ASG. I just don't see them paying everyone this offseason. The big game changer is if we get a new coach which I doubt.

I think that JJ should be paid 10-12 million a season max. Remember he gets the numbers because he plays alot of minutes. I wonder what his stats would look like if he played normal minutes. I say let the 16 ppg in the playoffs for the last two years determine his pay. We overpaid Smoove and JJ should be making what Smoove is now.

I am not sure how much money we can pay him but do you guys think that he is going to want 17-20 million a season to stay here. Do you guys think that he is worth it?

How about Jamal Crawford???

So just based on what I have been reading. Marvin Williams is the reason why we didn't win the championship this season. And based on that we should do a sign and trade or low ball him. Some say that we should flat out let him walk! Let's say the we do trade him for a center\power forward then you have Josh Smith on the perimeter the enitre time and not to mention what SF in this league could he possible guard. He is a liability on defense. If Smoove is out SF we better have Mutumbo and Tim Duncan in the front court! Let's say we trade him for another small forward. That still doesn't solve the Smoove problem. We will continued to get killed on the inside. The only way we move Marvin is for a 2guard so JJ can be moved to SF. But again that doesn't solve the Smoove problem. Smoove is the problem people!!!! I got these definitions off of the internet (wikipedia) to help some of you out: Small forward The small forward, also known as the "3", is typically somewhat shorter, quicker, and leaner than power forwards and centers, but on occasion is just as tall. Thus, in the NBA, small forwards range from 6'6" to 6'11". The small forward position is considered to be perhaps the most versatile of the main five basketball positions, due to the nature of its role, which is sometimes similar to that of a power forward, and other times more resembles the role of a shooting guard. The small forward and shooting guard positions are often interchangeable. Small forwards have a variety of weapons, such as quickness and strength inside. One common thread between all kinds of small forwards is an ability to "get to the line", that is how opposing players called for committing shooting fouls against them, as fouls are frequently called on the defense when offensive players "take the ball hard" to the basket, that is, aggressively attempt post-up plays, lay-ups, or slam dunks. Therefore, accurate foul shooting is an imperative skill for small forwards, many of whom record a large portion of their points from the foul line. Small Forwards should be able to do a little bit of everything on the court. Current examples include Paul Pierce, LeBron James, and Carmelo Anthony. Power forward Also known as the "4" position and abbreviated as "PF." The power forward plays a role similar to that of the center, down in the "post" or "low blocks." On offense, he can "post up," playing with his back to the basket, or set up for mid-range jump shots. On defense, he plays under the basket in a zone defense or against the opposing power forward in man-to-man defense. Typical NBA power forwards are 6'9" to 6'11" tall, though some power forwards, like the 6'5" Charles Barkley, have compensated for a lack of height with exceptional bulk and strength. The greatest power forwards of all time include Tim Duncan and Karl Malone. Other examples include Dallas Mavericks' Dirk Nowitzki, the Utah Jazz's Carlos Boozer, the Boston Celtics' Kevin Garnett, the Phoenix Suns' Amar'e Stoudemire, the Portland Trail Blazers' LaMarcus Aldridge, Toronto Raptors' Chris Bosh, Minnesota Timberwolves' Al Jefferson and the New Orleans Hornets' David West. Now who goes where?? I think that Marvin and Horf are the only starters that haven't reached their peaks yet. JJ isn't going to get any better. Smoove and Bibby aren't going to get any better. Smoove is still playing the same way he played in high school but just in a bigger arena. Honestly I think that we can get away with him playing PF but not playing SF. NO way in hell. Whether you like Marvin or not you can't deny that he is a better SF than Smoove. Anyone with eyes can see that. Smoove=Iverson--I wonder how many of you will get what this means!!

You can add Jamal Crawford to that list as well. I think that any deal with them would have to include Smoove. Any trade involving Smmove before August 15 he and his agent have to agree to.

Smoove doesn't rebound well enough for the position. Even Dirk who is considered "soft" is a better rebounder. The basketball expert in me isn't sold on Blake Griffin being a good pro.

