thecampster

No....its hate. Guy does what you want him to do and you still rag on him. Lost in the shuffle are a few interesting facts about Josh again this year. Despite having his lowest PER rating in some time he is still 1st in scoring, 1st in blocks, 2nd in rebounds, 2nd in steals, 2nd in assists. Most guys would kill for this type of down year.

Did we really just make a Josh Smith hate thread on blowout night where Josh went for 28 and 12 shooting 61%???

when editing, choose the option to use the full editor and it needs to be completed fairly quickly, like within 3-5 minutes of the original post.

No I think the point is made Dolfan. Our memories are very short. Coach's point of "who could have imagined" is simple. I spoke specifically in my posts about the Hawks moving Marvin and JJ. I said moving Josh or Al made less sense. I explained exactly how JJ would be moved and I said Marvin could be moved for what a team would consider excess talent. These are just examples that you guys perceive your takes were brilliant but in the end turned out to be flat wrong. The posts I was looking for had to do with my assertions last year about signing players and I think they fell off the board (apr 2012). You, I, Mace etc were having discussions when the first mention of amnesty was reported. It was very similar to the discussion you are referencing but it was one of our first jumps on the board into the forgotten cost of empty roster spots being cap holds and free agent cap hold being about 50% higher than their last salary. I remember it because up until that point you and I really didn't disagree much but you came down pretty hard back then before others chimed in and clarified how amnesty and cap holds affect the ability to sign players.

Going back to my earlier post. I believe we'll be packaging to move up or moving those pick for players. There is no way the Hawks start the year with 4 rookies and 2 second year players.

A As long as you're going to bring AHF in on this...how about we quote some of you and AHF's more brilliant takes on cap, players and what we can do. Do you remember last year when I kept saying Joe Johnson was gone? Well here was your's and AHF's take on JJ's future as a hawk. Source: http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/368289-build-around-our-big-3-horford-smith-teague/page-2 AHF Dolfan http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/368416-cunningham-blog-on-hawks-salary-cap/page-2 This is a great one. Full of great Dolfan/AHF facts on what we can, can't do. We'll sample this one Or we can just quote me from that same thread in May of last year It's like I'm psychic. wooooaahhh scary. http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/369587-will-hawks-amnesty-joe-cant-afford-to-miss-out-on-this-opportunity/page-3 Just another place where I again called that JJ for players and picks was the way to go and realistic. Still filtering posts. I wish we had a comparison feature that would show only threads that both you and I posted in.

nope go farther back and no I didn't come out looking wrong on that...you requalified your statement after the fact this is a completely separate issue

Wait a minute there sparky. You gave me all kinds of crap earlier in the year about me stating you can't just sign people with cap space. That its more complicated than that and includes cap holds, etc. I need to go back and look at posts.

Lost in all the free agent talk is an added flexibility the Hawks have this year. The Hawks technically have 6 tradeable commodities this year. The 4 picks this year and 2 picks next year. For the sake of simplicity I'm not going to count future years beyond that. With the Hawks have tons of cap space it is possible to trade a pick for a player from another team. We have enough room that a 1st for a player like Pau Gasol will work under the cap next year. We are not exclusively tied to free agents. Under normal circumstances we would have to receive no more than 150% of salary back. But this year we could trade for a player for simply a second round pick. This is very much like what we did to get Korver this past season, except this year we could do that 6 times over. Assuming a world where Josh walks, lets just consider teams in cap hell. The Nets are sitting at 85 million committed next year. Kris Humphries is set to make 12 million. Technically Humprhies could be had for a 2nd round pick. The LT hit for the Nets to have Humphries on the roster will approach Kobe like numbers and he isn't even starting anymore. The Toronto Raptors have 72 million committed next year to 12 players when you include options. They have 28 million committed to 2 players...Gay and Bargnani. Bargnani could be had for one of the 1st. The Knicks have 77 million committed next year and a big honking problem in Stoudemire soaking up 21.6 million. In order to be free of Stoudemire, they would give up their 1st rounder (or 2) and take back only a 2nd rounder. Stoudemire is signed for 2 more years. Yes you heard me right. I believe that if Ferry took back Stoudemire, the Knicks would trade this year's, 2015's 1sts and take back a second happily. The Lakers (as I've mentioned) are a mess. They have 79 million committed without Dwight and to only 11 players. They'd let you spend the night with the cheerleading squad to dump Gasol next year. And now on to my favorite. The Celtics have 76 million committed to 14 players next year (4 million between 3 players not guaranteed). Assuming Garnett and Pierce are back, the Celtics are in danger of not being playoff ready next year. They would potentially trade Rondo for Teague straight up. The Bulls have 77 million committed next year and Boozer has been perennially shopped. And now for the premier picks for player target. Golden State has just under 74 million committed next year and Andrew Bogut has been an extreme disappointment. He has 1 year left at 14 million. Biedrins has been such a disappointment and at 9 million dollars, this is another player they would give up a 1st to get rid of. As you can tell I've given this significant thought and I believe this is the route Ferry expects to take in the off season. I believe he intends to fleece other team's issue contracts while acquiring picks/giving up our 2nds.

