thecampster

I am hearing the criticism in 1 on 1's could get personal.

As you can see below, the definition of a FGA, does not include fouls in the NBA and you can see it is the duty of the scorers to keep track of all that basic data. in the act of a discrepancy, the official can override a score keeper if necessary. But as far as clear guidance as in the NCAA, it does not exist. Most score keepers will count a shot as a field goal attempt if the foul occurs after the shot is released or if the foul did not change the player's attempt in any way. You see a couple of these a game. I have no idea of how much this has or affected Trae's numbers. I only cited it as a mitigating factor and used 3 as an example, not the clear amount. Official duties of score and time keepers. Section XI-Field Goal Attempt "A field goal attempt is a player's attempt to shoot the ball into his basket for a field goal. The attempt starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the actual shot. It continues until the shooting effort ceases and he returns to a normal floor position. The term is also used to include the movement of the ball in flight until it has become dead or has been touched by a player." Section VII-Duties of Scorers a. The scorers shall record the field goals made, the free throws made and missed and shall keep a running summary of the points scored. They shall record the personal and technical fouls called on each player and shall notify the officials immediately when a sixth personal foul is called on any player. They shall record the timeouts charged to each team, shall notify a team and its coach through an official whenever that team takes a sixth and seventh charged timeout and shall notify the nearest official each time a team is granted a charged timeout in excess of the legal number. In case there is a question about an error in the scoring, the scorer shall check with the crew chief at once to find the discrepancy. If the error cannot be found, the official shall accept the record of the official scorer, unless he has knowledge that forces him to decide otherwise. b. The scorers shall keep a record of the names, numbers and positions of the players who are to start the game and of all substitutes who enter the game. When there is an infraction of the rules pertaining to submission of the lineup, substitutions or numbers of players, they shall notify the nearest official immediately if the ball is dead, or as soon as it becomes dead if it is in play when the infraction is discovered. The scorer shall mark the time at which players are disqualified by reason of receiving six personal fouls, so that it may be easy to ascertain the order in which the players are eligible to go back into the game in accordance with Rule 3-Section 1. c. The scorers shall use a horn or other device unlike that used by the officials or timers to signal the officials. This may be used when the ball is dead or in certain specified situations when the ball is in control of a given team. The scorer shall signal the coach on the bench on every personal foul, designating the number of personal fouls a player has, and number of team fouls. NOTE: White paddles-team fouls; Red paddles-personal fouls. d. When a player is disqualified from the game, or whenever a penalty free throw is being awarded, a buzzer, siren or some other clearly audible sound must be used by the scorer or timer to notify the game officials. It is the duty of the scorekeeper to be certain the officials have acknowledged the sixth personal foul buzzer and the penalty shot buzzer. e. The scorer shall not signal the officials while the ball is in play, except to notify them of the necessity to correct an error. f. Should the scorer sound the horn while the ball is in play, it shall be ignored by the players on the court. The officials must use their judgment in stopping play to consult with the scorer's table. g. Scorers shall record on the scoreboard the number of team fouls up to a total of five, which will indicate that the team is in a penalty situation. h. Scorers shall immediately record the name of the team which secures the first possession of the jump ball which opens the game. i. Scorers shall record all illegal defense violations and notify the officials every time AFTER the first violation charged to each team Section VIII-Duties of Timers a. The timers shall note when each half is to start and shall notify the crew chief and both coaches five minutes before this time, or cause them to be notified at least five minutes before the half is to start. They shall signal the scorers two minutes before starting time. They shall record playing time and time of stoppages as provided in the rules. The timers shall be provided with an extra stopwatch to be used in timeouts, etc., other than the official game clock or watch. The official clock or scoreboard should show 12 minute periods. b. At the beginning of the first period, any overtime period or whenever play is resumed by a jump ball, the game clock shall be started when the ball is legally tapped by either of the jumpers. c. If, after time has been out, the ball is put in play by a throw-in or by a free throw, the game clock shall be started when the ball is legally touched by a player on the court. d. During a jump ball, time may not be reduced from the 24-second clock or game clock if there is an illegal tap. e. The game clock shall be stopped at the expiration of time for each period and when an official signals timeout. For a charged timeout, the timer shall start a timeout watch and shall signal the official when it is time to resume play. f. The timer shall indicate with a controlled game horn the expiration of playing time. If the timer's signal falls to sound, or is not heard, the timer shall use other means to notify the officials immediately. If, in the meantime, a goal has been made or a foul has occurred, the crew chief shall consult the timer. If the timer agrees that time expired before the ball was in flight, the goal shall not count. If he agrees that the period ended before the foul occurred, the foul shall be disregarded unless it was unsportsmanlike. If there is a disagreement, the goal shall count or the foul shall be penalized unless the official has other knowledge. g. In a dead ball situation, if the clock shows :00.0, the period or game is considered to have ended although the buzzer may not have sounded. h. Record only the actual playing time in the last minute of the first, second and third periods. i. Record only the actual playing time in the last two minutes of the fourth period and the last two minutes of any overtime period or periods. j. Timers are responsible for contents in Comments on the Rules-Basic Principles-Section N.

