thecampster

Because if he is signed by another team for the same or more than he makes now (which given his low salary is a given), the salary is set off. https://moorebasketball.com/2016/01/19/how-it-works-the-waiver-procedure-and-contract-buyouts/ "The set-off right gives teams the ability to offset the money they owe a waived player and the money on their cap sheet in the event that player signs with another professional team.[6] For every year that the team is responsible for the remaining salary on a terminated contract, the team can set-off the amount of money the player is earning on another professional contract, subject to a formula in the CBA. The formula takes the player’s new salary and subtracts the minimum salary for either a rookie (for rookies) or a second year player (for all players other than rookies). If the outcome is positive, the team can offset the player’s dead money cap hit by that amount divided by two. For example, if a team waives a player and has $8M of dead money on their cap sheet in 2015-16 as a result, and that player signs a contract with a Chinese Basketball Association team for $2M in 2015-16, the team can set-off the amount they owe the player by $577,471,[7] and thus owe him only $7,422,529 for the that season. Although this right to set-off does benefit a team in most cases it will be a very limited amount of money, as demonstrated above."

All this means is that Plumlee is ahead of schedule in his recovery.

After much thought and reflection Dennis 19/3/7 Baze 10/3/3 Prince - 14/6/3 Ersan - 11/7 Moose - 8/6 Collins - 10/7 Bembry - 12/4/4 Dedmon - 8/6 Plumlee - Traded by February Marco - Traded by February The rest insignificant Of everyone listed here, I believe the wildcard is Collins. Also because of the up and down play style they are bound to play, I anticipate one or more of these players to miss significant time.

Most of the ISO plays referenced are actually just missed PnR plays that he took himself.

No I didn't. I earlier stated in the thread that I would consider an improvement from Dennis if he just averaged 2 more assists per game and stated that if he was focusing on scoring it would be detrimental to overall team development and play. It was insinuated I was a negative Hawks fan and hated Dennis. The retardation is in the inability to see that when I clearly stated "What I think disturbs me most about your list is you're comparing a 23 year old, very immature Dennis to pretty much every great passer in the NBA. The kid is 23....throwing the franchise on his back at this age is a bit premature. At no point have I said "Dennis is terrible, throw the bum out". What I have said is he is still maturing and I refuse to judge him as a complete package until he is at least 25." Instead of giving him tools to succeed like the other listed players have, we took away everything he has and replaced it with rookies and role players. This is a tall task, even for Bud-U. Just be prepared.

So on this list I see 2 NBA champs. 1 of them had Lebron, the other had Thompson, Green and most recently Durant. Additionally, in this list Dennis most favorably relates to whom??? Who has Dennis' skillset? Again, I'm just being realistic here. Last season Dennis was 18/6/3 (rounded). To expect him at 24 to take a huge leap forward while not sacrificing efficiency is crazy. Let's use Conley as your example. Conley at 23. 13.7/6.5/3. His next 5 seasons. 12.7/6.5/2.5 14.6/6.1/2.1 17.2/6.0/2.9 15.8/5.4/3.0 15.3/6.1/2.9 20.5/6.3/3.5 Disturbingly consistent and took his "next step" scoring at 29 not 23. Steph Curry 23 = 18.6/5/8/3.9 24 14.7/5.3/3.4 He's 25-27 and averaged around 23.5 ppg but takes his big leap at 28 to 30.1 ppg then down to 25.3. @23.8 and 25.3 he wins the NBA championship but at 30.1 the team is flawed and loses. Kyrie did nothing without Lebron. Boston felt so flawed they added Horford and flamed out when their still existent flaws showed. What I think disturbs me most about your list is you're comparing 23 year old, very immature Dennis to pretty much every great passer in the NBA. The kid is 23....throwing the franchise on his back at this age is a bit premature. At no point have I said "Dennis is terrible, throw the bum out". What I have said is he is still maturing and I refuse to judge him as a complete package until he is at least 25.

You make a thread and cry at the results....geesh.

