thecampster

It's complicated because taking back Parson's puts us over the cap. The only way that trade can be completed is to trade it to be completed in the new calendar year (IE July 1st). In that case, the 4th pick + parsons = about $30 million in salary, which means we'd need to send back $11 million in pick holds (19 + 30 only = $3 million +). Because of our cap situation this year, it couldn't be completed until after the draft...it would be a trade in principle and would go on next year's salary where we are currently $19 million under with holds. Sorry salary + pick holds *

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2017/09/27/orlando-magic-national-reputation-repair/

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/04/hoop-dreams/358627/ and yes...the players know this too!

Sorry...you are the one person I refuse to argue with on the board. For you no amount of proof is enough. For me this isn't even an argument. I refuse to try and find the magic unicorn number of articles and the magic player statement of "I won't sign there, they F'd their players". I presented you with 2 articles that show this already. That being cheap leads to a reputation. Its up to you to believe it or not. Your constant lawyer mentality of trying to destroy facts with imagination is maddening. Here's something to try. Go to a mirror and repeat this and see how it feels. "Hmm, I hadn't considered that before...hmmm....yes there might be truth in that." It'll open a whole new world for you. Because it worked out for Chicago and Houston, doesn't mean that A) it worked for everyone and B) that it didn't mean years and years of player distrust and problems. This straw man argument is exactly the type of lawyer mentality I'm talking about. How about Orlando? Do you see a line of free agents wanting to go to Orlando? How about Sacramento? Lebron is just chomping at the bit to go to Sactown right? See...its easy to do. Pick an outlier and use it to fit your insanity. We can do it all day but sane people on this board don't want to tank endlessly for 10 years hoping for a playoff team. We don't want to be Philly. Philly was so bad for so long that they sniffed the playoffs and got to the second round this year and their fan base lost their damned minds. We started this process because the 2nd round was no longer palatable. Build it right or don't build it at all. Another 3-5 years of losing will leave scars that no 2nd round playoff season will fix.

The biggest issue is in making trades later in the season. If you have too many low salaried players and start taking back players in a salary dump (to get picks), you are limited in what you can do because too much salary can't be matched by players should you want to trade for enough to get you back over the cap. IE...a team wants to trade you a $25 million dollar player and is willing to give up future firsts to dump the contract. The difference between the cap and the salary floor is about $10 million. Being under the floor (lets say 2 million). You'd need to trade back $13 million in salary to make the deal work. But because you have almost no players worth that much, it will require sending back 2 to 3 players. That complicates things and ties your hands. The minimum salary is designed to facilitate future dealings. Going under it is actually a hamstring.

There is no "requirement" that a team spend the NBA team salary minimum. Yes, a team can pay less and at the end of the year have to pay the difference to their players in ratio to their team salary percent. Its just a really stupid idea for a myriad of reasons. The biggest of which is having incoming players being overpaid to meet that threshold (or having to do roster tricks like the one Philly did to save a buck).

But the Philly article shows you just one problem with hanging out below the minimum salary floor. Philly had to engage in shenanigans to get above the floor. The salary claim "showed" more salary then they actually paid and therefore screwed their own players out of salary they should have been paid (about $7 million of it). If you don't think that (cheating your players out of $7 million) didn't do bad things to Philly's reputation and didn't have repercussions, then I'm not sure there is anything I can say that would make you understand that water is wet, birds fly and that insanity is just a state of mind.

and here is your 76ers article https://www.libertyballers.com/2015/2/25/8105597/the-sixers-have-passed-the-cap-floor-and-saved-millions

Here, educate yourself... https://goldengatesports.com/2014/09/24/golden-state-warriors-turnaround/

Golden State prior to 2014.....Philly 2 years ago.

I'm sorry you don't see it but I am done trying to explain it to you. If the horse doesn't want to drink, there is no point in making him a margarita.

I know I've explained this to you before so let me try a different tact. Being too far under the cap complicates things when making trades later down the road. Although the minimum salary floor results in a tax (dollar for dollar) and is therefore not a financial mess on the surface, it does create a mess later when trying to sign other players, make trades and signing outside talent. It poses no threat to signing your own players but it can create a reputation in the league with players from other teams and it can create a problem in your cap later when all of those rookie salaries need to be resigned for real deals. The minimum team salary rules are as much a protection for the individual players as they are for the team of players. . As for the posters asking about why 34 is worth more than 30. If I am trading with a team that needs to "take something back" (nba rules state you must send something back), the cap hit for 34 is much less than the cap hit for 30 if you sign the player. But 34 also is not a guaranteed salary and it changes value when signing free agents later. The guaranteed salaries are for 3 years + 1. The non-guaranteed salaries are not so restrictive.

