thecampster

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/22578966/report-josh-smith-has-5-6-free-agency-suitors-including-detroit And word is they'd be willing to do a sign-n-trade for him.

Because you guys want things done too fast. In the case of a sign and trade. There is no functional difference between signing a player on July 9th and trading the draft rights to "insert name here" and a draft night sign and trade for a pick. You can't / don't sign your rookies right away for a number of reason (most important of which is the rookie hold is less than the hold +20% a rookie can sign for. So teams close on the cap/LT sign their players first then sign the rook. Therefore the rook is a rights, not a player and functionally you trade his rights. Also, with rules against trading picks in subsequent years, those rules don't apply once you own the rights. I remember vaguely a deal a few years ago where there was a trade that couldn't be consummated until after free agency began but the commissioned clarified at the podium team X was drafting for team Y (might be getting my sports confused).

You keep doing this. You aren't choosing Josh over Al. You are choosing Dwight/Josh or Al/someone (other than Dwight/CP3). That's what these people are suggesting.

In a post a few weeks ago, I made a point of telling everyone that players/team personnel couldn't discuss anything on the record because everyone is under contract (on queue the tampering event happened days later). Tomorrow, Monday the 24th it begins. Up until this point, everything you've heard are uneducated rumor mongering to sell papers, web time, advertising. But starting Monday, agents will start to leak free agent intentions. Teams will start to leak possible draft day deals (for Thursday). Although front office personnel and players can't speak, local media personnel will start to reveal what they are told behind the scenes and with every pre-draft trade you will start to get a feel for what is actually going to happen. This is the first week you can start to believe some rumors. Let it begin.

There isn't enough league cap space for a team to offer Kyle 8-9 million a season. There are about 8-10 teams that will have 10 million or more in available cap space. Of that about 5 have 18 or more. That's room for about 15 players to get contracts of 8 million or more this year without resigning with their original team. When you assume that of the top 10 free agents about half will resign with their original team and that will eliminate a few of the above mentioned slots, that leaves about 13 slots for 8 million plus in free agents. Or meaning for Kyle to get above the MLE (your 8-9 milion), he's have to be considered one of the top 18 ish free agents available this year. Below is a link to the list available free agents. Go through the list and mentally decide who is a better investment that Kyle. There are at least 20. http://www.hoopsworld.com/2013-nba-free-agents

Imagine this world if you would. Wade on his bad knees trying to guard Jordan in his prime. James trying to score on Pippen in his prime with Rodman or Grant offering help defense in the lane. Who on the Heat not names James (cuz he's guarding Pippen) is going to guard Kukoc, get out on BJ Armstrong etc. In what world is Eric Spoelstra able to out coach Phil Jackson. This explains exactly why Nique, Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Ewing all don't have a championship and nothing else. If Malone/Stockton faced these heat, Lebron would have had nightmares trying to guard Malone. I don't see a player in the NBA today like Karl Malone (no offense Boss).

I honestly wonder if you guys understand what certain players bring to the table. Using players who played 25 min or more a game (per NBA.com) <.9 attempts per game. Smith, 98 in 3pt% Rebounds per game Smith 26th (on a team with a top 11 rebounder). Assists per game 43rd (from the PF spot most night) Blocks per game tied for 8th (only PF in top 10) Steals per game tied for 47th 29th in scoring (18 people above him shot a lower percentage to include Harden and Kobe, Carmelo, Westbrook, Pierce). You say you won't miss him now but if we don't land Howard/Paul it is very likely we don't make the playoffs. Teague is not a top 10 PG. Horford is your only bonafide player left on the team and he is out of position. Half of the free agents on that list comparable to Josh in talent will go back to their original team for the extra paycheck. The rest will try teaming up. The only player on that list that will probably take a discount to play here is Josh. I really don't think you guys realize what you have there.

