thecampster

I've been scanning OKC message boards for intel and here is what I found (composite). OKC obviously has no need for Schröder, they need a PF and SG. They are trying to act as the pass through team for Dennis. They are working with a few teams, trying to move Dennis to those teams for a shooting guard and compensation for Atlanta in taking on Melo. Moose fits the bill for the fill in PF so they are looking for a shooting guard back for being the pass through for Dennis. They are looking for a Kyle Korver type but younger on a team who needs a point guard. They are expecting a deal very shortly as they say they have partners in the works.

OKC doesn't do the deal though because in that deal their cap gets worse, not better. They'd be doing this deal to drop huge tax, not take on more.

He's not getting it now, but he's getting it next year when we'll have plenty of cap to spend. Consider it this way. We're trading Dennis this year for $15.5 million to spend next year which should give us in excess of $50 million in cap space. Both the Lin move and the Schröder move clear cap space in 2019. Here are the list of the to 10 free agents next year. 1. Durant 2. Leonard 3. Towns 4. Irving 5. Butler 6. Porzingis 7. Thompson (Klay) 8. Walker 9. Middleton 10. Horford $50 million is almost enough to snag 2 of those at the same time. If they can somehow find some way to offload Bazemore by the deadline. That number could/would rise to above $70 million. More than enough to grab 2 of the above players. This would give the Hawks the ability to complete the rebuild in just 2 years. So I'm willing to give up Dennis and bottom out (for 1 year) as long as we do something meaningful with the money.

If they only send Dennis and Moose, they won't be Its how you are post trade, not before.

If this deal goes down we now have a roster spot for Junior Robinson.....just sayin!

No this deal is all about freeing up cap space next year and beyond. It's a very good idea cap wise. Just bad this year. It's accelerating the rebuild.

The OKC LT savings is about $35 million with this deal....its them.

OKC is over the cap and over the LT. First, they would need a bit more in salary taken back to satisfy the CBA...Schröder + Moose only is about 1.7 million short of that. Additionally, this is a very important deal for OKC than for us. As repeat offenders of the LT and being over 20 million over the LT, the savings from saving 7 million on the deal is about $35 million in savings for OKC and in addition they need our other cheap assets (1.3 mil contracts) to go with it to fill salary. They need this more than us. We should be getting something good back. So I am thinking they would be taking Dennis and Moose + 2 low salaries on our roster (probably why Dorsey/Cleveland were show cased and allowed to ball hog in summer league) in exchange for a future 1st (or more).

We would need to add some salary from our end to make it match. We probably want to add Plumlee to get him off the books and they probably want minimum salary coming back (like Moose). My basic calculation says the Hawks need to add 6.74 million in salary to the trade to make it work (125% +100,000 of outgoing salary to = 27.98 million). So Schröder + Moose doesn't get it done...would need to add 1.74 million more. Schröder + Dedmon works, Schröder + Plumlee works. Schröder + Moose + any 2 of (Adams, Morris, Dorsey, Bembry, Cleveland) works.

In both cases I gave up the dollar. The difference is in how and when I expect to make returns.

Dude, if my explanation didn't make it clear, you are driving a golf ball into a hurricane. The definition being used on this board for "tanking" is any time you give up talent and win less, irregardless of what you looked like before hand. You aren't winning this argument because the board has a definition problem and one they are willing to learn. The GSW example used earlier of how they drafted their top 4 players ignores the fact one of those players was replaced in the starting lineup the next year and that another was not drafted in the first round. It also ignores the fact that we've said repeatedly that drafting is important, but that we've also said scouting and development are the ways to win the draft, not purposely losing talent to try and gain some in a higher pick. The easy answer is this. I have a dollar. Tanking is purposely giving that dollar to a cashier for 4 quarters. I plant those quarters in the yard hoping 2 of the 4 grow in to a dollar each. Rebuilding is taking that dollar and investing it in gas for my lawn mower so I can mow my neighbor's yard and make 10 dollars. they aren't*

You see the difference between Basketball and Baseball is that your prospects develop in the minors where they can dominate and win. In Basketball, they are fed to the likes of Lebron, Durant and Westbrook every night and get accustomed to losing. After 4 years of that, they move on to a team that can win.