The knock on Petro his entire NBA career is that he is soft. That when motivated he can play very well. He has been a starter at times in his career. But when a starter, he loses all aggressiveness and just collects a check. This year he's playing for his NBA life to stay in the league, playing with a chip on his shoulder. Given ample playing time he'd revert back to comfortable Johan. This stereotype came about in his 3rd year while playing for Seattle (now OKC). Rembering that Petro is listed at 7'0" 250. In his first 2 seasons he average 18:30 minutes a game shooting 51%, 6 points and 5 boards and 7/10th of a block a game. In his third season they envisioned an expanded role. But he came in out of shape. His FG% dropped to under 42% average over the next 3 years (41.9, 40.7, 42.9). His rebounds/min, blocks, steals all dropped and by the end of the season found himself losing playing time. 51.0 51.6 41.9 40.7 42.9 53.5 44.5 41.9 43.7 In a career 7220 minutes of playing time he has 233 blocks. By comparison, Horford has 434 in 13366 minutes but playing half as many years. Smith in 23000 minutes for his career has 1438. That 6'9" Smith has almost 7 times as many blocks in his career as Petro and 3 times the minutes in almost the same number of years played doesn't speak highly of Petro's work ethic. Despite all the complaints about Smith's shot selection, He's shot 46.4% form the floor for his career while taking 935 career 3's. Petro has only taken 13 in his career but shoots 46.2% and drawing less than 1 foul shot attempt per game for his career. That's why Johan hasn't gotten playing time. He only plays when motivated and right now he's playing for his NBA life.

Nice game last night when given playing time. Jenkins proving he can play at this level. I sincerely hope these two are given a real role next year.

No: Lou Williams Zaza Pauchulia Devin Harris John Jenkins Stephenson, Tolliver, Mack, Jones played a total of 75 minutes Teague and Horford shoot a combined 12-32 with 7 turnovers. When you are missing 4 rotation players and are relying on big minutes from Stevenson, Tolliver, Mack and Jones....the chances of a loss are pretty solid.

His disclaimer that its his value and not what they will get is a nice touch, but I think his number are close enough we can use the 20% rule. Meaning the player will receive within 20% of the number provided. In Smith's case, that puts his high range at $16.8 million. Which is a little lower than a starting max value from someone other than the Hawks. I still stand by my assessment he'll get 16 per...(starting around 14 ending around 18). The question for Josh is, does he want to win or does he want to get paid. The way I'm looking at it, Josh has made about $70 million already in his career. His next contract is all gravy if he's been good with his money. 4 years 56 million or 5 years 70 million isn't much of a difference when you look at after tax money. But sticking closer to 14 million a season for the Hawks frees up a great deal of money for the Hawks to add pieces to Teague, Al and himself. Chasing the dollars elsewhere pretty much ensures he'll never sniff a ring. A ring is worth far more in advertising, future employment, name recognition than one contract. I'm hoping his father points him in the right direction long term. Bring a ring to Atlanta by doing the right thing and the money will take care of itself.