Jefferson is not better. He's just better offensively. He's a defensive liability. This is probably my biggest frustration on this board. Every time someone jumps on one of our players (and its every year a different guy), that whipping boy is always beaten over his shot selection, scoring ability, etc. Defense wins. This board sorely underestimates the value certain players on this team bring. Our slide last year for instance didn't begin with the Lou Williams injury but with Zaza playing through injury. We missed Zaza in the middle (and it pains me to say that). People on this board forget that Al was injured most of last year and the Hawks won. Joe and Marvin left and the Hawks won. There were only 3 consistencies between last year and this year and they were Teague/Smith/Drew. Unless you are going to tell me that Teague was the difference maker or that Drew is an all world coach, that leaves only one answer to why the Hawks remained consistent the last 3 years. Smith is not Lebron but he isn't Darvin Ham either. He isn't an 8 million dollar a year player and even with his horrendous year last year the Hawks still managed the 5th seed with Smith as the number 1 guy and half the roster on life support. You guys will miss him when he's gone.

So the newest rumor out there is that The Clippers are going to send a package to The Lakers in a sign and trade for Dwight Howard. This along with getting Rivers to coach and KG at PF (nightmare) would be the trick to have Paul stay. The deal would involve giving up their picks, Blake Griffin (to the Lakers), DeAndre Jordan to the Celtics and all hinges on them giving up Bledsoe as well and to which party. Assuming these deals go down, Howard and Paul will be off the market without any team with cap room in FA participating. So if you are the Hawks, now what do you do? If this deal goes down, expect Smith back for that 14 million a year I keep saying. Expect Teague back @ at least 8 million per. This will leave us with approximately 11 million in cap room. Why Smith and Teague will be back. The NBA has a minimum team salary each team must meet. In 2013 that number rises to 90% of the cap. With an expected cap of 58.4 million, that equates to a minimum team salary of $52.56 million. As covered in numerous other topics the Hawks have 4 players under contract that should be back next year and 2 incoming first round picks. Not including holds that = approximately 22.4 million in salary. Meaning the Hawks are 30.16 million short of meeting the NBA minimum team salary and only 7 slots to fill. We will either be overpaying for our own players or for other people's players. Expect both back if this LA deal goes down. Signing both for 22 million total = a cap number of 44.4 million (approximate) + holds, with 5 slots to fill. Expect one quality big to take up the majority of the remaining money (my guess would be Bynum, Jefferson or Pekovic) and then 4 players to fill out the rest. And as far as the "deal is all but dead", that's a sure sign 2 weeks before free agency/draft happenings that its truly on and the teams are just gauging fan interest.

By the way, Teague's hold and the draft picks hold is a net of about 8 million with my scenario showing 5 million in room, so you are technically 3 million away from the scenario showed working. If we assume the price for Smith is closer to the 10 million you guessed and not the 14 million starting I guessed and you assume a price tag of 17 million starting for Dwight, then its doable as stated....again, big ifs.

I did mention that I fudged it a bit based primarily on Teague and I'm using the generous 12 for Smith 18 for Dwight (previous numbers in the post are 13 and 10). I also assumed Williams wouldn't be used in the trade part or traded away for space to make it happen. It is doable with minor tweaking but isn't exactly smart based on 2 major factors 1. When Horford's would come up for renewal he would command more (assumed) 2. The rookie contracts, Howard/Paul/Smith would all be escalating and would push the team into the LT from year 1 on.

