thecampster

You missed one..Keep Joe... Trade Josh and Marvin for Gasol...Championship run!!!!

Gasol + Bynum + Kobe = 2nd round exit this year.You honestly believe that Joe + AL > Kobe + Bynum ...... Delusional

The point you're missing is that based off what's been reported and what also came out Josh's own mouth (about the fans and about only being under contract for one more year), it's most likely a false assumption to think that trading Joe automatically means Josh will stay. Again, he has multiple reasons he wants out. Could money be one? Sure, but it isn't the only one. For the record, I'm not against trading Joe to get out of that hideous contract. It would be great to do that and get back usable pieces in the process. However, even if that were done, it most likely won't change Josh's desire to play elsewhere.

Keep Joe, Josh walks ... lottery bound. An aging Joe, little cap room and Horford out of position = 30 win season at best.Trade Joe, Josh walks ... options exist to afford a star to team with Horford/Teague.Trade Joe, Josh stays ... questions now surround what did we get back...are we better.There is only one option....Trade Joe.

I think it's a huge reach to assume that if you trade Joe, Josh will stay. Josh has multiple reasons for wanting out apparently.My suspicion (and I could be wrong) is the Hawks will try to trade Josh. I don't think they're going to want to or be able to pay Josh what he would want to stay. I also think the ASG is still trying to sell the team and a team with stable assets would be more attractive. There's no guarantee they could sell the team before the end of next season at which point, Smith is gone for nothing. I don't think they'll risk it (they would be dumb if they did).

But if you keep Joe, you can not sign Smith. It is as simple as that. Keep a 33 year old shooting guard whose production has declined steadily for years or sign a 28 year old in his prime. That's next year's decision. Trading Joe for 3 smaller pieces this year makes that decision a whole lot easier.Basically, the decision on Joe comes down like this. Joe plus 2 vet mins or 3 salaries that average 7 million. None of the 7 million players = Joe but when you factor in 3 players that can improve us at Center or point guard...then you have something. Here is an example. Joe and Marvin (or Zaza) to Detroit for Villanueva, Prince (or Stuckey), Gordon (future pick). These salaries are very similar, almost identical. None of the players I've mentioned are Joe quality. But this puts 1 or 2 extra players on our roster for the same salary. Every piece from Detroit is movable this year or next. This is not the only deal possible, but it is what you want to do if you are going to spread out Joe's salary, get a consistent bench and create a team that will keep Josh...attract other players. Don't do this type of a thing and Josh is gone anyway as Joe's increasing salary and Teague's coming payday eat up the cap.

my statement was going off of previous article posts...not solid math. The principle still holds and is worse. the point of my explanation was to simplify it for those that think...amnesty = signing Kobe and Dwight. Similar thought. The same principle applies for those saying....trade Josh for a draft pick. When you are as committed as we are and then get a top 5 pick. The relief is about 11 million. But that doesn't translate into 11 million in cap space...only 6+ million. It's lunacy.

This is why I laugh so hard at people saying "we're trading Smoove, amnesty Joe, Marvin, etc". Joe, Josh, Al, Marvin and Zaza together almost = the cap. So if you get rid of any of the 5, you have to get equal value back.You can't "trade" Josh and get back even close to equal numbers. It matters because you won't have room to sign anyone else.You can't "Amnesty" Joe or Marvin because you won't get back equal value signing a free agent. The agent you sign can only be about 2 million less than the player earns because he won't be ours and the signing puts us over the cap. So in Joe's case you can get 1 - 17 million player. Marvin's case 1 - 5 or 6 million dollar player. If I or others haven't been clear on this before, I hope this explains it. Amnesty Joe and you have to first convince a top tier free agent to come here. Second, he has to sign for 17 million and third, he has to bring more than JJ at either the point guard, center or shooting guard position. The only player out there like that is Dwight and he is no longer a free agent this year.No you could "trade" one of the big 6. Teague is too good of a deal with his tiny salary. Marvin won't bring back enough because any player who makes less than Marvin probably doesn't produce more (Marvin is very useful on defense). There is no 5 million dollar center out there that brings you back what Zaza does and at his age. A healthy Al is a bargain at 12 million and would bring back the best player for his salary in return but we can't afford to take on more salary so unless Al bring backs 2 players at 12-13 million, it's insanity to trade him. Josh's 13.2 million would bring back a better 2 players at 14 million but you aren't going to replace his numbers at the 2 need positions of point, center for his salary. But Joe's salary of 19.7 million could bring back 3 players (say 10 million, 6 million and 4-5 million) on a disgruntled team who would like someone who can sell tickets. You send Joe and Marvin or Joe and Zaza and you can now take someone else's bad fits. While keeping Teague, Al, Josh.As long as JJ's contract eats up 1/3 + of the cap, Josh will not be brought back next year and you will not get anything for him. He will walk.

