thecampster

and I was right not to speak up. Not the dead deal I was told. for the board....teams have inquired about JC, Hunter and Huerter and we've listened to all but not seriously considered one in those deals. Teams inquired about Cam and we laughed heartily with speaker phone on at each pitch. Teams have also inquired about Capela as well and I do not know how that turned out but I'm assuming it went no where. In most cases, teams have been interested in using us as a 3rd team in trades and not directly except for a few pitches. These are all pitches right now. Very little in the trade world is serious yet and won't be for about 6 days or so.

I don't wanna start nothing without knowing. My phone hasn't been hot but once in a few weeks.

I'm starting to think we aren't talking about the same players. Is this the 2 week old proposal?

All star rosters 2020....have fun! #2 | Forward-Center Anthony Davis 26.6 PPG3.3 APG9.2 RPG LAL #2 | Guard James Harden 35.3 PPG7.3 APG6.5 RPG - HOU #2 | Forward Kawhi Leonard 27.1 PPG5.3 APG7.4 RPG LAC #2 | Forward-Guard Luka Doncic 28.9 PPG8.7 APG9.5 RPG DAL #2 | Forward LeBron James 25 PPG10.8 APG7.8 RPG LAL #24 | Forward Giannis Antetokounmpo 30 PPG5.8 APG13.5 RPG MIL #24 | Center-Forward Joel Embiid 22.9 PPG3.2 APG11.9 RPG PHI #24 | Forward Pascal Siakam 23.5 PPG3.5 APG7.5 RPG TOR #24 | Guard Kemba Walker 21.8 PPG5 APG4 RPG BOS #24 | Guard Trae Young 29.7 PPG9.2 APG4.4 RPG ATL #2 | Guard Devin Booker 26.4 PPG6.3 APG4.2 RPG PHX #2 | Guard Chris Paul 17.5 PPG6.6 APG5 RPG OKC #2 | Guard Damian Lillard 29.5 PPG7.9 APG4.4 RPG POR #2 | Center Nikola Jokic 20.6 PPG6.9 APG10.2 RPG DEN #2 | Guard-Forward Ben Simmons 16.9 PPG8.3 APG7.9 RPG PHI #2 | Forward-Center Domantas Sabonis 18.3 PPG4.8 APG12.5 RPG IND #2 | Forward-Guard Jayson Tatum 22.1 PPG3 APG6.9 RPG BOS #2 | Guard Russell Westbrook 27.2 PPG7.2 APG8 RPG HOU #24 | Center-Forward Bam Adebayo 15.8 PPG4.9 APG10.4 RPG MIA #24 | Forward Brandon Ingram 24.9 PPG4.2 APG6.4 RPG NOP #24 | Guard Donovan Mitchell 24.3 PPG4.3 APG4.3 RPG UTA #24 | Forward Jimmy Butler 20.6 PPG6.1 APG6.8 RPG MIA #24 | Center Rudy Gobert 15.6 PPG1.5 APG14.6 RPG UTA #24 | Guard Kyle Lowry 19.6 PPG7.6 APG4.7 RPG TOR #24 | Forward Khris Middleton 20.4 PPG4.3 APG6.1 RPG MIL

I thought that was just testing the offer....we're interested?

Yes but clarifying. On your point...the PR hit is with players, not fans. Players absolutely talk about teams that don't hit the 90% threshold and label them cheap.

From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_NBA_draft The 2020 NBA draft will be held on November 18, 2020. The draft was originally scheduled to be held at Barclays Center in Brooklyn, New York, but will now be conducted at ESPN's facilities in Bristol, Connecticut, with it being held via videoconferencing.

Semantics. Not spending the full 90 costs you more in PR than any flexibility would give. Just assume it will be spent. Also, that 90 is calculated end of season, not beginning. So they don't "have" to spend it by Jan 18....they just "have" to spend it by season's end net.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/york-reportedly-willing-trade-back-120029064.html That they've added Wiseman to their list is new to me.

See that's fair. I am in no way advocating to just give him a max deal. I'm just looking at reality. Someone is going to give him a max or near max deal. $15 million a year is just not going to happen barring major injury or major public relations episode. Someone will....that's the price.

I was told to expect information to start flowing around the 20th...a week or so after the finals end. That lines up with them needing a week or two to settle league business.

I have very, very good feelings about next next year. I see us as +.500. Everything revolves on team health but I see both Cam and Hunter taking a step forward and Capela's additon can't be understated. Consider all that and that there is one more free agent to be signed and this is shaping up to be a very, very good team next year. Still too young to compete but more W's than L's.

A lot of people forget that part.

