thecampster

quoting myself from a different thread Offensively, Scott can play the 3, 4, 5. Defensively, Scott lacks the quicks to guard 3's and the size to muscle up 5's. Defensively he's a 4.

I think it is safe to say Korver/Carroll will split a lot of time at the 3 but Scott has earned time at the 3/4. Johnson was not beating Scott out as a team minded, team concept player.

Jalen Rose - Career seasons in the NBA - 13. Career NBA games played - 923. Career points scored, 13320. Career FG% .443. ATLscrubLove - Career NBA stats...0. Whose opinion is laughable?

Throughout the preseason they haven't been playing Billups much or Jennings (out with impacted wisdom tooth) and they have been much more competitive than the Hawks. This forum poster has absolutely no credibility due to his Smith hate. Drummond/Monroe/Smith > Horford/Millsap/(Korver or Carroll) in almost every category. Defensively, Detroit will be stout and that will keep you in every game.

I have a very high BB IQ as well. I also have 50+ extra pounds on my mid section and a bum ankle. Korver can't defend anyone 1 on 1. Horford is undersized at his position, Sap is short for his position with average lateral quicks. They are a defensive nightmare. Smart???? sure! But they are going to get killed inside by 3/4 of the teams in the NBA. Compare Atlanta's frontline, just size wise, with Detroit. Horford - 6'10", 250 --- Drummond - 6'11", 279 Millsap - 6'8", 258 --- Monroe - 6'11", 253 Korver - 6'7", 212 --- Smith - 6'9", 225 (lol) The Hawks give up height and or weight at each of the 3 positions, along with vertical leap, youth and athleticism. To Detroit's front line the Hawks give up 37 lbs (assuming Smith isn't 245) and 6 inches. This is just one team. Look at Cleveland, NY, NJ, CHI. We are small, very small. Brand can only play so many minutes and when he does, one of these guys goes out. We are going to get killed inside and on the boards.

Well someone else has come around to my 30-35 win season.

You sir, are a blind homer. Let me put this in terms you may understand. Two years ago, the Hawks spent 70+ million in salary and bumped right up against the salary cap. The team went 40-26 ( a 49 win pace). Last year the Hawks spent right below the Luxury Tax (about $66.5 million) in salary. The team spent 4 million less and won 44 games. This year they are at about 56.4 million, another $10.1 million less. In the NBA, you don't shed 14-15 million in salary and get better except in extreme circumstances like the retirement of a bad contract. I realize you may like Sap but he is worse in every statistical category except FG% where he is better by 2%. I know Schröder is going to be amazing but he is still a skinny rookie and over 82 games a significant downgrade over Harris. Antić is a downgrade over Zaza based on NBA experience alone. We have no Ivan. You have a roster full of people who just got guaranteed contracts and little to play for. You have conference teams in Detroit, Chicago, Washington, Cleveland who should all be better. Takes off your blinders and realize what this roster is. Ferry is aiming to get into the lottery, hoping our picks overseas mature and is already in 2014 mode. FYI Cleveland scares the crap out of me. If Bynum and Varejao are both health and with a healthy Irving, they will be very, very good.

I ever so miss what Deke/Laettner brought on the court as a tandem. If you ever get a chance, go back and watch games from this team. You will never see two players so willing to make up for each other's flaws. I can still visual Deke in no man's land under the basket and Laettner running through players to get in Deke's line of sight for a pass out. At the same time I vividly remember Laettner knowing he was unable to guard a big and having the smarts to funnel him toward Deke's right hand for the block. Deke would always leave his center and find him with Laettner repeatedly leaving to box out the opposing center. Those two very 1 way players played fantastically off each other's strengths. Go back and watch that team again. I believe that team in its prime could be a 2 seed today.

The article you are referencing discussed how Brand was great at position defense, using his body as a tool. When a player is in the right position, they are able to take advantages of mistakes other players make. For this reason, Brand may be on his way out as a pro, but he'll make a lucrative living as a big man coach. Early in his career, Brand was a much more athletic guy. But injuries forced him to learn to play his position without the great athleticism when he was a 20/10 guy. Many guys in his position fold up the tent (see Shawn Kemp). Brand dedicated himself to the craft of position defense. He was always a good athletic defender. After the legs came back post injury, Brand found himself to be a better player because of it. If he had learned those lessons 5 years into his career, he would have been in the conversation of one of the best ever. Brand is a great example of woulda/shoulda/coulda players. He is a great guy and I would bet becomes a coach one day.