Baseball rebuild - Trade aging expensive stars for young prospects for your farm team after your team is already out of the playoff race. Let those players stay in the minors for 2-3 years and develop. Call them up to the big club. You still own their rights for an extended period of time. Sign veterans to go with them. This is what the Astros did. They weren't trying to "Get a high draft pick", they were restocking their farm system with already drafted players on other minor league rosters via trade. But every year, the Astros signed new players to take those spots on the big club roster. They recycled and traded vets for prospects. Basketball tanking - Trade aging expensive stars for players on bad contracts with little value in exchange for draft picks. Draft those young players who must play on your roster if signed. You own their rights for 4 years. Wait for the bad contracts to become expirings and try to trade those at the deadline to other teams trying to rebuild or if those players redeem themselves, to contenders for low first round picks. Wait 4 years for 4 years of high drafting. Before your rookies get max deals and if they've developed into star level talent, try to sign free agent stars to pair with them. If they don't develop, you won't be able to sign stars to play with them, restart the treadmill. It is very different in that a Baseball rebuild usually centers on restocking a farm system and can be broken out of at any time by taking on salary at the trade deadline from failed teams. The acquired players are draft picks, but players already drafted and who are stashed in the minors. You don't even have to lose big to do this. Because a major league roster is comprised of 8 starters, 5 starting pitchers and 1 closer (14 impact players), it isn't worth it to tank for an entire year to get 1 higher 1st round draft choice. The pool of players is much larger to pick from and scouting becomes better than draft position. The variance between 1st and 30th picks are much closer than in the NBA. In Basketball, you have 5 impact players and a much bigger variance between the skill level between the 1st and 30th pick. Also, age is a factor because basketball players come out all through the 4 year college window. The higher the draft, typically the younger you draft. So high level players are less likely to contribute right away but have higher potential. A top 5 pick is very attractive, but player movement in the NBA is such that most high level picks explore free agency after their rookie contract expires and before they reach their prime. Let's use Lebron as the example. Lebron was drafted by Cleveland and spent his first 7 years there. But then he got frustrated and went title shopping. He went to Miami as a free agent to get his ring. If Lebron hadn't had OHIO ties, he wouldn't have gone back to Cleveland and they wouldn't have gotten their ring...12 years after they drafted him. Remember, Lebron's Cleveland championship wasn't due to their tank or to him being drafted by them, it was due to Lebron negotiating some level of control in personnel decisions to sign as a free agent and Cleveland spending the money to bring in a butt load of free agents and going into the Luxury Tax. Cleveland bought a championship, they didn't draft one. Yes GS drafted Curry, Thompson and Green (not a lottery pick) but in the 2 years before winning the championship, they also traded for or signed Iquodala, Murphy, Crawford, Brooks, Blake, Livingston, Rush, Barbosa. They traded/signed their way to a championship....which they wouldn't have been able to do except for the dumb luck that Curry was injury prone his first 3 years and was resigned on the cheap. The same is true for the Astros and Cubs. They made savvy trades to build their farm system and but they weren't able to finish their teams without going out and spending money on free agents and trading away some of those farm systems. Tanking doesn't win. In the end, every team figures out that you have to spend money to make money. You have to sign Jon Lester, acquire Iggy/Durant, Bosh/Lebron. You realize getting a Lebron isn't enough and you have to add a JR.Smith on the cheap, trade for a Kevin Love. Tanking doesn't win....stepping up your player acquisition game does.

OMFG...I give you their record over 42 years and you still want to say "but they tanked". They always sucked...dude you love to ignore facts to suit your agenda. Only 4 seasons of 90+ wins in 42 years. They started tanking when the Vietnam War ended. only 4 good seasons in 42 years is exactly what KB21 is talking about. They fixed it by committing to spending the money and traded away youth for good vets. That you are even trying to justify tanking in the NBA for high draft picks to trading away vets in MLB to rebuild your farm system just shows how weak your argument is. You had to go "outside the NBA" to make your point. Let me simplify this argument. You cannot draft your way to a championship. You can trade away your vets and this will lead to losing but it only works if you are doing so to acquire assets that you can turn into other good vets. Rookies and 2nd year players don't win championships. The articles I've already posted show that players don't reach their prime until their mid 20's. Players under 25 cannot be your core or base. You need stars between the ages of 25-35 to be a contender. This is what KB is saying. The only way to get those players through the draft is to keep them for 5 years +. Math doesn't lie.

And gave Jon Lester $155 million reasons to help them get better....and got David Ross and a slew of other vets...but you know...facts and details.

Yep...Bud went to management wanting to be bought out, not the other way around.

In that span of 42 years...the Cubbies won 90 or more games 4 times. Sorry, this gets funnier the more I research. Hey AHF...wondering if you could define "tanking" for me....exactly what you call it. While you're at it...define "rebuilding by tanking".

Between the 1973 and 2014 seasons (42 years) the Cubs finished .500 or worse 32 times. Using a team who has only had 10 winning seasons in a span of 42 years as a team who purposely tanked really hurts your credibility (and strengthens KB21's).

You do realize that other than a few oddball seasons, the Cubs were losing for most of 70 years right? That's really a bad example of tanking. When a team has less than 5 winning seasons in 30 years, it isn't tanking, its embarrassing.