First, I don't think you will get just "expirings" for JJ. You might get a good portion of the deal as an expiring. Second, I don't think you get a sure thing talent AND financial relief as part of any deal for JJ. I do think you can get a potential player, pick, and salaries for JJ. Next, what team's are near contention and really need a veteran presence, Sg? Minnesota - Milicic (1), Webster (2), Wesley Johnson (3), 18th pick this year's draft for JJPortland - Might be a way to trade Matthews (4), other filler, and 6 or 11th pick (likely 11th) for JJ..I see Portland going FAcy for their needs.GS - Biedrins (2), Richard Jefferson (2), Klay Thompson (3), 7th pick, +1 pick = 2 years off JJ's deal + Klay, 7th pick, and lottery protected pick next year. Indiana - David West and Paul George for JJDetroit (they aren't "in contention") - Stuckey (2), Villenueva (2), 9th pickUtah - Devin Harris (1), Hayward (3), Raja Bell (1), 2013 1st rd pick for JJI'm not saying these are the only deals, and some are difficult to swallow, but I think this is likely where we are if we want to trade JJ now. Having said that...Why not one more run with Nash (with JJ)!?!W

Understanding the cap and LT, you get nothing for amnestying JJ. The Hawks have 61 million in salaries next year with JJ being owed just under 20 million. 41 million in committed salaries, cap 58 millionish. Yes you could amnesty JJ and then sign a 17 million dollar talent but you won't have any money afterwards for anything other than vet minimums and one mid-level exemption (simplfying it). Which is why I say moving JJ for contracts (plural) brings you back more options.

You amnesty someone with little to no value. That is not JJ. Joe is a good player, just not a superstar. The right move is to send Joe to someone will to send back 2-3 contracts then try to move them.

