thecampster

So let me get this straight. You think a player who has 3...count em, 3 total years in the league has peaked? So last year, Dennis peaked? Al Horford peaked in 2010? Kobe peaked at 22? Hardaway has 62 career NBA starts and you believe he is done developing? Its a new WTF moment with you and Lurker daily. At the exact same age, term of development, Kent Bazemore averaged 5.2 points per game. Golden State and the Lakers both gave up on him the year before. Last year he averaged 11 points and got a $15 million dollar contract. But you are trying to tell me that Hardaway's ceiling is maxed and he isn't going to get more than 12 million after scoring 14.5 / game last year. Keep the opinions coming. They are fascinating. I especially like the ones every year where you swear you have inside knowledge about who the Hawks are acquiring at the trade deadline.

Look man, don't get hung up on one name. 2 are going to Philly, the only question is who.

Philly has $25 million more in theoretical cap space than any other team in the league next year and in reality, nobody is within $40 million. Most of the teams even within $25 to $30 million have millions more tied up in their own free agents. Less than 5 teams in the league can offer another team's free agent a max contract this year. Philly can offer 2.

Point of the post. Philly is the team that is going to do something crazy because they are going to overpay someone to go there. Someone is going to get a max contract from Philly because nobody, absolutely nobody in the league has the money to spend that Philly does right now. You can't tell me if the Hawks' payment ceiling for Millsap starts at $25 million per and Philly throws the max at him that he'd say no? $65 million more is worth playing in a hell hole for some people. Philly just has 2 find 2 star level players to take their money. Millsap is a target because (as discussed earlier) Atlanta can't offer him the max without putting themselves in LT jeopardy year after next.

Can you define "limited ceiling" (as in what it means to you)?

It will be Philly. The last few seasons Philly has had to pay the minimum salary tax for being under the cap. It could easily be perceived as wasted money. Local talk in Philly is how that is wasted roster/salary space and that they aren't that far away now from their young talent booming. Philly needs to make a splash to make their tank worth while. They are going to sign 2 FA this off-season and grossly overpay for 1. Philly's current salary structure would be terrifying if anyone wanted to actually sigh there. Jerryd Bayless - $9,000,000 Gerald Henderson - $9,000,000 (Team Option) Ben Simmons - $6, 168,840 Joel Embiid - $6,100,266 Jahlil Okafor - $4,995,120 Nik Stauskas - $3,807,146 Dario Saric - $2,422,560 Justin Anderson - $1,579,440 Timothe Luwawu - $1,386,600 Richaun Holmes - $1,014,000 (Team Option) Robert Covington - $1,087,745 (Team Option) TJ McConnell - $1,014,746 (Team Option) Shawn Long - $1,312,611 (Team Option) Over $35 million guaranteed, another $14 million in team options. Even if they invoked every option, they're sitting at $49 million with $52 million in available cap space and if their FA target is a PF (see Millsap/Griffin), they could move more salary in moving Okafor, Simmons. If they declined their options, they have 7 open roster slots with $66 million cap space (or more) enough (for example) to sign Kyle Lowry, Gordon Hayward + have plenty to sign needed vets. The problem is convincing those stars to go there without engaging in background collusion. But its possible. You could see a lineup next year in Philly with some imposing names lined up with Embiid and their other up and coming youngsters.

Just asking you to think this through. Dwight is not getting traded before the season starts. He is currently on a 2 year contract. He has a ton of value to a contending team in the right situation. My best guess is that if Dwight is moved it is at the trade deadline this year or next to a contender for youth/picks. Dwight is a movable asset because next year (18/19) he'll be an expiring (short term problem). Teams like the Bulls, Portland, OKC could really see Dwight as a "get them over the top" type of a guy Feb next year. You hold on to him and take back that team's 1 year trash in exchange for their youth/picks. Dwight is going to pay off for the Hawks in the next 18 months, just maybe not in the way you would hope. Best guess is trade deadline 2019 but could be this coming year (2018) too. If you move him this summer, you will get less for him....much less.

Throw in that THj is 3 years younger than Baze and the argument that Baze is a better investment than Hardaway is pretty impossible to make.

I'm not arguing to argue...not even close. There are a myriad of reasons why the Hawks would prefer Timmy over Baze. If the Hawks can find a buyer for Baze without just trading for a 2nd, then they will move him and give Tim similar money. Tim is younger (almost 3 full years), Tim has 1 less year in the NBA (meaning cheaper contracts going forward). Tim is taller/longer/with better all around offense/ball handling. Tim's 82games.com metrics show he is a much better defender than he gets credit for (for example Baze's Opponent PER at SG/SF 15.4/14.9, Hardaway's 11.6/14.2). THj is just better at every facet of the game and his simple rating shows it (+8.8 over Baze). A max salary for Hardaway would be 22 million. He isn't coming anywhere close to that. But what you and seemingly everyone else is forgetting is that Tim is a really young player. He was held to a ridiculously high standard these playoffs against arguably a top 3 SG in the league in Beal. In a league where good shooting guards are hard to come by and 2 way shooting guards are almost non-existent, Hardaway projects to be a top 10 shooting guard in the next few years. $14 million is a real possibility and I'd stick my neck out and say $12 million is a given.

