thecampster

I don't think that's true. Not many teams outside of maybe Us and Houston will offer a lot for a 1 yr rental. IF Dwight doesn't get what he wants, he's leaving.

That's why Brooklyn is kinda in the drivers seat. They can really wait Orlando out. They can push for Dwight after Wallace's contract goes tradable and offer Wallace, Lopez, and Picks... Plus.. if they do the Joe trade and Orlando refuses to deal, they get Deron this year and next year when Dwight is a FA, they can Amnesty Joe to make room for Dwight's contract.

So Brooklyn is not so dumb.

Second time today I'm going to tell you this. NJ can not amnesty JJ. You can only amnesty a player you signed or that was traded for before the new CBA. You can't trade a player you trade for this summer.

Assume the JJ trade goes through with just Petro, Morrow, Farmar and an unprotected future first coming back (say 2014). The money saved allows you to sign Chris Kaman. That move allows you to move Marvin+ for someone else (assuming you could take back about a 12 million dollar player. Are you onboard?Teague/FarmarJenkins/MorrowJosh/Marvin (or other)Al/Mike ScottKaman/Zaza+3 playersSorry but that second unit looks pretty good, young.

What do you think about this Jordan Williams kid? Seems he has some really good potential and he's pretty young.

10 deep. Teams that win the championship are 10 deep. The Heat had Battier, Chalmers, Cole, Miller, Turiaf, Cole all play a role for them this year. I'll take any non-Geritol taking NBA player at this point.

For a non-committed Dwight which is what we both were referring too. Come on, you have to read before you insult.

He was non-committed at the time. Yes I read it first and be fair....I insulted both of us.

I don't know, for a non-committed Dwight, it's hard to get much better than Lopez and fillers. Dwight will easily walk from most teams.

Which is why neither you nor I are NBA GMs. There are about 20 teams that would offer much better than Lopez and fillers. For example, we would have given Horford, Marvin, Zaza and our first this year to get him (and their bad Hedo contract) at the trade deadline last year.

We ALL know Joes contract is awful. His most loyal fans (I'm talking back to Arkansas) will admit his contract is awful. However, the idea that Joe is actually good angers me. Joe Johnson isn't a top 15 SG in the NBA. His numbers would say otherwise, but when you look at them closely, you will see most of the time Joe gets 5-7 useless points at the end of most games. In reality, most nights, Joe has a "tough night" every other night. Every time I look up he is 3-14 with 9 points or whatever.A list of SGS I would rather have (In no order)KobeWadeHardenMarshawn BrooksKevin MartinEric GordonManuStephon JacksonMarcus ThorntonWesley MatthewsJason TerryGerald HendersonPaul GeorgeOj MayoLandry FieldsDemar DerozanWes JohnsonThrow John Jenkins the guy we got in the draft the other night in there as well.Bottom line is this. Joe Johnson is a scrub at this point in his career. If you shoot 30 times a night, SOMETHING will drop. If Danny Ferry pulls this off, I will NEVER question him again.

I would like to take this moment and distance myself from this post. I never said Joe wasn't a good SG. I just said he's way over valued.Assume for a moment that there are 10 top tier contracts. 10 players that deserve the max. Then 10 more who deserve near max. Then 10 more who are in the 13-14 category. Joe is at the end of this group or below. He was 56 in PER this year among qualified players. In my world, I would prefer the 10-13 category player and 7-10 million in cap relief than over paying 7 million for Joe...that's just me.

The deal is:

Anthony Morrow

,

Jordan Farmar

,

Johan Petro

and

Jordan Williams

plus a first round pick in 2013.

Depending on the Deron situation that 1st round pick could be a top 10 pick.

Can't trade your own 1st round pick in back to back years.

If you really consider it. Let's say Orlando doesn't trade Howard. If JJ can get Deron resigned, the Nets could possibly Amnesty JJ and have 20 Million in cap room to sign say.. D-12. A Russian Billionaire can do what he wants. It's funny but if the NBAPU can get the NBA to declare Howard a FA, you may see this happen now.. or D-12 come in for a 1 yr deal with the Nets only to reup next year at a higher bid.What has me puzzled is Marshon Brooks?Really? This guy is the linchpin? Well, I think i get it.

You can't amnesty traded for players.

Or let's try Jan 3, 2012. Chicago game at Chicago.Teague, Joe, Marvin, Smith, HorfordStories of the game. Joe plays 40 minutes, scores 10 points on 3-17 shooting.Bench plays 56 total minutes scoring 12 points. Joe plus bench = 96 minutes, 22 points.Other 4 players = 144 minutes 52 points.Hawks lose 74-76.Every sub 90 points scoring performance is similar. Bad bench, starters have poor day. We can't score. This must change.