Yes, I know. I am not the biggest Josh Smith fan. But I was looking at his stats and I can help but think he is the unlucky version of Rajon Rondo. Severely flawed but extremely talented but unlike Rondo, he doesn't have the pieces around him where he needs to succeed. I can see why AHawks89 is always mad. Smoove has superstar talent. He's right, Smoove does have talent. Of course he doesn't have Hall of Fame elite talent but he could be a superstar in the same right as Rondo. Look at this:eWins per36 rates tm Min Eff% Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk e48413.9 James,Lebron Mia 38 .593 31.0 8.6 6.7 1.8 3.4 .8 2.9012.4 Durant,Kevin Okl 39 .598 29.3 8.0 3.6 1.3 3.6 1.1 2.3510.6 Smith,Josh Atl 35 .490 21.7 10.8 4.2 1.5 2.6 1.8 2.2110.6 Griffin,Blake LAC 36 .545 23.1 12.2 3.2 .9 2.3 .7 2.1410.2 Howard,Dwight Orl 38 .550 22.1 14.9 2.1 1.4 3.1 2.2 2.3810.1 Love,Kevin Min 39 .555 25.3 12.9 1.9 .8 2.2 .5 2.279.7 Westbrook,Russel Okl 35 .529 26.3 5.0 6.5 1.8 3.8 .3 2.009.3 Jefferson,Al Uta 34 .515 21.8 11.1 2.6 .8 1.1 1.7 2.189.2 Bryant,Kobe LAL 39 .517 28.6 5.3 3.9 1.1 3.4 .3 1.999.0 Bynum,Andrew LAL 35 .582 21.8 12.8 1.4 .5 2.7 2.0 2.06eWins per36 rates tm Min Eff% Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk e4848.9 Paul,Chris LAC 36 .571 22.3 4.0 8.3 2.6 2.1 .1 1.978.9 Gasol,Pau LAL 37 .539 18.6 10.6 3.6 .6 2.2 1.3 1.778.5 Nowitzki,Dirk Dal 33 .553 26.6 7.8 2.4 .8 2.1 .6 2.018.2 Wade,Dwyane Mia 33 .549 28.1 6.0 5.8 1.9 3.0 1.5 2.458.2 Garnett,Kevin Bos 31 .543 22.2 10.7 3.6 1.1 2.1 1.3 2.118.1 Anthony,Carmelo NYK 34 .515 26.7 7.3 4.5 1.3 2.9 .5 2.098.0 Cousins,Demarcus Sac 30 .489 21.1 13.6 1.8 1.8 3.3 1.4 2.008.0 Monroe,Greg Det 32 .553 19.9 12.6 2.6 1.5 2.9 .9 1.867.9 Millsap,Paul Uta 33 .537 19.8 10.5 2.7 2.1 2.0 .9 1.837.9 Boozer,Carlos Chi 30 .544 22.7 11.2 2.6 1.2 2.2 .4 1.97eWins per36 rates tm Min Eff% Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk e4847.9 Pierce,Paul Bos 34 .556 25.0 6.1 4.5 1.3 3.1 .5 1.847.9 Gortat,Marcin Phx 32 .568 18.8 12.1 1.1 .9 1.6 1.7 1.807.8 Duncan,Tim SAS 28 .522 21.8 12.7 3.2 .9 2.2 2.0 2.317.8 Aldridge,Lamarcu Por 36 .551 23.4 8.8 2.6 .9 2.1 .8 1.887.7 Gasol,Marc Mem 36 .530 16.5 9.7 3.2 1.0 1.9 1.8 1.577.4 Parker,Tony SAS 32 .531 22.6 3.5 9.5 1.1 3.0 .1 1.867.3 Gay,Rudy Mem 37 .514 20.7 6.8 2.3 1.5 2.5 .8 1.467.1 Bosh,Chris Mia 35 .541 21.5 9.2 2.1 .9 2.2 .8 1.716.9 Jennings,Brandon Mil 35 .508 20.4 3.6 5.4 1.7 2.3 .3 1.446.9 Hibbert,Roy Ind 30 .530 17.7 11.4 2.5 .6 2.5 2.4 1.73eWins per36 rates tm Min Eff% Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk e4846.8 Lee,David GSW 37 .540 20.2 9.8 2.6 1.0 2.6 .4 1.566.8 Anderson,Ryan Orl 32 .582 21.1 9.5 1.1 1.0 1.1 .5 1.676.7 Williams,Deron NJN 36 .518 21.9 3.6 8.6 1.2 4.1 .4 1.636.6 Noah,Joakim Chi 30 .551 15.0 12.5 3.1 .8 1.8 1.7 1.656.6 Granger,Danny Ind 33 .533 22.9 5.7 2.2 1.1 2.0 .7 1.546.5 Johnson,Joe Atl 35 .551 22.4 4.2 4.0 .8 2.0 .2 1.476.4 Humphries,Kris NJN 35 .528 15.1 12.5 1.6 .9 2.1 1.3 1.436.1 Rose,Derrick Chi 35 .523 27.1 3.6 8.0 .9 3.2 .7 2.176.1 Wall,John Was 36 .491 16.9 4.8 6.9 1.5 4.0 .9 1.246.1 Jamison,Antawn Cle 33 .474 19.2 7.4 2.1 .9 1.6 .7 1.37eWins per36 rates tm Min Eff% Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk e4846.0 Ibaka,Serge Okl 27 .549 13.6 11.0 .7 .7 1.7 4.9 1.626.0 West,David Ind 29 .524 18.0 8.8 3.3 1.0 1.8 .9 1.505.8 Lawson,Ty Den 35 .571 18.0 4.3 6.8 1.4 2.6 .1 1.335.8 Chandler,Tyson NYK 33 .682 14.7 11.8 1.2 1.0 1.8 1.6 1.375.8 Iguodala,Andre Phi 36 .527 15.0 6.5 5.0 1.8 1.9 .5 1.265.7 Rondo,Rajon Bos 37 .475 13.5 5.2 11.9 1.8 3.7 .1 1.415.6 Nash,Steve Phx 32 .617 15.8 3.7 12.4 .7 4.4 .2 1.385.6 Ilyasova,Ersan Mil 28 .568 18.1 11.8 1.5 .9 1.7 .9 1.625.5 Brand,Elton Phi 29 .516 16.5 9.5 1.9 1.3 1.4 2.2 1.545.5 Scola,Luis Hou 31 .519 19.5 8.3 2.7 .6 2.8 .4 1.29Josh had 3rd highest eWins in the NBA.Josh Smith, in the last 4 installments, rose from 8th, to 7th, to 4th, to 3rd in the league.He wasn't even an all-star, nor has he ever been.Players who have (since 1974) averaged 18.8 pts, 9.6 reb, 3.9 ast, 1.4 stl, and 1.7 blk per game:Kareem (3 times), Garnett (3x), Webber (twice), David Robinson, Bob Lanier, and Josh Smith this year.The Hawks were 22nd in pace and 6th in DRtg this year.Players with TReb% > 15.8, Ast% > 20.5, Stl% > 2, Blk% > 3.7 : Smoove this year and KG in 2004.He lead the NBA in defensive win shares. Stayed healthy in most of all his career. 5th in Defensive rebounds. Was in the top 10 once in his career in steals. High Defensive BBIQ. Great stamina outside of last year when he was fat. Extremely athletic and always explosive. 9th in blocks and is a constant in the top 10 for blocks. Now, bad Josh is also 7th in FG attempts without someone setting up his offense. Not good at all hence the low percentages but someone has to shoot without Al and Jamal. Joe isn't going to play out of his comfort zone. Still Josh is a top tier talent. Yes he doesn't fit but we should appreciate him because in the right system and personnel grouping, he would looked at much better just like Horford and Joe would as well.eWIns- equivalent wins. Assigning wins to players, according to their minutes and their productivity in those minutes. Called eWins, short for equivalent wins, as though all players were with average teams. Players blessed to be with elite teams, and those stuck on lousy teams are, in theory, given equivalent credit based on equivalent statistics, after scaling to team and opponent averages.With teams having played differing numbers of games, player eWins are scaled to the 66 games their teams will play, based on their minutes so far.eWins per 484 minutes are given, where 1.00 is NBA average productivity.