There are approximately 12 teams that can afford Tim at 14-15 per. About 8 of them could really use a scoring 2 guard. And sorry but Moose is a max $5 mil/per player right now. You really need to understand the mechanics of the cap here. There are about 12 teams right now with between $10 and $30 million in cap room. Philly being the exception has more room than the 15 worst teams cap wise combined. There are approximately 20 tier 1 and 2 free agents out there right now. About 1/2 of those will resign with their own teams. In the list of valued free agents, Moose comes in at about 50th. He is a 4/5 hybrid...too stiff to play stretch 4 as a starter, too weak to play 5 and bang. He's a backup big and backup bigs in this market get $4-5 million. Let me explain it this way. The NBA is richest/poorest in the following order. PF - Most talent PG - 2nd most talent C - 3rd most SG - 4th most SF - 5th most What I mean by this is that their are 20 starting, star quality PF's in the league who are a pickem as starters. They get boards, points and even shoot 3's. Very few superstars, but tons of starter quality talent. There are also a ton of starter quality point guardss in the league. A few are top tier but the next tier is good and there are many of them. There are 10-15 solid starting centers in the NBA. Almost every team has a guy who is at the least a F/C starting at center and few teams have crap there. Maybe 10 SG's and 7-10 SF's. There are some really bad SF's starting in the NBA right now. Thabo started for 50 games, just for defense. Moose is a F/C type. No team would want him as a starting 4 and very few could consider him as a starting 5. You thinking he's getting 10 million + is starter money. Moose is not a starter. He is an energy, 15 minute backup max. Or he adds 30 lbs of muscle and becomes a goon....those are his options.

WTF would you trade a 23 year old PG in a rebuild?

I'll bite...can you lay out a statistical comparison where Al = beast, Dwight = disappointment? Especially considering Al makes more per year.

You clown yourself.

Okay so just to be a jerk here, I did some really deep digging for some real usage stats. All this complaining about Dwight. Do you realize that he only had the ball in his possession for a total of 90 minutes last year? http://stats.nba.com/players/touches/#!?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=1610612737&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1&PerMode=Totals Thabo Sefalosha handled the ball only 9 minutes less than Dwight. Kent Bazemore 27 more minutes. Delaney 117 more minutes than Dwight. Hell, Delaney handled the ball 57 more minutes than Paul Millsap. Kris Humphries barely played, but he managed 30 minutes. Now think of how much of that 90 minutes (5400 seconds) was Dwight grabbing his 940 rebounds. Dwight handled the ball for less than 6 seconds per rebound he got. Quit your bellyaching and find a new target.

Reality check, Dwight is credited with 2.3 turnovers/game. Some of those are attributed to passes at the ankles, and the normal T/O when you pull down a rebound and it gets stripped. Did the big feller make mistakes, yes. But not a day goes buy where I don't see a post where you trash the man. You specifically stated turn overs from spamming the post. We've already gone over how many shot attempts per game he got and how many of those are self created. Are you really bent out of shape over 2.3 turnovers per game? Using your logic, If 2.3 to/game is terrible, then James Harden's 5.7 turnovers per game means he should be out of the league. Russell Westbrook's 5.4 per game are team destroyers. Demarcus Cousin's 3.7 /game makes him 50% worse than Dwight. Brook Lopez at 2 inches taller than Dwight, with longer arms and committing 2.5 turnovers per game is better despite getting only 5.4 rebounds per game. Do you realize how ridiculous your arguments are? Nobody cares "why" someone gets rebounds. If he/she is rebounding at a rate of 1 every 2.33 minutes...I want him. Demarcus Cousins, who in case you missed it is bigger, totaled 11 rebounds/game last year in 5 more minutes per game than Dwight. Cousins averages 1 rebound every 3.12 minutes. I truly believe you don't understand how special what Dwight did last year was despite the insanely low usage. Of the 4 players who all out rebounded Dwight last year, all played the same or more minutes. 2 shot worse...yes you heard that right, worse from the free throw line. Dwight had more assists than all 4. Yes, in a league of 450+ players, only 4 out-rebounded him and they all played more minutes. There are plenty of "big" people in the league. Rebounding is effort, awareness. Dwight Howard is 1 inch and 20 lbs heavier than Al Horford. Do you honestly think 1 inch and 20 lbs automatically equals 5.9 more rebounds in 3 less minutes per game? I mean come on. Rebounding and defense win championships. We saw what happened when we had a soft center the last 7 years. Cleveland destroyed us. Yes, stats matter. Especially efficiency stats, PER vs Opponent PER, etc. They are measures of what win basketball games. Flashy out of control players, pretty boy big men standing 20 feet from the basket, gimmick offenses might look good to the eye, but they lose every time. Solid defense creating rebounding / fast break opportunities have won basketball games since the good doctor first hung a peach basket....and it always will. 2nd chance opportunities are the biggest momentum shifts in basketball. Rebounders put that to bed.