I'm a big fan of the per36 stat. It isn't something that should be solely relied on and loses its importance the smaller the sample but it does show a little something about ability. Mike Scott's per36 this year is 14.2 ppg and 10.3 rpg by comparison Horfords at 16.8 and 9.8 Smiths at 17.5 - 8.6 Johnson - 15.5 - 9.2 Petro - 11.2 - 9.7 Tolliver - 9.7 - 5.9 Korver - 12.7 - 4.6 there has to be some room for this kid in the lineup.

Jenkins has been proving he can guard SG man up...he struggles with movement schemes but the only way to get better with those is playing time. Jenkins should be getting the minutes.

There is absolutely no way Jarvis falls out of the first round. At 30, Jarvis fills an immediate need and there is no way the Falcons could pass on him at 30 from a talent or public relations stand point.

Post All-Star Games - 17 MPG - 38:30 made - 9.5 att16.5 PPG 21.0 FG% - 57.3 FT% - 66.7 RPG -11.5 APG - 3.2 SPG - 1.4 BPG - 1.4 T/O -2.6 Points, steals, rebounds, blocks are all up as is shooting percentage and FT percentage. T/O went from 1.8 earlier in the year to 2.6 per game post all star break showing he's getting more touches and more involved.

This is a common phenomena in sports. When one of the better players (or in this case, multiple) sits, the bench players get extended minutes. At this point in the season, their legs are fresher, there is less game film/preparation for them and the bench players usually are much more willing to work the coach's system. I think that shows in Jenkins/Harris having the largest +/- tonight. Both were + 11 (Jenkins in 19 minutes) and played a great deal together on the floor. Harris to this point this season has shown more of an ability to play Drew's system. Teague is the more exciting player but Harris has been consistently good when given minutes and more importantly the starters are good when on the floor with Harris. The difference is as a vet he knows what the coach wants and how to give it to him. System's beat talent most nights. The best teams work their system regardless of who is on the floor. San Antonio is the best example of this I can think of. No Parker...no problem...work the system. No Duncan...same thing. There may come a day when Smith/Teague and the other talented players in the league come to realize that team comes before ego and when they do, their teams usually succeed.

I went back and watched the play from two angles. Kobe kicks his right leg out which contacts Dahntey below the waste. Dahntey's action on the play is borderline a foul in that he did jump toward Kobe to contest and there was some other very light body contact. But while watching I had a very interesting thought. Should Kobe miss any significant time, this increases the chances of LA missing the playoffs and Houston making it. Meaning Atlanta gets the pick. Conspiracy...duh dun duhnnnnn./

I think Brook Lopez being healthy for a full season has just as much if not more to do with it.

I was thinking something similar the other day. 7th seed is 16 or 17th pick depending on conference. right now Houston and Atlanta could both end up the 7th's 8th seed meaning 2 picks 14-17. That is a nice start to the off season where flexibility is key. It gives you these low priced, high value trading chips. Scott, Jenkins, 2 first round picks, Teague, Williams, and multiple sign/trade deals. That's much better value than we've been able to offer teams in the recent past.

One of the things that bother me with professional athletes is the commonality of injuries. I've played competitive sports my whole life and can count the number of injuries on one hand...none of them serious enough to be out long periods of time. I've been hurt more often from uneven ground in my yard, food born illness and stupidity involving burning leaves.

Watching feeds gives me the opportunity to hear rival announcers alot. They use the exact same word. That's when it started bothering me. Feels like they're all reading from the same script.

This is a very good take.....Good call.

Working 2 angles on this right now. I'm talking with Bruin about his group's tickets. But I'm also talking with Trey Hardin in Hawks ticket promotions as well. I'll need real numbers and we're going to need a way to pay, etc. Hopefully they'll let us pay at the gate with the code as you say.