This will take some research on my part. The NCAA rule is a player fouled in the act of shooting is not charged a FG attempt. This rule is supposed to be the same in the NBA. However, scorekeepers will charge some shots as shots. Typically (and this isn't how its supposed to be) but if the comes post release or if the foul did not impact the normal shooting motion. There's some interpretation thing in there and I'll have to find it. It's like I said, a bit wonky but the NBA defines "the act of shooting" a bit different than the NCAA. But there is discretion on behalf of the scorekeeper if the foul could have made any change to the shot. Just reread the official NBA rules section and its not "clear" there. There is no guideline on scorekeeping. https://official.nba.com/rule-no-4-definitions/#Fouls

I can't believe you triggered me...on Sunday morning no less. You're making Jesus sad. I can't believe I'm having to defend this. These numbers aren't arbitrary. They show a level of diversity in his offensive ability never before showcased. Point 1: He isn't averaging 40%...he's averaging 43% from the field. Point 2: He isn't averaging 35% from 3, but 37.8%. Point 3: He isn't averaging 87% from FT% but 87.8%. Point 4: Not 25 ppg, but 26.4. Point 5: Not 9 apg but 9.4. To the above points. The thresholds were not set to elevate Trae. He's exceeding all of them. They were the ceiling for other talent. The were set to create a point of demarcation. Not to squeeze Trae in, but squeeze others out. In basketball, an extra 3% FG% is significant, as is an extra 2.8% from 3. In the course of a game, 90 shots are taken, 34 of which are 3's. This means the average shot is worth a potential 2.38 points. A 3% increase in shooting percentage is 6.42 more points per game. That Trae exceeds this "arbitrary" number by 3% means he's being much more efficient offensively, to the tune of 6.42 points per game more. Now 43% isn't a good shooting percentage. However, if you factor in he takes 17.9 shots per game, of which 3 register as shooting attempts where he is fouled in the act of shooting, these go as shooting attempts (there is wonkiness in how the NBA counts and doesn't account shot attempts in the act of shooting). It is fair to say these 3 misses per game are attributed to him being fouled. So his actually shooting percentage is 7.7 attempts on 14.9 shots or 51.7%. The reason these stats are combined is because players who shoot at a volume, tend not to get assists. Those players tend to earn their living at the free throw line and are not looking to pass. The ppg + assists leads a person to believe he is rare talent who can do both. Players who drive for themselves also tend to shoot a low percentage and make it up at the free throw line. Trae is beating that curve too because he is controlling the contact. The getting a player on his hip (something I mentioned pre Trae draft) and waiting on the lane contact getting up a shot. The hesitation drives (something Schröder refused to do). The pull up floater which baits the big to step out next time. The getting people into foul trouble setting them up for later in the game where they have to play passive defense. Stats show these things if you care to look. On to the 2 players mentioned...Stockton (one of my all time favs) and Kidd. Stockton's best season (89-90), he shot 51.4% (11.3 fga/g) from the field and 40.7% from 3. He tallied 14.5 apg. Historic numbers. But he was only taking the shots he could make as evidenced by his 17.2 ppg and his 5.5 FTA per game. He also shot 81.9% from the FT line. The FG% and APG only makes sense if you also consider he wasn't looking for contact and wasn't the offensive focal point. A large number of those assists can be attributed to people being terrified of Karl Malone. Stockton is an all time great but in his best season, he was averaging over 9 points less per game than Trae and drawing 6 less free throw attempts. He wasn't the focus of the offense and this made his time at the point easier. He faced far fewer double teams and many more open shot attempts. Kidd's best season was 98-99. He shot 44.4% from the field and 36.6% from 3. He scored 16.9 ppg and handed out 10.8 apg. He shot 75.7% from the free throw line. In kid's best season he roughly shot the same from the field as Trae but again, over 6 less FTA and almost 10 less ppg. These numbers aren't arbitrary. Its an if this/than that type of an argument. If a volume scorer, percentages suffer, players get injured. If getting assists, ppg suffers. These numbers defy the convention and the line wasn't cut off at his stats, he exceeds the line in every category. They were established to show the variance between what he's doing and other players' ceilings. Your comment was ridiculous. I stand by that.

