thecampster

You take the fun out of everything. Next you're going to tell me I have say please and thank you....grumble, grumble, whine, moan

and summer league would be hellafun.

and that is not a bad thing. Assuming they could pull off a miracle and go 3/4/8. While dumping Baze, Schröder, 19, 30, 34 and next year's Cleveland 1st. They could then take Doncic (pick 3 to play the 2), JJJ or Mo Bamba (to play next to Collins) and then Young to play the 1. I realize this is a pipe dream because they need A) the trade partners and B) other teams to not outbid them. Basic deals look like this. Baze + 30, 34 for Parsons + 4. Do not argue this please...it is more than fair, I've been over this already. then Dennis + 19 + next year Cleveland 1st (assuming Lebron stays its a useless 20's pick anyway) for 1 of (George Hill, JR Smith, Tristan Thompson or Kevin Love) + 8. (there is some minor changes possible here, especially if Dedmon agrees to opt in to be included in the trade). Imagine 2 years from now starting Young Doncic Prince Collins JJJ or Mo Bamba At least you'd have a light at the end of the tunnel when they grow up.

I've been talking about this for 2 weeks but both Cleveland and NY want to drop salary/bad contracts. These trades will look like the trade I floated of either Bembry or Dorsey + 19 or 30 (depending on what's coming back) for Noah +9 or either Tristan Thompson or JR. Smith +8. We can easily absorb either and especially Cleveland is in Luxury Tax Hell and dropping $14 million in Salary is going to be savings around $50 million or more (depending where their ending salary ends up).

Except for him being listed as the best of an impressive class of power forwards, Ranking near the top in every category and his only weakness was an average post up game. There was some criticism of the Cavs in this pick, but mainly because they had needs at other positions. http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Anthony-Bennett-5866/

If I had to guess, I'd say they are trying to drum up interest in Cleveland, Memphis or Orlando.

Last week I said that things would start to shake out around Thursday. This story is a leak story. Hawks put out that Schröder is available for trade and teams with PG needs then feel fan pressure to make a trade. This is all designed to drum up interest and bidding pressure for Dennis. Dennis is a known commodity and less of a risk than a draft pick. He is the type of player a top 15 team picks up to fill a hole or improve at a position. Cleveland is such a team as well as Miami, New Orleans, Denver, San Antonio, Milwaukee or teams desperate to take a step up....Orlando, Brooklyn, Detroit. Sorry...around Tuesday. Today is that day. Rumors will start flying and most of those rumors will be to drum up trade interest. Fan pressure is the number one way to push a team to make a trade they won't in secret.

AHEM..cough, cough

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Anthony-Bennett-5866/ Mortgaging the farm (especially any trade involving known commodities Prince and Collins on rookie contracts), is a dangerous game.

See former number 1 overall pick Anthony Bennett - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Bennett_(basketball) A can't miss, sure fire #1.

The scary thing with the lottery is building them up in your mind as better than they are. Many of these players were up'ing their stats against lesser teams, or OT games. Greg Oden, Anthony Bennett were considered can't miss. Oden lived in the trainer's room and Bennett was lost in the NBA game....you just never know.

Actually you just made my point. picks 11 and 12 failed to score 8ppg. Then you get down to 13 and Mitchell to find your first 20 ppg scorer year one. The lottery is a crap shoot and every year experts rank these players but they have even less of a clue than we do. The NBA game is just so different.

