thecampster

Ewing was probably the best example of a complete center although Hakeem was a better / more impact player.

Comcast had the Warriors broadcast available on TEAM1 and was available locally. Yes I watched. Yes it stunk.

With Hollinger going to Memphis today to become the new VP, I thought I'd draw attention to one of his analytics I just discovered. Playoff odds, projected records with best/worst possibles. http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/playoffodds Hawks fairing well with a tie for the 5th best record in basketball projected.

NY is one Tyson Chandler injury away from being a 6 seed. Do not be fooled, Woody as a defensive coach + Chandler is what drives them. Subtract out Chandler and their team dynamic changes dramatically. I'm not afraid of NY. Chandler is 4 points a 1 rebound above his career averages right now and balances out many of the team's defensive errors. Chandler has played in every game this year. Last year they were 2 and 2 with Chandler out with the 2 wins coming during the last 2 games of the year in garbage time. If Chandler goes down at all, the Knicks are very mortal.

Interesting idea. There have been studies about helping left handed people who are having trouble with dexterity by having them watch the tasks performed in a mirror (IE, making the performer left handed). Then the person attempts to mimic the movements while watching in the mirror. There was some success and the presupposition was that lefties have less in the way of visual mentoring than Righties. So perhaps Josh's ills could be eased by having him watch game film or other players in the mirror while emulating their moves/positioning. This left vs right thing could also explain why he excels in some defensive situations. His strong hand is mirrored to the opposing player's strong hand.

Ivan has the 3rd highest +/- net on the team per 48.

Which is fine. But the point of the thread still holds some water. The Smith/Horford/Pachulia lineup is not being employed nearly enough based on its success (less than 25% of the time) and some of the other lineup combinations are obviously less effective. We're seeing this lineup less because it doesn't start and has to be worked into the rotation.

Anyone on this board that knows me knows I'm the biggest Josh fan ever but how does a power forward do this? 3PT FG% 46.2% FG% - 44.7% How in the world does a power forward shoot better from 3 for the year than he does from 2.....or better yet, how does a power forward who is one of the best finishers in the game and is shooting 46% from 3 still shoot under 50% from the floor?

[*]No free agent signed in the offseason can be traded until December 15 of that year or until three months have passed (whichever comes later), a rule that prevents teams from signing free agents with the intent of using them strictly as trade fodder. For draft picks this moratorium lasts 30 days. [*]If a team acquires a player in a trade, they are allowed to trade that player straight-up for another individual player immediately. However, if they wish to package that player with another and make a trade, the team must wait 60 days before doing so. We should have been able trade any of our trade acquired players as of September 9th believe. It's free agents that are Dec 15. Here is our transaction list from July. Translation - The NJ players were eligible 60 days after July 11th which is September 9. Korver's 60 days was up on sept 14. Schortsanitis on Sep 28. Lou Williams, Ivan Johnson are available Dec 15. That is unless I'm missing something. Jul 30 Sofoklis Schortsanitis FC Traded from LA Clippers to Atlanta (Rights traded for Wille Green) Jul 16 Jordan Farmar PG Waived by Atlanta Jul 16 Kyle Korver GF Traded from Chicago to Atlanta (For cash) Jul 11 Joe Johnson GF/SG Traded from Atlanta to Brooklyn (Part of seven player trade) Jul 11 DeShawn Stevenson GF/SF Traded from Brooklyn to Atlanta (Part of seven player trade) Jul 11 Jordan Farmar PG Traded from Brooklyn to Atlanta (Part of seven player trade) Jul 11 Anthony Morrow GF/SF Traded from Brooklyn to Atlanta (Part of seven player trade) Jul 11 Jordan Williams FC Traded from Brooklyn to Atlanta (Part of seven player trade) Jul 11 Johan Petro C Traded from Brooklyn to Atlanta (Part of seven player trade) Jul 11 Devin Harris G/SG/PG Traded from Utah to Atlanta (For Marvin Williams) Jul 11 Marvin Williams SF Traded from Atlanta to Utah (For Devin Harris) Jul 11 Lou Williams G/SG Signed as Free Agent by Atlanta (Signed to a three year contract)

No...that's him reading the chart wrong. The chart is organized by minutes top to bottom. It's only tops in minutes played for that units. In that listing there are 20 units listed by time. 16 feature something other than a front line of Smith/Horford/Pachulia. The total time is 393.1 minutes or 8.19 games played. The Hawks are +64 over that time period of +/- of +7.81 per 48 minutes 4 lineups feature a front line of Smith/Horford/Pachulia. The total time is 133.4 minutes or 2.78 games played. The Hawks are +47 over that time period of +/- of +16.91 per 48 minutes. The sample size shows the Hawks to be 9.10 points better per 48 minuts for the season with Smith/Horford/Pachulia as the front line. In only 1 instance was this lineup negative and it was a -1. In 6 of the other 16 instances the lineup was negative. -1, -2, -3, -4, -16, -23

Remember that we have tons of expirings and a few picks. My guess is we will be making a trade soon to add one more talent. Tonight will tell us a great deal about ourselves as a team. A win makes us the 2nd seed in the East, a loss is a sign we are lacking.