After much thinking and pondering I think I came up with a scenario where yes, the big 2+2 could happen. It's a bit complicated and would require cooperation but it is plausible. Current roster situation - Horford - 12 Williams - 5.25 Jenkins - 1.26 Scott - .8 (including Scott as he is a given and = to a roster slot +.3) --------------------------- 19.31 Mandatory cap hold Tyler (hold) - .1 8 slots @ $4.0 (approximate) -------------------------- 23.41 technically this is where you are. (not including picks on purpose, you'll see why) Now in order to retain Josh in this scenario he must be signed first (you must deal with your own deals first). Josh - 12 million - 500,000 roster slot cap hold 35.91 million Now you deal with Dwight 18 million - Dwight (assuming minor discount to play with Paul/Smith/Horford) - 500.000 vet min cap hold 53.41 million. In this scenario and even including the extra cap holds for the draft picks, the Hawks are 5 million under the cap. The Clippers sign and trade Chris Paul to the Atlanta Hawks in a 3 way deal Clippers get - 3rd team player, Jeff Teague, 17th pick in the 2013 NBA draft. 3rd team gets - 18th pick in the 2013 NBA draft. Atlanta gets - Chris Paul Why the 3rd team does it? Finding a team over the cap who needs to dump a quality player will not be hard (see Boston, Chicago, LAL, NJ, etc) Given current NBA cap rules, a trade of Teague for Paul will not work because Teague will not make enough to = 150% of the incoming salary. A third team is necessary. Clips do it for 2 players and a pick to save face if they believe Paul is gone. Will this happen, I don't think so and I've fudged the numbers a bit. Teague's cap hold is a bit high and makes the Dwight signing not possible by a few million. Smith could get more or less depending on the situation, his head which would affect this and the numbers are so close its nearly impossible. So JTB, I recant my earlier, it isn't going to happen and replace it with a "it's highly unlikely it will happen." It is statistically doable but highly unlikely. Also, I do not know how the sign and trade would retroactively affect the original signings. Hawksfanatic or others might want to clarify. But unlike what we previously said it is possible and possible giving them the kind of money they are due, but would require an extreme amount of cooperation by numerous parties. Now the end result. Paul Jenkins/Williams Smith Horford/Scott Howard 2 2nd round picks, no one else on the current roster (to satisfy cap hold requirements) and 4 vet minimums. So no Mack, no Zaza, no Johnson, etc. But possible and that starting 5 would be the best in basketball but the bench beyond Williams would be a crap shoot.

The writer of the article is wrong. San Antonio 35.8 million without options team options (Neal, Splitter (6 million)) Player options (Diaw, Mills(6 million)) Ginobili cap hold (19 million) --------------------------------- You can't do anything about the player options so that moves them to 41 million (17.5 million for Dwight). You'd have to waive your rights to Neal, Splitter, Ginobili, leaving 3 empty roster spots (1.5 million in vet min cap holds). So Dwight would have to sign with them for 16 million best case scenario and they'd have no money level over and no Ginobili, Neal or Spliter.

Ferry can not say too much positive about Josh at this point in the media. It hurts his bargaining position.

Here is why those two names excite this board so much. 1. Dwight is the ATL. Played ball here, belongs here. PERIOD!!! People can't see that and seeing their local talent play for a rival for years hurt like all get out. 2. Paul should have been ours all along. Playing the odds, I say 99-1 that if BK could do it all over again he'd rethink that whole long and athletic is better than the best point guard to come down the pike in 15 years gambit he tried way back when.

You're wasting your breath. Fan stands for fanatic. Crazy doesn't play into logic. If I were D12/Paul I would definitely collude and choose Atlanta. Money from winning an NBA championship > contract amount. It makes the most financial sense for them to choose the most secure option and Paul/Horford/Howard I would argue is a bigger three than Wade/Bosh/James. 18 An 18.6/9.8 PG shooting 47% with only 2.3 TO per game (better than 4/1 assist to T/O ratio), the best center in the game and an 18/9 54% FG% PF all with younger legs than Miami's group is a much better base to build from. Inside, outside and midrange game covered. But talking sense into them and their agents is another story. The odds are not with us.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/monta-ellis-reportedly-offered-turned-down-significant-contract-203251549.html Monta Ellis last year 19.2 ppg 6 apg 3.9 rpg 41.7% FG% 28.7% 3FG% 3.1 T/O Turned down 12 million a year extension. Undersized, inefficient shooter. A. was offered 12 million B. turned it down

This was handled in multiple threads thus far. If you don't bring back Teague and want to keep Smith add CP3 and Horford they would have to all sign for a little less than 13mil each for the first year. This is something missing in many of the conversations. The salaries would be 1st year salaries only to meet the cap number. Smith's raises could only be 7.5 % annually and Howard/Paul would be limited to 4.5% annual raises. So 10 for Smith, 14 each for Paul/Howard would do it. But of course there is no chance of that happening. Dumping Williams for a pick would add about 4.7 million to that mix. Regardless, not happening.