One thing you also need to realize, is every "scoring" pg right now in Dennis' league assists wise are much stronger than he is. The kid is talented but if he keeps throwing his body at centers 10 times a game he's going to have a very short career and eventually be drinking his dinner through a straw.

The more Dennis is scoring, the more the defense is focusing him. He'll be forcing it. The purpose of his scoring and penetration is to open up opportunities for others. If Dennis' scoring really goes up another 3 points per game (considering he already led us in shot attempts last year), it will probably take another 3+ shot attempts to get there. This means less shot attempts for others and very stagnant defense. The true improvement from Dennis would be another 2 assists per game. I'd love to see him go to 10 but I don't think some people understand how absolutely impressive 8 assists would be in today's game. 8 Assists per game would have been good for 8th in the NBA last year. Harden led the league with 11.2, Wall at 10.7. In order for Dennis to take the next step, making his teammates better is the next logical move. And by the way, I am not the typical Atlanta fan and I'm not liking your snide comments on every reply. If you can't win with logic and facts revert to name calling. If you want me to take you seriously, up your game.

See, you had me till right there. Dennis shouldn't be looking to "score more". The increased attention should lead to more finishing opportunities for others..be that dunks for Collins or spot up jumpers for everyone. A more realistic line for Dennis is the same 18 ppg but 8 assists. If Dennis is scoring 21+, we're in very real trouble.

uhm Dennis took 1.3 more shots per game than Millsap but scored 2 tenths of a point less per game. How is that more efficient?

I see great similarities between Childress and Bembry's games. I see Bembry as an even better defender and Childress being a bit more smooth. In the end, I am hoping Bembry discovers his shot. If Bembry could become a 38% from 3, 44% from the field guy, I believe he could become a 2 way player at 16-5-5. This was never Childress' ceiling. A better question might have been, what was the impact of holding onto Woody too long as coach and not giving Drew more time. The team which won 60 games was effectively Drew's squad. Bud just fell into them and we've seen a slow decline since. I liked Larry Drew and I think the bigger impact was giving up on Drew and giving Woody 1 year too many.

Go ahead..tell me I'm lying

A Kapernick Emoji A Peoriabird/Hazer Emoji A Hotlanta Emoji A Hawksfanatic after a stupid trade proposal/cap analysis emoji A Lurker talking about Dwight Howard emoji A Vol4ever emoji and lastly An emoji for everyone reading a Diesel making another 4 way trade to rid us of Marvin and whomever else he doesn't like this season emoji.

Hey look...they have a Bembry emoji

Dennis is on a very reasonable contract and is very productive. He needs to improve in a few areas but the difference is not worth the salary + the picks.

I don't get "hate". I see flaws in his game, though most of them are due to tunnel vision. I've consistently said the verdict on Dennis should wait until he's 25. He is still learning the NBA game and that takes patience at the PG position. It has the highest learning curve.

http://mikecheck.blog.myajc.com/2017/07/20/hawks-not-a-good-team-but-could-be-very-good-in-one-area/

Let me clarify what that means. In order to replace the production of just those 3 players, you need 3 players each playing 30.1 minutes per game and each averaging 15.4 points, 7.9 rebounds and 2.5 assists per game. We might have gotten 1 but we didn't get 3.

And yet you still need to replace his production. The 3 players lost accounted for 46.1 points, 23.6 rebounds, 7.4 assists per game in a total of 90.3 minutes. I don't see that magically appearing with this group.

Assuming Bud plays him. Look, its all moving parts at this point. I don't expect Bellinelli to be here in March, not sure about Plumlee (I believe he is auditioning to be healthy enough to trade), but as currently constructed...no...they aren't winning 30 games.