No it was just a ridiculous take that required a ridiculous response.

And if you would just expand the goal posts by 5 yards, there would be a lot more kickers with 40 straight makes.....smdh.

KRIS DUNNPG, ATLANTA HAWKS Kris Dunn (right ankle) is expected to make his Hawks debut by the end of March, according to Sarah Spencer of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Dunn has undergone procedures on both his right knee and right ankle this season, most recently getting a platelet-rich plasma injection into his knee on February 17. He has since resumed rehabbing from the ankle injury, and the hope is that Dunn will be able to play at some point this month. When healthy his value comes on the defensive end of the floor, so there really isn't much reason for fantasy managers to stash Dunn on their rosters. SOURCE: Atlanta Journal-Constitution Mar 4, 2021, 2:12 PM ET

We knew Dunn would take a while to get back to healthy but he is not useless. I seriously feel like I'm the only one that ever saw him play. He has extremely good handles, a big body for the point. His biggest flaw was playing with a Bulls team that could not shoot. Dunn is the top rated defensive guard in the league. He's next level on that end of the floor. His recovery is progressing and we'll know more post break.

You asked how...you didn't say "that will most certainly get done". I just provide 1 of many hows.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7r59q9y Drummond for Rondo, Bruno and Gallo works just fine. Probably would have to exchange picks but yah...works.

When Dunn is back and healthy (should be a before the end of this month), he'll win the backup point guard job. The guy can't shoot but his defense, floor general, bbiq are all off the charts. When back and healthy, Hunter is your starting 3. Huerter is slowly winning that 2 spot permanently and Cam will need to improve to win it back. Snell has been pretty awesome and has greatly improved his trade value and his value as a Hawk. Bogie has been pedestrian and is the least important as of right now. Bogie, Rondo, Goodwin, Bruno could all be trade bait. Your biggest need is a good backup center when CC is benched.

Nate's post game presser.

A little stat heading on why LP is gone. In the month of February we lost 6 games by 10 points or less. 3 makes, 2 stops (1 of any of the 5 being a 3) in each game and the hawks are 20-14 not 14-20. 20-14 is good for 4th in the East. Now here is my question for any on the board. Was LP responsible for 5 plays that didn't go our way in each of those 6 losses. Substitutions, timeouts, motivation, play calling, player enablement, use of challenges. Could LP have swung 5 plays a game in the last month? I think you know the answer.

Well Kirschner is a bit of a prick so its possible he doesn't like him but ya, LP looked a bit stressed there.

Let's be a bit fair about Trae for a second. His defense has gotten much better this year. We've seen him do a better job of staying in front of his man and even take a few charges. His limbs are too short and his step too slow to be a great defender but the effort has been much better from both he and Huerter this year. (Now if you want to criticize his shooting too much we can talk).

You beat me! "

A grown 50 year old man should not be behaving like I was. I was bounded out of my chair yelling "call a flipping timeout. Come on!!!" Yes, that has been cleaned up for the weak souled among us. I have quietly allowed Peoria to champion this all year as I've been really rooting for LP. There are some things he does really well. Adjustments, good use of time outs, proper use of personnel are not on that list. He does a good job sticking up for the guys and has a good grasp of instituting offense in practice but being a head coach is much more complicated. There is no world where this teams should be under 500. I can lay at least 8 losses solely on LP.

Not gonna lie. I saw this coming. That lack of adjustment to the zone had me irate. I can only wonder what Rondo and Gallo said behind closed doors.

I do not have as quick of a trigger as you, but I came very close last night to saying the same. In the first half, after Trae left the game, Miami began full court pressure and a tight half court trapping zone. Now anyone who has played high school, college level ball knows the best way to beat the full court pressure is bring your center to half court, race a wing up the sidelines, throw a pass half court to your center who then hits the wing in stride to attack the basket...2 pass press break. And anyone who has ever faced a zone like they saw in the first half knows that curls on the elbows breaks down the zone. It went on for a full 5 minutes and LP didn't call a time out. Didn't drop any knowledge on the kids. Get them on the same page. My wife threatened to change the channel to calm me down. I was livid. That should never ever happen in a pro game. It was embarrassing and LP needs to take a very hard look in the mirror. That can never happen again. That was more embarrassing than a Trae nutmeg. IMHO, that's strike 2.

I was considering preseason as well.

Also, Gallo was playing well to start the season. That injury really seems to have set him back. He isn't the same player as the first 10 games.

