thecampster

You realize you have me searching the CBA right now right???? 11:15 on a Sunday.

99% sure....1000% wronghttp://www.iamagm.com/news/2011/06/01/timberwolves.cant.trade.2.overall.pick.until.draft.night.according.league.rulesHe's a player once you sign him. They never signed the 2012 pick. They're signing away the 2013 pick before drafting/signing him.

Interesting note here. You can trade with someone else and acquire a 1st round pick every year and then trade that pick away in a repackage, no problem and you can still trade away your pick every other year. But not your own pick 2 years in a row.

Can't get the 2013, they traded the 2012 in the Gerald Wallace deal. Has to be 2014 or beyond. http://basketball.wikia.com/wiki/NBA_Draft "League rules prohibit a team from trading away their own future first-round picks in consecutive years. This rule was created partially as a reaction to the practices of the Cleveland Cavaliers in the early 1980s. Ted Stepien, who owned the team from 1980 to 1983, made a series of trades for players of questionable value that cost the team several years of first-round picks. The trades nearly destroyed the franchise; the NBA pressured Stepien into selling out, and in order to get a solid local owner (Gordon Gund), the league had to sweeten the deal by giving the Cavaliers several future bonus draft picks." The New Jersey Nets receive: Gerald Wallace The Portland Trail Blazers receive: Mehmet Okur, Shawne Williams, 2012 protected first round pick

http://www.webcitation.org/63snNztz5 "• For the first five years of the CBA, each team will be permitted to waive one of its player contracts that was in effect prior to the 2011-12 season and have 100% of the player's salary removed from the team's salary for Salary Cap and Tax purposes. Each team may use this provision only once over the life of the agreement." Clearer language here: http://www.peachtree...amnesty-SI-Lowe "@ZachLowe_SI Clarification from league: Teams CANNOT use amnesty on a player they acquire via trade, even if player's contract dates to prior CBA"

Second time today I'm going to tell you this. NJ can not amnesty JJ. You can only amnesty a player you signed or that was traded for before the new CBA. You can't trade a player you trade for this summer.

Assume the JJ trade goes through with just Petro, Morrow, Farmar and an unprotected future first coming back (say 2014). The money saved allows you to sign Chris Kaman. That move allows you to move Marvin+ for someone else (assuming you could take back about a 12 million dollar player. Are you onboard?Teague/FarmarJenkins/MorrowJosh/Marvin (or other)Al/Mike ScottKaman/Zaza+3 playersSorry but that second unit looks pretty good, young.

10 deep. Teams that win the championship are 10 deep. The Heat had Battier, Chalmers, Cole, Miller, Turiaf, Cole all play a role for them this year. I'll take any non-Geritol taking NBA player at this point.

He was non-committed at the time. Yes I read it first and be fair....I insulted both of us.

Which is why neither you nor I are NBA GMs. There are about 20 teams that would offer much better than Lopez and fillers. For example, we would have given Horford, Marvin, Zaza and our first this year to get him (and their bad Hedo contract) at the trade deadline last year.

I would like to take this moment and distance myself from this post. I never said Joe wasn't a good SG. I just said he's way over valued.Assume for a moment that there are 10 top tier contracts. 10 players that deserve the max. Then 10 more who deserve near max. Then 10 more who are in the 13-14 category. Joe is at the end of this group or below. He was 56 in PER this year among qualified players. In my world, I would prefer the 10-13 category player and 7-10 million in cap relief than over paying 7 million for Joe...that's just me.

Can't trade your own 1st round pick in back to back years.

You can't amnesty traded for players.

Or let's try Jan 3, 2012. Chicago game at Chicago.Teague, Joe, Marvin, Smith, HorfordStories of the game. Joe plays 40 minutes, scores 10 points on 3-17 shooting.Bench plays 56 total minutes scoring 12 points. Joe plus bench = 96 minutes, 22 points.Other 4 players = 144 minutes 52 points.Hawks lose 74-76.Every sub 90 points scoring performance is similar. Bad bench, starters have poor day. We can't score. This must change.