Okay Sunshine, lets see if I can lay this out without whining like the little girl my wife wishes I was. Dwight Howard. Generous debate on this board exists as to whether Dwight was net positive for the Hawks last year or not. What isn't debatable is his statistics. He was a 13/13 guy last year (rounded) in just under 30 minutes of play time. He has been replaced by Dedmon and Plumlee. Now the curious player to me here isn't Dedmon but Plumlee. When healthy, Plumlee has been a very intriguing player who has made his teams better. The problem is health. Dedmon played 17.5 minutes last year and averaged 5.1 points and 6.5 rebounds in that time. If we extrapolate his stats out to 29.7 minutes per game he comes back as 8.66/11. Plumlee average 2.4 and 3.2 in just over 13 minutes of work. If we added Dedmon and Plumlee's numbers together they = a little more than 30 minutes a game and equal 7.5/8.7. Statistically, Replacing Howard with Dedmon and Plumlee is a net loss of 5-6 points and 1.5-4 rebounds per game depending on how you look at their stats. Average it to 5.5/2.75 loss daily on the offensive end. Paul Millsap. Millsap is a consistent 18/8 guy in this league for the last few years. He plays average to above average defense and is a phenomenal team guy and honestly was one of my least favorite Hawks. I just didn't see him moving the needle despite his consistent play. We replaced him primarily with a player that I believe in 4 -5 years will be better than Millsap ever was...that said...he is a rookie. On the depth chart, Paul is replaced by Ersan and Ersan is replaced by Collins. It is going to be hard to quantify the offensive difference here, but I believe it is fair to say that Ersan is slightly below Paul (say 2 points, 1 rebound) and Collins will be slightly below Ersan as a rookie. A fair assessment of year 1 of Collins would be that we get probably 4 less points and 2 less rebounds from the PF position. In my humble opinion, Millsap didn't move the needle and Ersan/Collins are intangibles players. So it is really hard to gauge this, but it is safe to assume it is a minor net loss for Ersan to replace Paul and Collins to replace Ersan at the NBA level team concept (at least for the first 40 games). Tim Hardaway. At the SG spot, Hardaway measured a +6 PER against his opponents last year. It was at the 2 that he shined. You are replacing that with Marco Bellinelli. Who is a fine NBA player in his own right. But in every statistical measure, both offensively and defensively, THjr is a better 2 guard. There is no debate. Not including the ridiculously small sample from Tavares, Hardaway was our best player last year in simple rating from 82games.com. He held a 60% win share at the 2 guard. His clutch statistics are off the chart with a 66% win share and a 31.2 points per 48 minutes in clutch time. His clutch time efg% was 64.8%. Statistically speaking, Hardaway was a super clutch performer last year that won the Hawks games when others couldn't. Bellinelli by contrast, held a -3.3 PER at the 2 guard last year. That is a 9.3 PER swing from Hardaway. All of his clutch statistics are a significant downgrade from THj, but the most obvious of which is his 11.2 less points per 48 in the clutch. His net points per 100 possessions is -.6. Hardaways is a +9.5. There is no arguing that the Hawks took a huge step back with Bellinelli. If you argued that the loss of Dwight coupled with his replacements cost a modest 2 point/game swing. That the loss of Millsap causes a modest 2 ppg swing and the same with Hardaway (it is going to be much, much more). The Hawks go from -.8 PPG to -6.8 ppg this year. Now surprises happen, but last year the Nets held a -6.7 and the Lakers were -6.9 per game. The Nets finished with 20 wins and the Lakers with 26. My prediction seems spot on. I am not being a negative Nancy, I'm being real. When you tank, it takes a while to grow. I am just hoping all the tankers are still posting here in February. Now couple all of this with the loss of Calderon, Humpries and Sefalosha....all who added wins to the Hawks last year in some small fashion and you have a young squad that either must really step up or a whole lot of other teams need to experience a flu epidemic.

Holy crap...I'm a whiner? I'm telling my mom on you.

2 things.. 1) You're not my daddy, quit telling me what to do. 2) It's a message board, a place for opinions and discussions. Have to have a thick skin if you are going to post on it. Part of being a fan is being disappointed when your team goes into tank mode. Ask any Cubs fan. You spend 100 years whining and moaning but win that 1 world series and you're like "SCOREBOARD".

I'm seeing 20-25 as currently constructed.