AHEM, it was Dolfan who earlier in this post made fun of someone arguing with the facts. Well the facts are very simple right now using the only "facts" we have. The team is more than twice as efficient based on +/- with Josh at the 3 and the team is +/- 16 per 48 when we play Josh/Al/Zaza. In case you are having trouble with that, here is what it means. We average winning games by 16 points with that lineup. We haven't been winning by 16 all year which means our other lineups are horribly inefficient comparably. Dolfan wanted facts...these are facts. Context matters when the sample size is small. At 17 games we are creating a sample size large enough to start drawing conclusions if the numbers are significant enough. +16 per 48 is significant.

82games.com Simple rating, Zaza +3.5. Stevenson -1.4 OPP rating - Negligle for Zaza Zaza 11.9 Stevenson 13.0 Josh at the 5/4/3 5 - 4% of the time he's +1 (5.2 per) 4 - 45% of the time - he's +40 (17.6 per) 3 - 19% of the time - he's +41 (18.9 per) So in 19% of the Hawks minutes, Josh has been on the floor and is +41 In 49% of the Hawks minutes, Josh has been the 4 or 5 and is +41. The numbers bear out at this point that Josh at the 3 is better for the team overall and also personally for Josh as well. Interestingly, Josh's iFG% is 50% at the 5 (too small a sample), 45% at the 4 and 49% at the 3. Playing the 3 (farther from the basket) hasn't hurt his iFG. Another just for kicks stat. Josh has been on the floor for 68% of the team's minutes this year and the team has been +82 in that time. +6.5 per 48 minutes. When off the court the team is -2.9 per 48, a 9.4 point disparity. The simple answer from this small sample of 17 games is that the team seems to perform much better with Josh at the 3 than at the 4 and most of the time, that lineup is Zaza/Al/Josh. In a similar comparison, Horford has played the 5 for 40% of the team's minutes and is +19 in that period of time. He has played the 4 in 32% of the team's minutes and is +29 in those minutes leading one to believe the team is better when Al is at the 4. Last bit of stats. The top 2 lineups used with Zaza in the lineup both feature Teague/Smith/Horford (with Korver and Harris spliting the time at the SG). In those 105 minutes the Hawks are +36. Or +16.47 p/48 with a Smith/Horford/Zaza front line.

Not to mention they were totally screwed by the officials in the Miami game causing them the win there. The team should be 13-4 and with the NY loss tonight that would have meant #1 in the East. As is, I'll take 1 game out from the best record with all the new faces this year.

Didn't forget any of that....renouncings, other signings and amenstys change the landscape much more than you are giving them credit. Simple answer is no team can offer Josh Smith more than Atlanta next season from a complete destination point of view.

From ESPN: Additional limits for taxpaying teams • 2005 CBA: No additional limits for taxpaying teams. • 2011 CBA: Taxpaying teams have a smaller midlevel exception, can acquire less salary in trade, and cannot use the biannual exception. Starting in 2013-14, teams more than $4 million above the tax level cannot receive a player in a sign-and-trade transaction. • Who benefits? Throughout the labor dispute, the league has tried to improve competitive balance by installing a very restrictive cap system -- first asking for a hard cap, then a "flex" cap, and then a highly punitive luxury tax, before finally settling on a luxury tax with more teeth. In addition to an incremental tax penalty, taxpaying teams now will have less access to exceptions. This will give small-market teams a competitive advantage -- for example, instead of weighing equal $5 million offers in Los Angeles and Minnesota, a free agent might be forced to choose between a $3 million offer in Los Angeles and a $5 million offer in Minnesota. So you might want to rethink your assertion. Currently there are only a couple of teams that fit into that category. Only 6 teams paid the LT last season. I believe only 3 or 4 are more than 4 mil over the LT and of those, most have waivable options/early termination clauses, etc. Almost every team in the league is a player if they want to be (LA/Miami excluded).

Mace....Josh will have his choice of teams. But he isn't going to just chase the money. The Hawks will have the money...Money isn't the issue. He'll want to go to a contender. Let's say NY for example. NY won't have any money to give him. He won't fit under their cap. But they can acquire him in a SNT. I know you know this but I think you are overthinking it. It is very similar to the Dwight thing this last year. Since Josh is a free agent, he can go anywhere he wishes. But the teams with money will not be the teams who will be able to win. Now this opens up a very interesting situation for the Hawks who will be far below the cap without Josh. They can take back more in assets than they give up. This greatly opens the possibilities to what they can do. But right now, there are only a few teams if any that can swing a legit deal for Josh. So if Josh wanted to go to NY....we could hold them to give up servicable players. Facilitate Josh's desires while swinging the best options for ourselves. Think of the picks Orlando nearly got for Dwight in the Brooklyn trade that didn't quite get done. Josh will command similar but slightly regressed attention in the offseason. The big boys will want him but will need our help to make it happen.