I think the problem is that people love offense and Josh is not a put the ball in the basket guy. He is a "helps others put the ball in the basket" guy. He is a "stops the other team from putting the ball in the basket guy". Those 2 things are just as important as scoring but highly, highly overlooked by the casual fan.This is also why Al is so valuable. Al can not get his own shot as well, but shoots a better percentage and is only marginably less than Josh in the other 2 facets. These 2 are off limits in my book, everyone else is a possibility

I noticed that a couple of days ago. It's clear that both Marvin will go due to the lack of talent at his position and his contract is finally reasonable and Smith will likely go to depending on his trade value.That should give us around 12 million in true cap space after the lotto draft pick cap hold.Barnes, MKG, Marshall, Drummond, Beal, Lamb should be one of our guys.We see have money for two quality players in FA. Mayo and a backup level center like Daly or Camby.We could try to land Nash as well but that's highly unlikely since Nash has to want to play in Atlanta.

Sadly, thinking that "Josh" will go when he has no cap hit next year and the problem gets worse with JJ's salary and Teague's impending new salary is financial suicide. This would propel the team toward the lottery in the future. The only solution is moving JJ for 3 low-mid-level salary players to spread out the salary.True that Josh would yield more in return, but Josh's salary is more akin to a trade deadline deal and not an off-season deal. JJ for 3 average players creates more flexibility (think the Melo to NY deal).

Zaza, Marvin and our 1st works for Cousins/SalmonsNot enough to make it happen, but they aren't happy with either Salmon's (3 years left) play or Cousins' attitude. I'd be happy to make it this year's first and one in a few years.

My order of preference with 1st being the best:DeMarcus Cousins would send Smoove and a pick to get this guy.Brook Lopez would send Smoove and try to get them to send a pick ( probably asking for to much but it is a good dream )Chris Kaman would send Smoove and most definetly want a pickJared Sullinger Do not know that much about him but would need a player plus him to get contracts to work for Smoove

Cousins or Lopez would greatly improve the team but only in a big front court.