Combineing three solid players like marvin doesn't equal joe's true value so how is three perma bench players marshon brooks and jordan farmar's going to equal it.Brooks reminds me of nick young and farmar is below avg pg. Both of these guys should never be starters in the nba ever.

Let's set the way back machine to March 19, 2012. Boston game at Atlanta. Hawks lose 79-76Hawks rotation this game was:TeagueHinrich/StackhouseJJ/McgradyJosh/IvanZaza/CollinsOkay.....Remove JJ add Horford and Jenkins. Add in Farmar, Morrow, Petro and 13 million to upgrade Stack/Mcgrady/Collins or Ivan. Or add Farmar, Morrow, Lopez and 5 million.Do the Hawk win that game? Yes, they do.

Trading Joe might be the best thing for the Hawks long term, but short term we are going to probably be lottery bound.It'll be hard watching Josh run the show with no restraints....bad jumper after bad jumper, completely ignoring teammates, bringing the ball up, shouting at Teague, being the man.....sighsend out Josh and build around Teague and Horf, and this team might actually be watchable

You weren't lottery bound last year without Horford, you surely won't be lottery bound without Joe +13 million

OK... You will see. If you read the title of my post I said implosion here and Dynasty in Brooklyn. What will we do when we are in the same conference as Miami's big three and Deron, Johnson, and D-12 in Brooklyn? Not to mention Boston?We will never make it to the finals at this rate. We'll be a feeder team with capspace.A team for FAs to use to get better contracts.I wanna wait til I see the whole deal laid out.. However, I can see how they would trade us some of their undesirables. Trade Orlando Lopez and picks for D-12. Then resign Deron (Bird Rights) and have a monster in Brooklyn. I guess the first trade has to be for D-12 because Hennigan is not stupid enough to hand Brooklyn a dynasty. We would.

Diesel, let's play what if. What if John Jenkins can give you 15, 2, 3 in the NBA? Not crazy talk, I'm just throwing out numbers. For a player of his scoring ability, 15 per game is a reasonable 2 year number. Arguably, Joe's numbers are better. No argument there.My question to you is. Will the 19 million dollar trade off between Jenkins and Johnson net you 3.8 points, 2 rebounds, 1 assist per game in your other areas of your roster?

Hots and camp, since he signed the new deal, our personnal is worse go from a real pg to a lou williams and bobby jackson type. Go from jamal to willie green. Just those two players made a big difference and joe was even more efficent last year. Joe is not the problem. The lack of a playmaking pg, more true center depth and I don't consider guys like collins depth and a lack of balance in the starting five is the issue.

As long as his contract is on the books Joker, you aren't going to get that PG/Center you covet.

The point is that Joe.. on the court is still one of the best players in the game. You say... watch he will decline. Well, he hasn't declined yet.

There's a reason they call it silly season.

Joe Johnson 2005-2006

25ppg, 4.2rpg, 4.4 apg, 1.1 spg

2011-2012

18.8ppg, 3.7rpg, 3.9apg, .8 spg

Joe Johnson PER 2011-2012 - qualified players.

18.5 - 56th in the NBA. 5th among SG. 3 per above Gerald Green and Tony Allen.

Joe doesn't suck but when you try and justify a 20 million dollar contract for the 56th rated player...you are reaching. By your logic, Gerald Green is worth 16 million.

í kind of laughed when hots said michael finley. Naw hots, finley lost his athleticism while joe's personnel just got worse and worse and worse. Most of joe's decline is due to what's around him in atlanta.

Okay, this is by far the stupidest thing I've ever heard said on the squawk in all my time of visiting here. Added to the squad in Joe's time here.Smith (2nd year)HorfordPachulia (first year)CrawfordTeagueBibbyMarvin (1st year)NBA starter on the roster year 1 - Al Harrington.Joe did not build this house. Smith, Horford, Williams and cast's improvement did.Remember we lost 13 the year before Joe, we won 26 the next year but we also moved Josh to the starting lineup, added Marvin (8.5, 4.9), Zaza (11.7 and 7.9) the same year replacing nothing of value. We sucked the next year and the following year until we added Bibby. Joe is not a requirement to win here.

It takes more than money to attract free agents. If anyone should know this it should be Hawks fans. First and foremost, top free agents want to go somewhere that they have a chance to win. What happens if we trade Joe then lose Josh in Free Agency? SOL?