Offense - Scott can play 3, 4 and even some 5 (limited). Defense - Scott is a 4. He lacks the lateral quicks and ups to stay with/chase most 3's. He lacks the pure bulk and positioning to challenge 5's. This is why his rebounding numbers are soft and he slid some on draft night. He lacks the hops to out jump guys for rebounds and the bulk to out muscle them. Scott is a very, very, very smart player which is how he was so effective in college. Every team needs a Mike Scott on the floor. It is funny that Scott and Josh Smith were my favorite players because they played the same position and their games are total opposites. Scott gets it done without superior athleticism but instead is constantly doing the right thing. Smith gets it done on pure athleticism and more times than not does before he thinks. Many times it was mad science but always amazing to watch (good and bad). I love Scott as a Hawk and believe he can be a very good pro (better than Sap) if Bud takes his lumps and puts him on the floor in the regular rotation. Scott will need to work on his body and tenacity but the rest, the mental part/work ethic he is miles ahead of other 2nd year players.

If Scott is not in the regular lineup game 1, I will not be happy and Bud's still on the sauce.

We shot so poorly because we couldn't get the ball inside on a bribe.

LOL that is so untrue. Josh actually would take one aspect of his game and work on it every year. Last year for example was conditioning, he ran in the hills outside his place in California every day. Two years ago was post moves.

Side note...overall he was 48th in scoring for the entire league last year.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/stats/byposition?pos=SF,PF,F,FC&conference=NBA&year=season_2012&sort=38&qualified=1 To be fair, the following stats include all players who play any forward position at any time (fyi Horford is listed in the list). Sap is listed 22nd in scoring among forwards. 25 in FG%. 23rd in RPG. 14th in assists 7th in Steals and 21st in blocks. Granted a few SF sneak onto the list as do a few Centers but per these stats he's more like top 20, not top 10. When you consider his defense is sub par but he has been matched with Jefferson, not Horford, he isn't looking anywhere close to top 10. Power Forward is a very talent heavy position in the NBA right now (as opposed to Small Forward and Shooting guard which are very weak).

Although everyone in this thread is being very optimistic, I think 30-35 wins is more realistic. An injury to Horford/Teague would sink our season. As I've been saying all off-season, Devin Harris, Zaza Pachulia, Ivan Johnson and Josh Smith are very hard to replace. Consider that a few games after Lou Williams went down, the Hawks finished the season 19-20 (a 40-42 pace). Schröder is awesome, some of the pick ups are nice but Harris and Zaza's NBA game experience and Ivan tough play alone are going to be hard to replace. But with Josh gone, there is no one quarterbacking the defense. 35-47 isn't crazy....30 wins is possible if we experience any injury issues like last year.

Defensively, Josh made Al's life at center much easier. But I don't think the article is specifically Josh centric. Maybe only one or 2 thoughts. Al is/was a big fan of Teague, Harris and work ethic. Say what you want about Josh but his offseason work ethic was extremely good and he had a positive effect on Teague in this manner (word is the three of them were very close in the locker room).

I predict the following for Mike Scott. 1. 2 of Horford, Brand, Milsap will not play the entire season healthy. 2. Elton Brand will be the best influence possible on Mike Scott, on the court, at the defensive end, in the weight room, inside his own head. 3. At some point Scott will have to fill in for the above mentioned players and has the potential to solidify himself as an NBA player for some time. I'm rooting for Scott.

I am first and foremost a fan of the team. Although some of my favorites are now gone, I will always root for whoever wears the Hawks' colors. For me, there are 2 distinct reasons to go to games. 1 to see a win, but 2 to root for my team. Far too often as fans we forget that being a fan is rooting for your team in good times and bad. We can't all buy a championship (see Miami, NY, LA) but we can take pride in our home town basketball mercenaries.

I think the thing I found most interesting was at the end of the interview when Jamie Dukes and Josh were talking about Atlanta fans not having anything to worry about now. Jamie then went on to talk about how Atlanta fans whine. That when there was talk of Josh and Dwight together in Atlanta, most every city would have said to sign them up for that but all Atlanta did was find reasons to whine.