I think you are onto part of it. JJ is our most gifted half court player so doubling him is a no brainer. Passing out of a double team requires good options to pass to in order to get an assist. Our leading scorer this season shot under .400 for the series, so not many assist generated passing the ball to Smoove.Horford is our best option for JJ IMO and Smoove is who usually ends up with ball because no one is guarding him when he plays out so far. My point is, shut down JJ in our half court offense and allow Smoove to jack up long jumpers is exactly how the C's played us.

Well I'd buy that but Josh average 4.8 assists in the series...1.3 higher than Joe.

Dude Stockton could break down anyone off the dribble, altough it wasn't with blazing quickness or ridiculous crossovers, but he knew how to use picks and he knew how to take his man off the dribble when he needed to and finished surprisingly well around the rim considering he couldn't dunk and didn't have a whole lot of lift.This is an awesome highligh video of his career, but specifically look at the 1st 2 plays and tell me that's not a guy who could take his man off the dribble with ease.Edit - check out at 1:15 when he breaks MJ down off the dribble for a layup with needing a pick.http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=myMvojT6zIc

Stockton was the master of what I call "lag burst" when coaching. You use picks, spacing pulling your man through and then when the opposing player settles on your pace and pop a gear for a short burst to get position on him with your dribble. Stockton was the best I've seen at this. It made the pick n roll deadly as you had to account for him off the dribble.

We've heard from posters on the board this week that the Celtics only fear Joe Johnson and that is why they double him with the ball.My question is: "Is it possible that they double Joe because they don't believe he can effectively pass out of the double team?"He shot 37% for the series and average 2.7 turnovers with 3.5 assists. But the thought that bugged me today when thinking about this is "if Joe was doubled so often, there had to be someone open that he only got the ball to 3.5 times a game. When doubled that often, aren't 3.5 assists a given?"Was that part of the Celts strategy? That Joe is not an effective passer out of the double team.

Josh Smith is a very talented player... but to say Best player to me means that when the other team sits down to think about how to stop us, stopping Josh is a priority. Do you think Other teams are sitting there saying, we have to stop Josh?I can tell you just what Doc Rivers told the Cs...He said... Double Joe all night. When he steps on the floor, I want two of you with him. When he leaves the hotel, I want two of you around him. The same thing that happened in 2008 will not happen this year. As for Josh, hit him in the mouth hard a few times and then pack the middle. Give him the shot from outside and he will take it.There's not a whole lot of game planning to stop Josh Smith around the league. He's not Blake. He's too proud to be a guy who comes down the lane and dunks for a living. Too Proud. Even our coach says.. you learn to live with the bad with the Good. That's why we need a new coach. A real coach is benching him everytime he breaks from the offensive game plan. NO one player is bigger than the team.Even though we lost game 3, I believe game 3 showed what Drew could do as a coach. We had Joe and Teague and we took Boston (with everybody) to overtime... in Boston. Why? Everybody stuck with the offense. Had Tmac not got hurt, we probably win that game.

Every ignorant basketball post on this board seems to focus solely on the offensive end of the game (ie, putting the ball in the hole or one on one offense). There are 4 very important parts to basketball that are just as important.1. one on one defense2. team defense (knowing your responsibility)3. team offense (from setting screens, moving without the ball, being a decoy......what you do when you don't have the ball)4. floor recognition (ie...playing with your head up)Joe is a better scorer than Josh. You will never hear me say different. But Josh's 1 on 1 defense, his team defense, team offense and eyes up are all better than Joe. Horford is very close, might be better overall.This is why Josh gets numbers...not because he's athletically gifted. There are tons of guys who are athletic freaks that end up bagging groceries. How often before plays are run do you see Josh pointing people into place? How often do you see a player let their man get by them only to see Josh alter the shot at the basket or front the man in the lane? How many times to do you see Josh hit Marvin, Zaza, Al under the basket for an easy 2 or hit a man for an open 3 across the lane? How many dunk put backs, weak side rebounds, scrums on the floor? How often do you see any of these from Joe?Basketball is much more than being able to get into the lane for a floater and it is much more than shot selection. It's what I've been preaching for the last 18 months. It isn't Josh's jumpers with more than 7 seconds on the clock that concern me, it's his jumpers with less than 7 seconds left on the clock and what we did as a team with the ball before that that worries me. We have far more of those than the prior.