The problem with that thinking is if you don't make the trade, you don't have money in free agency at all.Next year you have Joe, Teague, Marvin, Al, Jenkins for 41 million plus a good bit in cap holds. You won't be able to afford a player better than Josh. At the same time, Joe's game will be in continual decline.

That team is 8th seed. How the hell can we attract fa's to come to atlanta. This is a bad move just based around the fact that we will be ass. I wouldn't rebuild around most of our players aside from horford.

Teague 1 year olderFarmar>PargoJenkins<JJMorrow>Hinrich, GreenMarvin last year, 1 year olderJosh, Al, Zaza all 1 year newer.It's the same team or better....it is all a matter of how you look at it. The difference is we have 4 more players and 4 million less committed than this time Thursday afternoon. Cap room going forward and our future picks in tack. When you looked at the future of Joe 2 years from now at 21 million...you aren't thinking this through.Next year you were either going to lose Josh, keep an aging Joe or keep Josh, trade Joe for assets/cap room. We chose the latter.This move with the possibility of moving Marvin, Zaza expiring, etc...put you in position to make a play at free agents next year.

I know joe haters love this but I am not feeling this at all. I already starting to hate danny ferry. If we don't lant machado. I am done with this team. This much incompetence is too much for me. We are stuck is milwaukee land after this deal

You need to rethink this.Teague/FarmarJenkins/MorrowMarvinJosh/ScottAl/Zaza/Petro$57 million. Effectively 13-15 million before the LT. It's a good starting point. There will be $16 million in expirings at the end of the year plus Marvin on his option year of 7.5 million.

Did you guys even read the article.Joe for Farmer, Petro, Morrow, and a free agent.So, we trade one of our best guys and we get back those guys that made up the losing team from last year...There will not be much cap room in this... so forget about getting D-12.If this goes... This will be a funny read in years to come...

Diesel,All 3 players are on 1 years deals. Essentially if we do this deal, we get a backup center and point guard. We play Jenkins at the 2, Morrow backs him up.3 players brings us to 10 players (including our picks) and we'll only have about $57 million in cap committed. We can then use our mid level extension to get a player.Don't believe these players will stay either...they are all expirings and can be trade chips. This is a good deal for the Hawks...not great, but good.Also, this trade frees up space to sign Josh next year. Marvin and or Zaza can be packaged with any of these players now to retool. You are rebuilding with Teague, Jenkins, Josh, Al and whatever these players, Marvin/Zaza bring you.

The deal currently is:MorrowFarmarPetro (all 1 year remaining, totaling 11.75 million) + one resigned FA.The available free agents are:Gerald WallaceDeshawn StevensonDamion JonesShelden WilliamsGerald GreenMy guess is Stevenson or Wallace.However, we don't need to take anything back more than the basics. They have tons of room.

Using Hollinger's PER model, Scott was tops in that category according to the article.

Not a perfect metric but there is something to it.

Name-----------------PER

Mike Scott----------- 30.7

Jae Crowder ----------28.9

Kevin Jones -----------28.6

John Shurna --------- 27.6

Eric Griffin------------26.5

Mitchell Watt---------26.5

Draymond Green----26.1

JaMychal Green-----25.2

Terrence Jones-------24.3

Royce White--------22.9

Perry Jones III-----21.2

Moe Harkless-------21

Quincy Miller---------19.3

Tornike Shengelia----12.2

I said this in an earlier post and I'm going to say it again. We were held to 90 or less points 24 times last year. We lost 22 of those games. We lost 26 total for the year.Score less than 91 we are 2-22. Score 91 or more we are 38-4. These two picks were about scoring 6-10 more points in those 22 losses. We lost by 7 or less 12 times last year and missed the the top seed by 10 games. Horford healthy, more consistent scoring when Joe/Josh have off nights = the next step. We shall see.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkLCSw2TZtM

im excited about the pick

Interesting in this video in the last 2 possessions he is running point in the 3 on 3 game and makes 2 good passes. In the first possession, whoever the big was was super slow coming to the ball. That one possession would have made me pass on him. Rule one for big man is follow the guard when he gets in the lane...guy was flatfooted. 1:25 mark

People criticize his size as well. Let's compare him to a great player of the past who he compares with very wellReggie Miller vs John Jenkins last year of collegeRM JJ6'7" 6'4"185lbs 215lbsFG% 54.33Pt% 43.9ppg 22.3rpg 5.4apg 2.2Reggie wins with 2.4 ppg, 4 rpg. Reggie was the 11th player taken his year. Jenkins was 23. We would be lucky for Jenkins to become 3/4 of a Reggie Miller. They are very comparable players.