Let's set the way back machine to March 19, 2012. Boston game at Atlanta. Hawks lose 79-76Hawks rotation this game was:TeagueHinrich/StackhouseJJ/McgradyJosh/IvanZaza/CollinsOkay.....Remove JJ add Horford and Jenkins. Add in Farmar, Morrow, Petro and 13 million to upgrade Stack/Mcgrady/Collins or Ivan. Or add Farmar, Morrow, Lopez and 5 million.Do the Hawk win that game? Yes, they do.

You weren't lottery bound last year without Horford, you surely won't be lottery bound without Joe +13 million

Diesel, let's play what if. What if John Jenkins can give you 15, 2, 3 in the NBA? Not crazy talk, I'm just throwing out numbers. For a player of his scoring ability, 15 per game is a reasonable 2 year number. Arguably, Joe's numbers are better. No argument there.My question to you is. Will the 19 million dollar trade off between Jenkins and Johnson net you 3.8 points, 2 rebounds, 1 assist per game in your other areas of your roster?

As long as his contract is on the books Joker, you aren't going to get that PG/Center you covet.

There's a reason they call it silly season. Joe Johnson 2005-2006 25ppg, 4.2rpg, 4.4 apg, 1.1 spg 2011-2012 18.8ppg, 3.7rpg, 3.9apg, .8 spg Joe Johnson PER 2011-2012 - qualified players. 18.5 - 56th in the NBA. 5th among SG. 3 per above Gerald Green and Tony Allen. Joe doesn't suck but when you try and justify a 20 million dollar contract for the 56th rated player...you are reaching. By your logic, Gerald Green is worth 16 million.

Okay, this is by far the stupidest thing I've ever heard said on the squawk in all my time of visiting here. Added to the squad in Joe's time here.Smith (2nd year)HorfordPachulia (first year)CrawfordTeagueBibbyMarvin (1st year)NBA starter on the roster year 1 - Al Harrington.Joe did not build this house. Smith, Horford, Williams and cast's improvement did.Remember we lost 13 the year before Joe, we won 26 the next year but we also moved Josh to the starting lineup, added Marvin (8.5, 4.9), Zaza (11.7 and 7.9) the same year replacing nothing of value. We sucked the next year and the following year until we added Bibby. Joe is not a requirement to win here.

The problem with that thinking is if you don't make the trade, you don't have money in free agency at all.Next year you have Joe, Teague, Marvin, Al, Jenkins for 41 million plus a good bit in cap holds. You won't be able to afford a player better than Josh. At the same time, Joe's game will be in continual decline.

Teague 1 year olderFarmar>PargoJenkins<JJMorrow>Hinrich, GreenMarvin last year, 1 year olderJosh, Al, Zaza all 1 year newer.It's the same team or better....it is all a matter of how you look at it. The difference is we have 4 more players and 4 million less committed than this time Thursday afternoon. Cap room going forward and our future picks in tack. When you looked at the future of Joe 2 years from now at 21 million...you aren't thinking this through.Next year you were either going to lose Josh, keep an aging Joe or keep Josh, trade Joe for assets/cap room. We chose the latter.This move with the possibility of moving Marvin, Zaza expiring, etc...put you in position to make a play at free agents next year.

You need to rethink this.Teague/FarmarJenkins/MorrowMarvinJosh/ScottAl/Zaza/Petro$57 million. Effectively 13-15 million before the LT. It's a good starting point. There will be $16 million in expirings at the end of the year plus Marvin on his option year of 7.5 million.

Diesel,All 3 players are on 1 years deals. Essentially if we do this deal, we get a backup center and point guard. We play Jenkins at the 2, Morrow backs him up.3 players brings us to 10 players (including our picks) and we'll only have about $57 million in cap committed. We can then use our mid level extension to get a player.Don't believe these players will stay either...they are all expirings and can be trade chips. This is a good deal for the Hawks...not great, but good.Also, this trade frees up space to sign Josh next year. Marvin and or Zaza can be packaged with any of these players now to retool. You are rebuilding with Teague, Jenkins, Josh, Al and whatever these players, Marvin/Zaza bring you.

The deal currently is:MorrowFarmarPetro (all 1 year remaining, totaling 11.75 million) + one resigned FA.The available free agents are:Gerald WallaceDeshawn StevensonDamion JonesShelden WilliamsGerald GreenMy guess is Stevenson or Wallace.However, we don't need to take anything back more than the basics. They have tons of room.