I hear people talk about getting a point guard in the draft with our pick but my question is do e we need to get any younger??? Do we need to get another player and bank our future on that player developing? I don't think so. We need to trade that pick. We have five players on our team right now that we drafted. How many games would this lineup win?? Acie Marvin Smoove Horf Solo LOL

I can honestly see the we are not that far from being an elite team in the NBA. We have no chance in the second round with three injured starters. Whether we played Cleveland or not it would be hard in the second round with the injuries we have. Hell playing hurt is the same as being injured. I actually saw Marvin trying to grab a rebound with his left hand. I mean Horf, Marv, and JJ have showed some heart for giving it a go. Horf and Marv were in pain the last game. Like most of you I am not happy with the way things are going right now but all this gloom and doom needs to stop. I never thought in my wildest dreams that I would ever say this but I think Woody is a good coach but he has flaws. IF we can upgrade (Fratello, etc) then I am all for it. I am starting to see what Woody is trying to do. One of his flaws is the he doesn't trust his bench or the younger guys. He is pushing defense with Bibby, Flip, and Smoove getting major minutes and that just ain't happening!! If they give Woody any say on personnel I know who will be the first player gone!! I think that our biggest problem is the pg point and Smoove. pg-we need a distributer/slasher pg. Bibby just hangs around the perimeter. Hence lies the problem. Bibby hangs around the perimeter, JJ hangs around the perimeter, Smoove hangs around the perimeter, and Marvin is glued to the right side of the perimeter. That leaves Horford in the paint but he likes to shot jumpers it seems. Marvin and Flip are the only two players that we have that will not settle for jumpers all night. Marv draws contact and gets to the free throw line. We got to many guys standing around doing nothing and that makes it easier for the other team on defense. If we had slasher that is a threat to get to the paint than that would force. Bibby has been exposes by every team we have played in the playoffs. Smoove-- He can't shoot and other teams know this. Defensively he can't guard other SF's. He is undisciplined. As a power forward he should have some type of post game but he doesn't. He has no mid range game either.Dunks or layups but he gets outplayed by Joe Smith. Why he won't play to his strengths is beyond me. He can't effectively play pf or sf. Common sense should be telling him "hey dummy they left us open again because we can't shoot". Last year we got on Marv for not driving to the basket but this year he does and draws the foul. Smoove still settles for the jumper. I haven't seen any of those "dream moves" he supposedly worked on a few years ago. I haven't seen nary a sign of any kind of improvement in that regard. Now either Smith or Bibby needs to go. Here is a list of free agent both restricted and un restricted for pgs, sg, pf, centers. Point Guards Unrestricted Free Agents * Jason Kidd * Mike Bibby * Andre Miller * Stephon Marbury * Jason Hart * Brevin Knight * Smush Parker * Ronald Murray * Marcus Williams * Jacque Vaughn * Lindsey Hunter * Anthony Carter * Kevin Ollie * Quincy Douby * Mike Wilks Restricted Free Agents * Ramon Sessions * Raymond Felton * Nate Robinson * Luther Head * Jarrett Jack Shooting Guards Unrestricted Free Agents * Allen Iverson * Wally Szczerbiak * Bobby Jackson * Ben Gordon * Desmond Mason * Anthony Parker * Damon Jones * Keith Bogans * Rodney Carney * Ronnie Price * Morris Almond * Maurice Ager * Gerald Green * James Singleton * Dahntay Jones * Von Wafer * Shannon Brown * Quinton Ross * Kareem Rush * Juan Dixon Restricted Free Agents * Rashad McCants * Joey Graham * Linas Kleiza * Carlos Delfino (If he returns from overseas Power Forwards Unrestricted Free Agents * Rasheed Wallace * Malik Rose * Drew Gooden * Chris Wilcox * Stromile Swift * Joe Smith * Shelden Williams * Maceo Baston * Cedric Simmons * Juwon Howard * Chris Anderson * Steve Novak * Donyell Marshall * Ryan Bowen * Michael Ruffin * Shavlik Randolph Restricted Free Agents * Charlie Villanueva * Channing Frye * Hakim Warrick * David Lee * Leon Powe * Glen Davis * Aaron Gray * Brandon Bass * Paul Millsap Centers Unrestricted Free Agents * Raef LaFrentz * Radoslav Nesterovic * Jason Collins * Zaza Pachulia * Robert Swift * Chris Mihm * Saer Sene * Jarron Collins * Didier Ilunga-Mbenga * Calvin Booth * Melvin Ely * Ryan Hollins * Lorenzen Wright * Adonal Foyle * Jamaal Magloire * Sean Marks * Theo Ratliff * Patrick O'Bryant * Jake Voskuhl * Dikembe Mutombo Restricted Free Agents * Johan Petro Early Termination Options * Zydrunas Ilgauskas * Eddy Curry--We know he isn't getting out of that contract for nothing in the world. * Mehmet Okur * Mark Blount * Etan Thomas * Jerome James * Kwame Brown * Steven Hunter * Francisco Elson I keep hearing about bringing in this guy and that guy but you have to think about the dynamics of the team. Replacing Bibby with Ben Gordon won't help the problem as it would kill ball movement as he and JJ would become a black hole. If we did do that then Smoove would definitely have to go due to his lack of desire to really hit the board. Bibby-needs to be replaced I think that Jarrett Jack would be a good fit for us if Acie won't be given the keys to the team. Bibby has his pluses but defensively we can't afford him anymore. Teams are going after him. HE is the weak link. We need more assists out of the pg spot. We have too many players that can finish but they are not being given the ball in good spots. Bibs is a shot first pg. If we spread some of those shots around maybe Smoove-Horf-Marv can add 2-3 more points to their averages. JJ-good but we can't put too much burden on him because he can't handle it. JJ was playing 40 minutes a game way before he came to Atlanta. Will need to cut his minutes by 5-6 next season. Marvin- I think that Marv is a keeper but the only reason I would see moving him would be if we got a 2-guard and moved JJ to SF Rarely takes a bad shot. Can make the most out of the fewest shots. Has gotten better every year. Smoove-needs to be replaced can't play SF refuses to play PF. Takes bad shots even though there is a clear path to the lane. Doesn't use his athletic ability on defense. Has spurts when he looks great. What do you do with a guy like this?? Horf-he is a little undersized but he is a banger. Can play PF if we can get a decent center. JJ-Marv-Horford should be the nucleus. How many more years are we going to ask ourselves if Smoove will ever get it. There are some decent free agents out there and we could build up our bench. But Woody would have to play them. Acie LAw-I am all for letting his run the team. I think that he needs extensive minutes. Acie/Flip/West can man the pg spot. Each one brings something different. But either way under no circumstances should we go into next season with Mike Bibby as our starting point guard. This is the one move or change that we have to make no matter what!!