34 is worth more than 30. 30 is guaranteed money for about 2x minimum vet salary. 34 is 1/2 the cost for effectively the same player.

It isn't about who we include, it will be about who we take back? There are teams that don't want to wait on a pick to develop. Those teams would be Dallas, Orlando, Cleveland, NY. Those are your targets. Anyone after 9 isn't worth the trade risk.

Don't get wrapped up in your own perception. The Magic, Knicks, Cavs and a few other teams would love to have Dennis and to drop other salary. Despite his issues, Dennis can score and for teams with playoff talent but no PG, Dennis is a gem. 25 teams in the league would see nearly zero value in Dennis...but we don't need 25 to value him...we just need 1. My best bet is Orlando. They are desperate for PG play and would like to unload Biyombo (owed $17 million). Dennis +19 would absolutely get you Biyombo +6. You might need a minor tweak or two (like throwing in 34) but you could swing it. Hawks have plenty of cap room and Dennis is an instant fix for the Magic. Dennis + 19 would also get you Noah + 9 but I think that might be a bit much to give up.

Let me clarify that. If we draft all 4 slots and Dedmon walks, we are in a bind financially.....we'll have too much money for 1 player. We are better suited to draft 3 so we can split the $25 ish million we'd have on 2 players....paying out about $15 million of that so we are above the team minimum but that's it.

There is no way we draft all 4 slots. We will make at least 1 draft night trade.

Right here....this is good info....good work.

Also if you check my capulator thread. I gave a basic formula for value in trading picks. It is not perfect because picks also include tying up salary for a player who may not pan out.

I covered this very question in another thread. It'll take 2 days and 3 boxes of donuts, but I recommend you read through the consolidate draft thread. Despite the yelling, threats to genitalia and repetitive rants, there is some very good information on pretty much every topic and player discussed in the other threads. Here's the basics. Memphis doesn't need a PG but would take 19, the Cleveland pick next year, 34 and player like Bembry/Dorsey. Orlando, Chicago, NY, Cleveland could all use Dennis and their picks could be had for Dennis + 19 (maybe 30 if you include a prospect or take back bad salary). For example, Dennis +30 to NY for 9 + Noah. New York desperately wants to unload Noah. They need to make the playoffs this year. I detailed a plan to get 3 picks in the top 10 but it would require giving up all of our 3 picks after 3 this year and the Cleveland pick next year...taking back some salary and giving up Dennis and or Bembry/Dorsey.

So other thread discussion, I got an idea. The common NBA trade. If you are going to propose a signing or trade....it should fit into the common NBA categories. Signings Type 1 - 1 year filler. (Usually player idea to up his value. These deals almost always benefit the team.) Type 2 - 1-2 years with an option. (Usually team idea for flexibility. These deals almost always benefit the team). Type 3 - 4 year. (Usually player idea to lock in his value. Teams tend to overpay. These deals almost always benefit the player). So example - Muscala has little options of getting a multi-year deal for more than $5 million a year outside of the Hawks. He will most likely exercise his 1 year option. Dedmon has multiple potential locations for a 2+1 deal and 4 year deals. He will most likely opt out and sign elsewhere (here is also a possibility). Trades Type 1 - Player for Player. These deals almost always are to fill a need, reduce years and change salary requirements. Often these trades involve trading a player with more salary for less salary to free up cap space or reduce the Luxury Tax. Type 2 - Player for Players + picks. These deals are almost always giving up a good player with a higher salary for multiple players with lower salaries and a pick to sweeten the deal. These deals always involve cap implications. If proposing these trades....explain the value to each team. LT saving, cap saving, future siging, etc. Type 3 - Picks for Picks. A very easy (but complicated rule) here. Pick value = 61 - pick number (p) Trade value = P1 = P2 +1/4 P3. Example 3rd pick = 58. 34th pick = 27. 6th pick = 55, 22nd pick = 38. So 58+(27/4) =64.75 pv. 55+(34/4)=63.5. These trades would be close but team two would probably have to add a late second. In this scenario, team 1 is giving up more. This isn't perfect but a good formula to use.

Well good news (and reason I went Kia) is they have a 100,000 year warranty. Bad news is I'm a bit of an Asperger's Syndrome jerk. I want my car, not the loaner. I want my smell, my radio settings. "My" dealer is almost 30 miles away and I'm not looking forward to going up there in Friday traffic to pick it up.

One last note when looking at rookie salaries...they are inflated for the cap hold until signed. Figure that in to your calculations.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q84 This link starts at the parts about the financial aspects of trades.