Actually Malone took Oscar Robinson over Jordan at the 2. The article head is very misleading. Malone picked PG - Stockton SG - Robinson SF - Pippen PF - Lebron C - Chamberlain Now defending Malone on the Pippen pick. I grew up in the Chicagoland area and watched the Bulls every night. I became a Hawks fan at the age of 16 and switched my allegiance full time after moving here in the early 90's. I watched both teams almost every game they were on for nearly 9 years. Pippen was a far superior defensive player. I think its quite possible that Pippen was the most complete defensive player I have ever seen, often times winning games solely on his defensive prowess. I first direct you to this link which will show you Pippen defending Magic 1 on 1 and making Magic seem like a D-Leaguer link . (or here ) Pippen was perhaps the best passing forward in 30 years. Not only did he have fabulously heads up vision while dribbling. Rarely were his passes off target. He often made it look easy. View Despite a weight disadvantage and despite doing everything else, Pippen average 6.4 rebounds per game from the SF position including a season high 8.2 one year. Spacing. Pippen understood floor spacing often functioning as the on floor captain setting up plays, spacing and directing traffic. Game changer. Although largely overshadowed by the greatest finisher and most clutch player to ever lace them up, it was more often Pippen than Jordan who would inject himself to change the flow of games with amazing, Smoove like, electric plays. Always a threat to steal the ball and go the other way, Pippen could take a lack-a-dasical team performance and ignite his team with a coast to coast rebound-jam. Bulls announcers used to say of Pippen he scored his points when it mattered. Jordan used to say in interviews that when Scottie takes over a game its just best to let him do it. Retiring 3 years too late drove down his career averages where for most of his career he averaged 20/7/5/3/1 while playing amazing defense. Malone was right on. Pippen is my favorite player of all time with only one real black mark on his resume', the argument with Phil Jackson about the last shot and the thing most people remember him most for.

And there is no way either is taking that much less to play in Atlanta. Other markets offer much better marketing opportunities which = more salary. Atlanta will have to pony up to get both.

The exact opposite. teams with room will like a cap of under 60 million as it will do 2 things. 1. It will mean a lower luxury tax meaning a fire sale for teams more than 4 million into the LT. 2. It means less competition for top talent which means lower salaries for the top 10 free agents not named Dwight or Chris. If the Hawks are smart and are looking at more players over 1 superstar this could mean a stacked roster.

There was a time when I could take anyone off the dribble, but at 42 and 20 years of Long Horns and 4500 Krispy Kreme's later, I shoot a lot of baskets in the driveway flatfooted now. You young bucks would use me as a skills cone in a real game.

A fair way to look at it given your top 3 player on the roster criteria is to say, There are 30 NBA teams there are 3 top 3 players per team. There are 90 top 3 players in the league. Question, is Josh a top 90 player in the league? According to PER, Josh was 64th in the league this year. Last year he was 29th. The year before he was 35th. Add in the fact that he is an above average defender and you have a player who is at least top 50 in the league. Now consider a team like the Charlotte Bobcats. They will be 19 million under the cap this year and 36 million under next year. However, they are not a top free agent destination center. They desperately need a player like Josh to fuel fan excitement and hope. When determining what a player will get in free agency, you don't ask what is he worth to your team. You ask "what is he worth to every team". The only question remaining revolves around whether Josh wants to win or get paid.

We should sticky this. I think Coon is going to be proven wrong here. I still stick by my thought that he'll get a deal somewhere starting at 14 per. Maybe the only caveat to that would be if he takes a discount to play for a top tier team.

Based on Paul's desire to play for an African American coach, this just clarified our plan a bit. No CP3.