Okay so not to burst your's or anyone's bubbles but most of these players are 19 year olds. For the first year or two, they are going to be playing a different style of basketball (no zones) and against ridiculous talent. For the first year or two they will be getting abused like a fat kid trying to play tether ball. Before we go mortgaging the farm over potential, consider these stats from last year's top 10 drafted players. 1 Fultz - 7.1, 3.1, 3.8 2. Ball - 10.2, 6.9, 7.2 3. Tatum - 13.9, 5, 1.6 4. Jackson - 13.1, 4.6, 1.5 5. Fox - 11.6, 2.8, 4.4 6 Issac - 12, 7.8, 1.2 7. Markkanen - 15.2, 7.5, 1.2 8. Nitilikina - 5.9, 2.3, 3.2 9. Smith Jr. - 15.2, 3.8, 5.2 10. Collins - 4.4, 3.8, .8 Now tell me...are you trading 19 + Dennis for anyone on this list? Maybe one or 2. How about Prince and 19? Seeing as Prince has better stats than all but maybe Markkanen and Ball...I don't see as trading your best assets are worth the risk. Other than Ayton, all of these players will need time in the league and if you are trading bad for potential, realize you are taking a step back at first. Imagine you mortage'd the farm because you believed in Fultz, Collins, Nitilikina last year...how would you feel today?

Uh, no! Doncic will be a wing in the NBA. The idea of Doncic trying to guard Dennis, Kyrie, Paul, etc (with screens) is Craig Robinson doing ballet in a thong laughable. That I can agree with.

Sorry, trade 2 moves to 3 to work under the cba in order performed and you substituting Baze not Plumlee.

You were dismissed out of hand by a number of posters and since you obviously put thought into this, I wanted to address these trades 1 by 1 so you can see where you went wrong. 1. Denver trades Faried/#14 to ATL for #30/2nd round pick in 2019 On the surface...this trade is fine and fair. Currently, the Hawks sit at $19.5 million under the cap until the Dedmon and Moose situations are figured out. Cap impact +13.8 million. Cap left $5.7 million. (we are ignoring the difference in pick slotting as its minimal salary). 2. Trade T.Prince/#34/ 2019 top5 protected 1st round pick to Memphis for #4 and C. Parsons I threw up a little in my mouth when I read this. The last 22 games of the season Taurean played at an allstar level and entire league noticed (see other thread). Please stop including T. Prince in trades unless it is for taking back a real solid player. In this trade you have us getting 4 (which is good), but then taking back $49 million in bad salary over 2 years (which is very bad), $24 million year one while also taking back $5 million in salary for the pick, while also only sending out 2.5 million in guaranteed salary. Seeing as we only have $5.7 million available, this move puts up $23 million over the cap and violates the CBA (in ways which usually require a call to child protective services). But wait, there's more. You are also giving them another 1st round pick that is only top 5 protected. At the very least it would have to be top 14 protected and even then it is way, way too much to take back $24 million in bad salary. Memphis is desperate to unload Parsons, this is way way too much and violates the CBA. 3. Trade D.Schröder/D.Bembry and #14 to CHI for #7 and Omer Asik Okay so the good news here. Without trade 2, this is actually a good trade from a CBA perspective. However, WTF are you thinking? Asik is "bad salary". Dennis is average salary (he is paid what he is worth). Bembry is a slight commodity (if healthy). This trade actually clears about $4 million in cap space and should be listed 2nd. But the net result of all 3 trades as you listed them puts us $19 million over the CBA. How would I fix this? Trade 3 doesn't require Bembry and would still be a bit of a steal for Chicago. Chicago would need to send back future considerations. So remove Bembry and add a late consideration from Chicago. Trade 2....You are going to have to substitute Plumlee for Prince. In that case, the future 1st we send them should have no protections. So these trades would look like this. (all numbers rounded). 1. On the day of the draft Denver trades Faried/#14 to ATL for #30 and Tyler Dorsey. (Cap impact +$14 mil) 2. Trade Schröder and #14 to CHI for #7, Omer Asik, 2019 2nd round pick. (Cap impact -$2 mil) 3. Trade Baze/#19/ 2019 1st round pick to Memphis for #4 and C. Parsons. (Cap Impact +$6 mil) Under the above scenario, the 3rd trade works because even though it still pushes us just above the cap with the increased salary from the higher picks, the difference in salaries on trade 3 is < 125% +100,000. Your trade ideas were okay in principle, but would not work under the CBA. What I just listed would work (just barely).