So uhm....my wife's doctor calls me sweetie. I'm assuming because I am. So guys...true admission time here. I'm a sexist. I prefer one sex over another. Given an evening to chat, engage, enjoy myself, I'd much rather spend time with women. I enjoy their company more and find most guys boring and tedious. I find women more interesting and oh ya...they like me more too. Eddie's comment is so far out of bounds on this and he doesn't have the ability to see it. I call the cashier sweetie because in my house, I do the grocery shopping which means I'm always talking to them. When I go through the checkout line, I always greet the cashier with a smile, ask them how their day is going and am empathetic either way. In general, the vast majority greatly appreciate that I'm considerate and see them more than just a robot who needs to hurry the hell up and check out my groceries. I'm genuine...regardless of if they're black, white, redhead, blonde, curvy or bone thin and as long as they've been even the least bit sweet during the interaction, I will always say goodbye with a kind and bordering on flirty "Thank you sweetie". More often than not, I get a shy grin, maybe even a blush and it is almost blatantly obvious that I made her day. It's never creepy and always intentionally flattering. If you find yourself getting the stink eye from women you are nice to or from using good ole southern phrases, consider that you might be doing it creepy. For example, saying "thanks Hun" while staring at her breasts is much differently than saying "thank Hun" while offering a polite smile, meaning thank you in earnest and making eye contact. It's all in the execution and intention. Women are much better than we are at discerning your intentions. So why am I able to do pull this off. Because I truly like women. Not just as sex objects, but as people. True I enjoy it when one cooks for me or bakes for me, but I also enjoy when one compliments me, educates me or challenges me. A male feminist isn't one who stands up for every small injustice. He is one who appreciates everything a woman is and the vast majority of women do like to be appreciated for their femininity, as long as you aren't leering and slobbering. If Eddie hung out with me for a few days, he might even start asking for tips because...imagine this...most women like me as a person, irregardless of my looks.

In all of those situations the "tank" was abandoned for aggressive trades and free agents.

We lost to Lebron multiple times and should/would have gone to the finals in the 60 win year. Its hard to criticize the 10 year playoff team when you ran into Lebron and the nba preferred matchups back to back years with good teams. They won 3 series between the 2014-15 and 2015-16 seasons only to be swept both years by Lebron and the Cavs. There was no way the NBA was allowing the Hawks to go to the finals during that season. The series was extremely physical (Matthew Dellavedova diving at legs, Al's ejection).

Definitely not Drew's fault. Drew inherited a team that went 38-44 the previous year and then lost 277 player games to injury. Only Khris Middleton appeared in all 82 games. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Drew Team Year G W L W–L% Finish PG PW PL PW–L% Result Atlanta 2010–11 82 44 38 .537 3rd in Southeast 12 6 6 .500 Lost in Conf. Semifinals Atlanta 2011–12 66 40 26 .606 2nd in Southeast 6 2 4 .333 Lost in First Round Atlanta 2012–13 82 44 38 .537 2nd in Southeast 6 2 4 .333 Lost in First Round Milwaukee 2013–14 82 15 67 .183 5th in Central — — — — Missed Playoffs Career 312 143 169 .458 24 10 14 .417 https://www.nba.com/bucks/history/season-recaps Highlights Milwaukee’s 15 wins, 10 home wins and five road wins were all franchise lows as the Bucks struggled through an injury-plagued season. The Bucks lost 277 player games due to injury or illness during the season, with the projected Opening Night starting lineup failing to log a single minute of court time together. Players aged 26 or under logged nearly 75 percent of the available minutes for the Bucks on the year. Ramon Sessions, acquired by the Bucks midseason in a trade with Charlotte, appeared in 83 total games for the season. Sessions became just the 40th player in NBA history to appear in more than 82 games, and the first to accomplish the feat since Jarrett Jack logged 83 games in 2010-11. John Henson recorded multiple streaks of 15+ games with at least one blocked shot during the year. His 21-game run with at least one block from Dec. 13 through Feb. 22 was the fourth-longest in the league for the season. Brandon Knight led the Bucks in both total points and total assists for the season, joining Brandon Jennings as the only players in franchise history to lead the team in both categories during their inaugural seasons with the franchise. Giannis Antetokounmpo appeared in both the BBVA Compass Rising Stars Challenge and Taco Bell Skills Challenge during NBA All-Star Weekend in New Orleans. The 19-year-old also became the youngest Buck ever to start a game for Milwaukee when he earned his first starting nod on Dec. 18 vs. New York.

Actually, subtract Lebron from the East and it would have gotten us at least one ECF. Lebron ruined everyone's life for the last 8 years.

There is no reason to trade Schröder yet