Seems that JJ is just whining because his shots aren't falling and Woody is spreading the ball around. I heard no complaints on the 5 for 17, 7 for 21 nights he was having most of the year. Now that the spotlight is on him he wants to throw Woody under the bus. I don't care for Woody too much and I have been calling for a new coach for years now. Bottom line is the JJ hasn't really played good this year and now when he isn't getting his shots he wants to blame the coach. SHame on you JJ!! SHame on you!!

I actually thought that no one else noticed what exactly Marvin does. But we don't need him according to some on here. I mean we need to be at full strength to beat the better teams. Hell if we were at full strength with Miami I doubt it would have went 7 games. Marvin and sometimes Flip are the only ones who will not settle for jumpers all night. If Marvin would have been in the game driving to the basket drawing fouls then that would have slowed down their momentum in the 3rd quarter.

I was just pointing out an interesting stat that may have been overlooked!!

That has to be some kind of NBA record right!! He shouldn't get a pass. We are 7-8 with him on the playoffs. All 8 of our losses have been blowouts!!!!!

I agree with that. Lebron will not score 100 points. We need to shut down who we can shut down.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives...face_cavaliers/ This is just what we needed another fresh body. Go Hawks!!!!!!!!!!!

I did notice when Big Z was on the perimeter Woody had Smoove guarding him. I guess with his high vertical that would make sense . It it obvious that Horf is the better rebounder so you don't want him out there guarding Big Z. They for the most part keep the paint clear for Lebron but run in after the shot has been put up.

I mean we took the big three to the limit last season and top bottom I think that they are a better team than the Cavaliers. Why is everyone thinking that these guys can't be beat. I think that they are more vulnerable than the Celtics last season. If we control their backcourt we control the game. Cleveland is not a very athletic team. Wallace and Big z are slew footed. If we run we can get them because their big men can't keep up. Bibby needs to run and gun.

Look at the boxes on the left. Woody looks like he knew the deal if he lost.This video was taken today before the game. Damn!

The Heat are going to eat our lunch tomorrow. I have seen nothing of this team that remotely tells me that we can win. I mean we seem to play down to our competition. Teams we should beat we don't.

My problem with Smoove is that he tries to be a finesse player when he isn't smart enought to be one. He has arguably the highest vertical of anyone in the playoffs right now he should be getting 10 rebound a night at least. He has no business trying to lead fast breaks, taking ill-fated shots and playing horrible defense. I am no longer willing to talk about him being a young player with great upside when he is making over 10 million a year.He is a vet now 5 years in. He can't shoot, can't dribble, can't pass, can't play solid defense, is turnover prone but manages to have a good game every now and then. You don't win good championships playing well now and then. He needs to be a shotblocker, dunker, and rebounder. He acts as if he is too good. And he has yet to realize why 99% of his jumpers are wide open. The commentators during last's night game made note of that and stated that he was playing right into the heat's hands when he settled for the jumpers. I mean when and where does common sense come into play. Don Nelson would love Josh Smith. I say we trade him for Monta Ellis straight up and let Bibby walk. Ellis and Smith make exactly the same amount of money. That would be if Ellis isn't damaged goods.