First let me go on record and say, "I hate it when people make me research things I already know." Second, these are never my own unique thoughts but things I've read from countless sources. I would go out on a limb and say very few if none on this board read more than me daily from serious sites. From Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/patbenson/2020/03/01/john-collins-has-earned-an-extension-with-the-atlanta-hawks-but-for-how-much/#6f73816a5671 " However, Chris Kirschner of The Athletic wrote in October that five NBA agents estimated that Collins was worth a four-year extension of $80 million to $110 million. That would be more in line for a player like Damontis Sabonis (four years, $74.9 million plus $10.4 million in incentives) or Jaylen Brown (four years, $103 million plus $12 million in incentives). So how much money should the Hawks invest in Collins this offseason? The answer is still unclear. A lot of it depends on how they do in free agency this summer and their expectations for free agency next summer. The last thing the organization wants is a cloud hanging over Collins for the entirety of the 2020-2021 season. It’s clear that John Collins has earned an extension. Now it is time to figure out at what price." From the AJC: "This is a difficult position for the Hawks to be in. Collins will most likely demand a max extension and you can make the argument that he’s played his way into one. However, after acquiring Clint Capela and likely having to give Trae Young a max extension in the next two seasons, I’m not sure if it would be the best bet for Atlanta to give up that type of contract this offseason. At the very least, if Collins doesn’t pivot off a max stance, perhaps it would be wise to let him play out this season and just match any contract offer he gets in restricted free agency. Or, if they still don’t want to pay him the big money that he’s likely to demand on the free-agent market, perhaps they could work out a sign-and-trade with him. It’s not a foregone conclusion that John Collins will be in Atlanta long-term, but there’s no question he’s quickly transforming into a really good player for the Hawks. Atlanta just needs to determine whether or not he’s become invaluable to the Hawks." According to Kevin O’Conner of The Ringer, "Collins may get dealt because the team does not want to pay him north of $20 million annually in free agency:" It's easy to research but kid is getting paid. $27 mil is the max, and it seems a foregone conclusion he's going to make $20 million +. The question is does he take a hometown discount to stay here. If I had to bet, I'd say $22 million a year to stay in Atlanta....Max or damn near to get signed away.

Where is my use all your likes on one post button.?

I'm still having a real problem with this post. JC's max is a 4 year deal starting at $27.25 million per. Basically a $110 -$115 million contract. So using your $50 million too much, are you saying JC is a $60 million, 4 year contract player? Are you saying he's worth $13.5 million after next season (when he'll be 23 going on 24), then 14.5, $16, 17 million. Please tell me that is what you are saying. We all know I'm adverse to betting but please bet me on this...I'm begging you. JC only gets a 4 year $60 million contract after next year (barring injury, covid or suspension obviously). I have to believe you just really aren't understanding what we're saying. $20 million a year starting is the bare minimum he'll get. Help me understand how a top 20 stat player doesn't get paid in the top 80 in the league....I'm begging you.

Okay, so I guess we're doing this. What do you think JC is worth per season?

That difference is the difference between seeing him in Hawks red or having to play against him 3 times a year.

Another year of similar numbers puts him in some pretty elite company. Plus we will have a major center upgrade this year. We played last year largely with fill in centers, people hurt, etc. The two rookies having a year under their belts, at least one quality player still to come in....The Hawks will win and dare I say be above .500 this year. Do that and John/Trae will get much more attention.

I think we're missing the point though...a sample size of 140+ shots at 40 percent is enough to say he can and will do it the rest of his career. An eFG of 63.2% for a season is pretty ridiculous. He's 22 and has been increasingly productive each year. Its crazy to me to think some GM next year isn't giving him the max if he just holds serve.

He shot a ton of 3's last year. Shot 58% from the field and shot 141 threes last year making 40.1%. 50 and 38 would be a step back. and the Hawks had 2 seasons last year. A 25 game stretch without John Collins where they went 4 and 21 and the other 42 games where they went 16 and 26. .160 team without Collins, .381 team with Collins. Let that sink in. The man made that kind of a difference. The Hawks were bad last year with a whole cast of players getting minutes who didn't deserve it and others on the bench getting a paycheck. Your soft stats reflect who you play with. Your hard stats reflect what you're capable of. The man is gonna get paid.

So again, I really don't want to nitpick this but there is a market for 2 max contracts per team. That's the basic structure of the cap. This means that in order to be capable of pulling a max contract you need to be a top 60 player in the league. Top 30 is almost a guarantee. You can say what you want and we can nitpick if 95% of max is really max or not but when a player is 2nd in FG%, 9th in rebounds, 10th in blocks, 20th in points and is only 22 years old, an easy argument can be made he's top 30. Max contract players aren't all Lebron James. A max contract (not super max) for a player coming off of his rookie contract is 25% of the salary cap. With a cap of 109 million this year, that is $27.25 million. Is it really crazy to think that John Collins isn't going to get signed for that? What follows are players in that range and where their salary ranks in the NBA. Otto Porter, Andre Drummond, Hassan Whiteside, Jrue Holiday, are all making around that. That's the price to lock Collins up. Rookie max is not 10 year max. 24. Nikola Vucevic, Magic: $28,000,000 25. DeMar DeRozan, Spurs: $27,739,975 26. CJ McCollum, Trail Blazers: $27,556,959 27. Joel Embiid, Sixers: $27,504,630 28. Nikola Jokic, Nuggets: $27,504,630 29. Andrew Wiggins, Timberwolves: $27,504,630 30. Devin Booker, Suns: $27,285,000 31. Kristaps Porzingis, Mavericks: $27,285,000 32. D’Angelo Russell, Warriors: $27,285,000 33. Karl-Anthony Towns, Timberwolves: $27,285,000 34. Otto Porter, Bulls: $27,250,576 35. Andre Drummond, Pistons: $27,093,018 (8% trade kicker) 36. Bradley Beal, Wizards: $27,093,018 37. Anthony Davis, Lakers: $27,093,018 38. Hassan Whiteside, Trail Blazers: $27,093,018 39. Jrue Holiday, Pelicans: $26,231,111 (plus incentives) 40. LaMarcus Aldridge, Spurs: $26,000,000 (15% trade kicker) 41. Steven Adams, Thunder: $25,842,697 (7.5% trade kicker) 42. Giannis Antetokounmpo, Bucks: $25,842,697