Like I explained....the list is very small where things work because most teams are near the LT. Meaning a trade now is less flexible than in the offseason. Even then there will only be a handful of teams where signing Josh outright without a trade makes sense for them...none of which are contenders which is what Josh will want to leave here.

I'm going to do my best to explain the impending Josh free agency thing to you. Trading him now is the worst possible thing the Hawks can do. 1. Assume in F/A Josh finds a deal with another team. There will be multiple teams vying for his services and he is going to hold out for the best deal. No matter who signs him, it will be in their best interest to work out a sign and trade with the Hawks. This is the Hawks best chance to get the best assets in return. 2. Assume Josh's season continues to be less than Josh like offensively. Although Josh's contributions on defense are truly top 5 in the league, fans don't buy into defense wins championships. They buy tickets for scorers. If Josh's season continues as it is, he will be signable for much less than the maximum by the Hawks, setting us up nicely for the free agent class of 2013. 3. Assume you trade him now. You are locked into getting similar value for Josh. We are over the salary cap, under the luxury tax. We can take back no more than 4 million more in salary than what Josh is currently making and most teams that would trade for Josh now are already at the LT threshold. They are not currently looking to give up their current assets to acquire Josh and would only trade us trash and draft picks. Our lack of a core going into next year will scare off many potential free agents. Failing to try to keep your own star is the best way to not acquire FA's. 4. We currently have about 40 million in assets that are highly trade worthy. Al is coveted around the league. Teague is making a name for himself. Harris' expiring is our most worthy asset as is Zaza, Korver, Morrow, Petro's contracts are all all noteworthy as expirings. The only players on our roster that are not considered a commodity right now are Mike Scott, Deshawn Stevenson (2 year deal) and Josh Smith. Because of the potential to walk if not resigned, Josh is not a player teams want to acquire unless they are making a run at a title this year and he has to fit with what that team is trying to do. There are only a handful of teams in the league Josh would fit with right now that are contender worthy, have assets to trade back equal to his 13 million dollar salary and would take the risk he wouldn't re-sign (ie...Lakers for example). Considering all I just said, if you wish to trade Josh a sign and trade in the off-season is your best option to make all parties happy.

Uhm....tough question. You see, the average NBA fan doesn't understand total defense like more knowledgable fans do. They look at the box score and see "0" blocks and say, Oh must have been a tough game. Or they see a player post up your player and score and they think...ah he sucks in the post. What they don't see. How many times the team decides not to go at that player in the post. The person on the wing who wasn't open because the person being posted did not need help to hold the player to 50/50 chance of making the basket. The no decisions. That's the biggest one. When people don't go at the basket afraid of a block, run the possession clock low because an entry pass is denied. There is a reason the Hawks were so good defensively last year and have been even better this year. This isn't just Josh Smith. Many players on our team (Teague and Al specifically) that disallow another teams offensive set to continue as planned. The other team may score or we may not get a steal or block but the other team's offensive rhythm has been disrupted. An NBA game is 48 minutes long. We tend to focus on highlight plays, but teams get 70-100 possessions in an average game. (last game 92 for the bobcats for ex). Most NBA games are decided by 5 or fewer possessions. Disrupting 5-10 extra offensive sets usually is what a defense needs to succeed.

LMAO

I'll start. I'm sorry. I'm sorry Korver looks so much like Ashton Kucher it makes me hard to root for him. I'm sorry John Jenkins hasn't had the same chance. I'm sorry Korver doesn't fall down nearly as much as Marvin (look...I laughed every time when duckbutt hit the floor and I miss that. Like that video of the monkey that sniffs the finger he uses to scratch his butt with and then falls out of the tree. I laughed every time I saw it and now without Marvin here to keep games interesting, there is nothing to quell the mid-game boredom).

Steve Holman right after the two misses said on the radio broadcast, "I watched him in practice folks. He hits his free throws in practice." What does this tell me? It's mental and mental is much harder to fix than physical.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/leaders_career.html Josh Smith in Hawks history Games played 10th with 607 – (1st Dominique with 882) Minutes played 8th with 20651 (1st Dominque with 32545). Possibly move up to 3rd by next year if he stays a Hawk. Field Goals 9th with 3530 (Nique is safe at 8752). LOL 3-PT Field Goals made 10th with 208. Only 3 more to pass Craig Ehlo and 8 to pass Marvin. 6th in Offensive Rebounds (1288) 4th in Defensive Rebounds (3538) Total rebounds – 8th (4826) Top 20 in Assists and should make the top 10 this season. 5th in Steals (771) 2nd in blocks (1319) (but 900 less than Tree Rollins) 9th in points 4th in Defensive win shares. ALLSTAR appearances - 0 Should Smith resign, he will have a place in the top 5 of almost every statistical category imaginable in 5 years and be number in quite a few.

Josh Smith2011 first 7 games12ppg on 38.6%8.85 rpg2.86 apg1.43 bpg2012 first 7 games15.6ppg on 41.3%8.3 rpg3.7 apg2.0 bpgFinished season last year18.8 45.8%9.63.91.7I'm not too worried. Not the first time he started slow.