Attribute this quote, "a lie told once remains a lie, but a lie told a thousand times becomes the truth". (see bottom for the source) Just keep telling yourself that a player who gets 12+ rebounds a game in 29 minutes and who shoots 63% from the field is a bad thing and eventually, you will believe it. Answer: Joseph Goebbels - Minister of Propaganda, Germany - 1933-1945.

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2017/5/22/15672372/nba-free-agency-2017-paul-millsap-market It seems like this dude has been reading my don't resign Millsap for more than $25 million posts (he used my number) and then put the most positive spin possible on teams getting him. I might have to write him a strongly worded letter about what signing Millsap would do to Boston's cap/team in 2018 and beyond.

Splitter + Scott is a lot of trash for Indy to take back for 3 picks in the 2nd half of the 1st round. There was a reason I said Baze. He is at least considered by most teams as a solid rotation guy.

I might be the biggest Taurean Prince fan on this board, but you trade for sure things when can. If offered Butler for Baze/Prince the the two future 1sts and 19, you couldn't find me a pen fast enough. Butler is the kind of player that people watch and say, man I wish I had me one of those. Butler is the kind of player other free agents want to play with. Butler is the kind of player you surround with 3 point shooters....not demand he be one. Every championship team...each and every 1 has a guy who you look at and say...I need a bucket and he goes and gets you one. There are less than 15 of those guys in the league and Butler is one. Some teams have 2. You put Butler on this team and Paul Millsap just got infinitely better. You don't have to double team Dennis, You don't have to double Paul or Dwight but a clear out for Butler demands help no matter who is guarding him. Butler is the kind of player that other teams scheme around. With the Hawks now, you pick your poison. Add Butler and there is no choice, you start by stopping him.

Sorry, but Splitter + Hardaway = 10.5 million. Not enough salary to trade for Paul George. They were still 2.6 million (ish) apart.

Melo is a defensive black hole. 115 is defense with Melo on court, 108 = off court. No thank you. Offensively on court = +3.8. So yes Melo helps an offense but he kills a defense. Melo doesn't help anyone win. Offense: Pts per 100 Poss. 110.0 106.3 +3.8 Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. 115.4 108.8 +6.6 Compare this with THj. The team is .4 points better with THj on the floor defensively but 9.1 points better offensively. Offense: Pts per 100 Poss. 110.6 101.5 +9.1 Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. 106.9 107.3 -0.4 THj is considered to be a poor defender (mostly based on reputation) but these charts show the team is slightly better with him on the floor defensively and he's 3x the impact on offense as Melo. Consider Melo from 3 years ago. Offense: Pts per 100 Poss. 108.7 96.5 +12.2 Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. 113.7 110.4 +3.4 Here you'd have an argument that his offense mitigates the poor defense but he's been trending worse and worse for years. A change of scenery at his age isn't going to make it better.

You have 5 1st round picks in the next 3 years(ish) + the first pick in the 2nd this year. You already have Prince, Bembry, Dennis as young players. When you roll those salary commits into the next 3 years it comes out to a payroll of about 35-45 million in 9 players. Which means you have approximately 65 million to spend on 6 other players in 2020. Do you really want one of those 6 to be a 35 year old Sap at $40 million? Think about this and Nameste.

The problem with the report is the Hawks were at/over the cap all year and so any deal for Paul George would have required Indy to take back over $13 million in Salary. Looking at last year's roster, only one player comes to mind...Baze. They probably didn't balk at the 4 picks part of the trade, they probably balked at what they had to take back. Which is why it was a full 4 picks.

http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/dwight_howard_says_he_was_told_by_lakers_to_stay_away_from_kareem/s1_127_23989810 as Dwight said...check both sources.

How the hell did that just happen? Boston has Al Horford, don't they? How the hell did they just lose by 44 at home? OMG someone please remind me how awesome Al is, how we miss him and how he is the missing piece to get Boston over the hump. My faith is being shattered tonight.