Problem is, Doncic will really need to play the 2 in the NBA. NBA PG's are just too fast for him. He's an effective point forward but as a PG, he won't be able to dribble in traffic in the NBA and he won't be able to guard his position. But if you take him as a 2, he could be a generational talent.

see here, next to last game of the year

and FYI, the 2 players everyone else in the league wants on our roster are Prince and Collins who are (IMHO) untouchable. Prince especially is a hot commodity and could easily be spun to get us back into the top 10. We won't do it, but he's our most valuable commodity due to his high production and low salary. Prince's PER stats (for example) are vastly skewed because he often was not guarding his counterpart, but instead the best back court/wing player on the other team. The last 22 games of the year, Prince scored 20 or more points 13 times...30 or more 3 times. He was a very hot commodity once Baze went down and he moved up to the #2 option.

Although Dennis scores and is fairly good with the ball, his team impact is negative for his floor time. He's a +2.5 offensively but a -4.0 defensively for a total impact of a -1.5. The numbers are not encouraging when only focusing on his opponent PG. Although Dennis scores a 19.7 PER on the floor, his opponent scores an 18.5 PER. When you consider opponent PER for starters is always deflated because starters play part of their time against subs, a +1.2 PER for a starter is pretty low. You can look at extreme PG's to see what top tier looks like. Chris Paul's PER at the point is 28.4, while his opponent's is 14.6. A plus 13.8 PER over his opponent. Damian Lillard is 26.5 vs 14.7. John Wall in a bad season was 21.8 vs 17.6 (+4.2 PER). When you consider how dominant Dennis' usage was last year, his numbers don't bear out a positive team impact. He is an average starter at this point in his career and you'd be trading for what his potential could be. If Dennis were injured and lost a step, he'd be useless. His main value is his blazing speed. He is really not developing an all around game at this point. The absolute best trade target is Orlando who is starving for even an average NBA PG.

I floated this idea earlier this week. The big consideration here is that taking back Parsons would put us over the cap and so rules for fair and equitable salary trades kick in. So we would have to send back a bit more than $5 million in salary. It would have to be the 19th pick though because 30 isn't enough (even with Dennis and swallowing the salary) to get 4...pretty close though. You see, the problem with sending back Dennis is although it avoids salary rules, it only clears up 8.5 million in salary for them instead of the full 24 million Parsons is owed. Plus, they already have a point guard, Dennis would have to slide to the 2 for about 1/2 the time he is on the floor and he isn't efficient enough or a good enough defender for that.

No it "isn't" a win. They are knocking on the door of the cap (if they renounce their free agents they are just under the cap) and if they took on Dennis they would be dangerously close to the LT. Whereas the Hawks would be move up 2 slots in the lottery but also 3 slots in the second round and gaining an additional $15 million in cap space to chase free agents. By adding Ayton and another decent lottery pick (or packaging 16 + current players/next years picks to move back into the lottery, the Hawks would have a solid young core to attract playoffs ready free agents. Or by creating this "space", the Hawks could recoup those picks by taking on other people's salary for their draft selections. Think of it this way....if you give up a player and are under the cap, you create space to sign a different player to replace him. If you are the Suns and take on Dennis, you are giving up the chance to sign someone else. You can't think of it as a 1 year scenario. The 3 picks + Dennis for 2 picks is actually a win for the Hawks because of what it clears for them to do later.

It would be more like 1+ 16 + minor salary dump for Dennis + 3 +19 +30. Ideally they would like someone to take Chandler but realize that isn't going to happen and stay in the top 5.

The scary thing about Ayton (scary good) is that he has room to put another 20 or 30 pounds on that frame. He could end up huge and unstoppable in the post in today's small quick NBA.

As well, the difference in college and the pros to play style. Trae was creating most of his own offense in college. Because of the zone defense, there are way less screens set in college. Point guards have to create offense in one on one plays, taking people off the dribble and drawing the zone 5. In the pros, he's going to get more space to operate because of the high usage of the pick and roll. He is a superior passer with extreme vision. If I see a whole in his game in the pros, it will be in his ability to turn the corner after the screen. wow.... *hole, not whole (I am doing this so much more lately...I really need to slow down and feel my age).