Not all. Dedmon comes off after 2021 freeing up most of the money for a Collins resign. Basically we need to come in about $5 million under the cap or sign a few 1 year players/trade for contracts expiring in 2021. Collins is our own player so we can go over to sign him. The problem comes in 22. You still want to maintain flexibility in order to keep your players and not land in LT hell like GS. To do that you need to sign/trade those contracts now and not in a year so they're off the books in Trae's year and Cam/Hunter's year.

I'm really not going down this road and we're only talking about it because we're in the dead period. He's 22 and top 20 in 4 very important categories, top 10 in 3 (2nd FG%). He's gonna get paid...period.

Some very simple math. Of the guys who had at least 10 rebound per game last year. Only 1 broke 20 pts/game besides Collins. 1 Andre Drummond C 26 TOT 57 56 33.0 7.3 13.8 .533 0.1 0.6 .143 7.2 13.1 .551 .536 3.0 5.2 .575 4.4 10.8 15.2 2.7 1.9 1.6 3.6 3.5 17.7 2 Giannis Antetokounmpo PF 25 MIL 63 63 30.4 10.9 19.7 .553 1.4 4.7 .304 9.5 15.0 .631 .589 6.3 10.0 .633 2.2 11.4 13.6 5.6 1.0 1.0 3.7 3.1 29.5 3 Rudy Gobert C 27 UTA 68 68 34.3 5.7 8.2 .693 0.0 0.0 5.7 8.2 .693 .693 3.7 5.9 .630 3.4 10.1 13.5 1.5 0.8 2.0 1.9 3.2 15.1 4 Hassan Whiteside C 30 POR 67 61 30.0 6.5 10.5 .621 0.1 0.1 .571 6.4 10.4 .622 .624 2.4 3.6 .686 3.9 9.7 13.5 1.2 0.4 2.9 1.8 2.9 15.5 5 Domantas Sabonis C 23 IND 62 62 34.8 7.4 13.7 .540 0.3 1.1 .254 7.1 12.6 .565 .550 3.5 4.8 .723 3.0 9.4 12.4 5.0 0.8 0.5 2.7 3.1 18.5 6 Jonas Valančiūnas C 27 MEM 70 70 26.4 6.2 10.6 .585 0.5 1.3 .352 5.7 9.3 .617 .606 2.1 2.9 .740 3.0 8.2 11.3 1.9 0.4 1.1 1.8 2.6 14.9 7 Nikola Vučević C 29 ORL 62 62 32.2 8.0 16.7 .477 1.6 4.7 .339 6.4 12.0 .531 .525 2.1 2.7 .784 2.3 8.6 10.9 3.6 0.9 0.8 1.4 2.2 19.6 8 Bam Adebayo PF 22 MIA 72 72 33.6 6.1 11.0 .557 0.0 0.2 .143 6.1 10.8 .564 .558 3.7 5.3 .691 2.4 7.8 10.2 5.1 1.1 1.3 2.8 2.5 15.9 9 Tristan Thompson C 28 CLE 57 51 30.2 5.1 9.9 .512 0.2 0.4 .391 4.9 9.5 .518 .520 1.7 2.8 .615 4.0 6.2 10.1 2.1 0.6 0.9 1.8 2.2 12.0 10 DeAndre Jordan C 31 BRK 56 6 22.0 3.4 5.1 .666 0.0 0.0 3.4 5.1 .666 .666 1.5 2.2 .680 2.5 7.5 10.0 1.9 0.3 0.9 1.3 2.0 8.3 Of the 27 other players who averaged 20 or more points per game last year, only Lebron averaged 10 in any other category (assists). Of the 27 players who broke 20 or more points per game last year, only 2 average 1 block or better per game. Wiggins (1.0) and Porzingis (2.0). Collins isn't on the list because of the games missed to start the season. Had he played enough games to qualify, he ranked 20th in points, 10th in blocks, 9th in rebounds while only offering 1.8 turnovers per game and shooting 58.3% from the floor. He's gonna get the max barring anything stupid happening.