No my argument is that this is fairly par for the course with many big men. To be fair, I just grabbed names and looked at 7 players. I just listed players under 40%. The evidence of 5 in 7 is a pretty convincing sample. But answering your question more directly. This is fairly par for the course in the NBA. There are better coached or shorter leash players whose numbers are higher. But for most higher use big men in the NBA, an eFG% on shots outside of close range is below 45% but makes up over 50% of their offense. To hear Atlanta fans spin it, Josh was completely different than 90% of the NBA PF's. The reality is at 56% he was fairly normal and at 39% eFG on those shots he was middle of the pack.

The point of that rant is this. Smith's only Diss about Atlanta's fans or the city was to speak on what was the "Noooooo" to shooting jumpers and Smith said, "well they don't have to worry about that anymore". The rest of the negatives in his interview were specifically targeting Ferry and the organization's treatment of its players, something all of us at one time or another has questioned. When Joe was shipped out last year, many of you (not me) were incensed. When Dwight, Paul, Pekovic or anyone else costing more than $10 million a year wasn't signed this year, many on this board scratched their head. When we drafted 2 more prospects that yet again will be playing overseas, some of you grunted. When the team nearly lost Teague, others on this board wondered why we took so long to match. These are not things winning organizations do. Operating below the cap and 14 million below the LT is no way to operate if you want to win now. Avoiding moving into the top 10 in the draft and then wasting your current picks is no way to win next year. Being cheap with Smith, Teague, not having the Bebe contract worked out ahead of time, not knowing the NBA readiness of your picks are all things that will have Horford walking out the door in 3 years and free agents avoiding Atlanta like the plague.

Thsii Why do I care if its a hook, floater, etc that the guy is bricking? eFG is a measure of how valuable each shot a player takes is. ie, eFG on jumpers is any shot that is not considered close, dunk, tip. Take each and every 2 point/3 point shot. What is the benefit of that player taking a shot not close, dunk or tip. When measured based on last season's stats, Smith performed as well or better than all star players listed. All of the players listed shot below 40% eFG from outside a normal post player's position and all except Cousins shot more than Smith. ie all were less effective away from the basket than Smith. Spin this any way you can to make yourself feel better. Smith is not Lebron and neither are all the other players listed.

To take this point further I want to display a few shot charts of very successful big men who have had solid coaching in their careers. Tyson Chandler. Although Tyson's eFG% on jump shots last year was a ridiculous .641% it still only accounted for 36% of his offense. Chandler's role has always been to put back what he rebounds and push it back out to the guards. That he played for Woody last year is a misnomer, Tyson is a product of solid coaching his whole life. If you look at older posts of mine you'll see I was pining for him 5+ years ago. However, to show that the Josh hate is really misplaced I wanted to point to a few other known big men who people on this board have coveted. Carlos Boozer - eFG% on jumpers 37.6%....63% of his offense. DeMarcus Cousins - eFG% on jumpers 31.2%...53% of his offense Paul Gasol - eFG% on jumpers 39.9%...60% of his offense. Kevin Love - eFG% on jumpers 32.0%...57% of his offense. Emeka Okafor - eFG% on jumpers 32%....58% of his offense. I could go on but every player here is either worse than Smith in eFG% or similar with more shots as a percentage of his offense. Again Smith, 38.9% for 56%. Better than Boozer, Cousins, Love, Okafor...same as Gasol effectively. Now factor in Smith's passing, defense and general game knowledge and Atlanta fans should be sick about their prospects this upcoming season.

There really is one problem with your and everyone else's take on this. Every big man on this team took an extra-ordinary number of jumpers. Ivan/Petro, even Zaza shot a larger than normal percentage. The offense called for it. As an example, when you look at Zaza's shot chart, Zaza shot 40% of his attempts as jump shots with a 38.5% eFG%. or. Ivan Johnson shot 51% of his shots on Jumpers at .384%. or. Petro shot 54% of his attempt on jumpers at .331% Josh at 56% at .389% is actually par for the course and in line with LD's offense. The exception to the rule is Horford who shot 63% jumpers for 48.5% eFG%. Horford was the only big man on the team with any real reason to shoot from outside the circle but he shot an even greater percent than Smith while shooting far below his other averages. This is a symptom of LD's offense. Josh's attempts are in line with the attempts of others on the team with a similar or better percentage. When you consider Teague's offense was 67% jumpers at a 44% eFG clip, you can see that the Smith hate is actually misplaced. The real issue is that Smith, Zaza, Al, Petro, Johnson and the rest were undersized and our offensive sets / mindset as a team was to settle for the jumper. This is a reflection of point play and the coach.