I'm going to say this again and shout it loud. Not having Dunn is killing us. He is a more than capable backup point. Better defensively than anything we have and the perfect pairing for Huerter on the 2nd unit. Those 2 might be the best paired guard tandem off the bench in basketball and its killing me (and the Hawks) that they aren't getting to play together. I would easily give Rondo's minutes to Dunn. I am not a fan of any minutes for Brandon Goodwin when Dunn is healthy.

I've been trying to stay out of the LP good vs bad debate but 1/2 of these losses can be attributed to coaching style/rotations. I like LP. There is a lot of good there. We can attribute a few of the wins to him as well. But fair is fair.

I have something to say and it took me a while to find the right words. I am not sure I like the modern NBA. I'm having trouble with the game play. The modern NBA has devolved into creating 3 point attempts, lobs and floaters in the lane. Post play is almost non-existent. Teams shoot less than 10 mid range jumpers per game. Some have abandoned the shot altogether. Most sets begin with run, run, run. Possessions have grown between 2006 and today from 79 average FG attempts per game to 88.5 FG attempts per game. 3PT attempts have grown from 16 to 34 attempts per game. This should have led to a FG% decrease but instead FG% has improved by .9 %. this means that for 3 quarters, its an allstar game. Very little real defense played while teams run up and down the court jacking up shots. Its starting to become harder to watch. As the Hawks have struggled below their real potential this year, its exacerbates the flaws to me. 2020 took a lot from all of us....its starting to take basketball from me. These changes are leading to inflated offensive stats, watering down the meaning of a triple double and defense. See these comparisons in the change in the league over the last 15 years. I looked it up to make sure I wasn't just becoming a grumpy old fart. Rk Season Lg Age Ht Wt G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% Pace eFG% TOV% ORB% FT/FGA ORtg 1 2020-21 NBA 26.3 6-6 218 406 241.5 41.0 88.5 12.8 34.9 17.2 22.2 9.9 34.6 44.5 24.7 7.5 5.0 14.2 19.8 112.1 .463 .368 .775 99.6 .536 12.6 22.3 .194 111.8 16 2005-06 NBA 26.5 6-7 220 1230 242.1 35.8 79.0 5.7 16.0 19.6 26.3 11.2 29.8 41.0 20.6 7.2 4.7 14.4 22.8 97.0 .454 .358 .745 90.5 .490 13.7 27.3 .248 106.2 The league has gotten smaller, lighter and younger yet efficiency numbers have gone up. Its becoming a hard game to watch for 3 quarters (Unless you enjoy watching people play horse).

So been working today and hadn't been able to show what I'm talking about. It's all feet with him and it's a common problem with people with long limbs, shorter upper torso. So see the video below I'll call out the time the jump happens and critique the feet. This is from back in March last year but it hasn't changed, its gotten worse as he's tried playing faster. These are all makes but the mechanics are bad. Sometimes bad goes in and good rims out. Shots. 1. .04 mark, feet are about 6 inches apart on the jump. He makes an effort here to jump off both at the same time...has to gather the lead foot to do it. 2. .14 mark. Right leg is extended outside his shoulders to his right. He leaps off the left (does this a lot) and push balances with the right. He's expending a lot of energy to align the shot like this and using his arms more than on good attempts. pushes backwards with lift. 3. .25 mark. Right leg is forward, body is angled away from the basket. Same balance push with right leg but this time its to twist his body square in the air. Rear leg is lift again but also turning. This pushes him lift forward toward the basket this time. 4. .34 mark. 1st shot with legs shoulder width apart. Body is square to the basket but front foot is forward. This is a sign he has to push with his hands, not his lift. This time the momentum from the good lift pushes him forward into a walk. 5. .50 mark. This is a layup and his footwork here shows his tendencies. Its a two foot leap where the right foot starts the momentum and then the real leap is off the left. Bad timing here because he's trying to win all upper body. Feet are an after thought. 6. .58 mark. First catch and shoot and his best attempt thus far. The tell is he lands on his feet and doesn't move any direction. He has his momentum under control. 1st shot in 6 attempts he lands square. 6 1:10 mark. This is the most telling shot. He winds up to jump hard and gets tons of lift. This is very different than any other shot. It means he's starting to tire and his mind thinks he needs extra effort. I could go on but you get the idea. It is way, way better than he started his rookie season on where his elbows were different with every shot and his lift was completely different each shot. But bad mechanics eventually show out and this will be much harder to fix. My prescription is many more catch and shoots, less creating for himself. If he wants to create for himself, I would suggest high screens where he drives left/right off the screen and pulls up on either side of the screen so he can control his lift/feet. Now remember, this is a highlight video where they are all makes...but mechanics are mechanics. We never see the misses but the mechanics are the same.