Let me explain why the "not built right" statements by Charles and or the concepts laid out by Diesel are correct.A hypothetical for you.Orlando trades Howard and TurkogluAtlanta trade Johnson, Horford and the 23rd pick in the draft.Why Orlando does it? They're losing Howard no matter what, Turkoglu is overpaid, they acquire a first rounder, this is good value in return.Why Atlanta does it. Bringing home the lost son, keeping Josh, enticing free agents, Turk's money is shorter than Joe's, Howard and Turk are a little cheaper.Atlanta tweaks their lineup to now look like thisTeague??? (any good shooter)Marvin/ TurkSmith/ IvanHoward/ ZazaA lineup of Teague, Marvin, Smith, Howard and anyone without broken legs is superior defensively/rebounding to any team in the NBA. Dwight is a low post wrecking machine. That team is an instant contender. As written is about $58 million in salary next year. 14 million to spend on 6 players.It's construction and concept, not coaching or talent.

Things from the interview1. Smith is their best player but shoots outside too much, Horford 2nd and their toughest player....Joe is a good player who is overpaid2. They are too nice3. They need a true center4. Poorly constitutedCharles and I may have been separated at birth

His comments maybe true, but what sense did it make to say that after the game? Many here are missing the point of his motive in saying this as ATL fan support had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the Hawks losing this game in Boston. Make no mistake, sooner or later, Josh is as good as gone.

I resigned myself to that this season. My favorite player will be a Bull, Laker, Net, Knick, Celtic in a year or two and I will be forced to find someone else to root for.

Quoted. I guess homosexuals are equal to racists in your book.

No, he called them fags not homosexuals. Here's the difference http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e12-the-f-word

Celtics had 2 fouls in the first half...1 per quarter. Not really possible considering all the misses in the paint.

I have to listen to a lot of games on radio and replay the television broadcast later. Radio....National...I hate Holman. T.V., I love the guys.

What Diesel has said is what i have been noticed. If you notice on here folks have guys they don't like. Benhillboy is a known Joe Johnson hater. Nbasuperstar40 make it known he doesn't like Teague but their is more Anti-Josh folks on here than any other player not named Marvin. People don't even bother to post about Marvin lol. Unfortunately the Anti-Smoove crowd are the ones that post on here every day, every thread and often. Buzzard, Supporter, Jody23, Nbasuperstar40, Watchman etc. Hell the Mobetta dude use to start threads about Josh in the first quarter after Josh shoots an airball lol. When those guys I named say something negative about Smoove TheCampster and AHawks89 feel that they have to defend him. Thats most of the negativity on this site.Overall this site is mostly negative. Some negativity is cool. Criticizing players is cool but it always turn out worse than expected.

Funny thing is, I'm okay with criticism - factual criticism. The board in general tends to lean toward hyperbole and exaggeration.

Wait a sec, how and where am I factually wrong? I don't agree at all with what NBA is saying about Teague.My comment was about the troll thing and you may not like me defending people against being called trolls but it is what it is and whether I or anyone else agrees with other people does not give anyone the right to call them trolls as long as they are productive members of the site. To me a troll is someone who is on here to do nothing but cause trouble and piss people off and while NBA may have unpopular opinions he's not saying the things he says just to piss anyone off, he's saying it because he honestly believes what he's saying.The bottom line is that by and large this is a pretty good community and I'm sorry that you feel like we're overrun with trolls or with bad posters but I really don't feel that is the case. I know you've been around a long time and can remember when the place was far worse so I'd urge you to go back and think of those times and compare them to now and reassess your opinion.

Troll is as troll does Dolfan.

See Jrue Holiday is a true PG. He doesn't have great or very good court vision. Few NBA PG's do. He's a true PG in the mold of a C. Billups. He is smart, can run an offense but he is still improving on the game and how to use his strengths and BBIQ. Once he gets it which can take years, he will be a top tier PG for years to come.

Jeff issue is Jeff doesn't have court vision unless he's slashing and he can't run an offense. He had the same issue at Wake Forest and lost the starting PG job to Ish Smith. Now Russell Westbrook has some of the same issues. But Westbrook is an unstoppable force on offense. He can take over a game and draw the defense attention and he is a #1 option. Jeff isn't even an option. He's will always be your team's 4th or 5th best scoring option. That means his weakenesses outweigh his strengths offensively. On defense, his focus is terrible. He's no where near as good a defender as Westbrook who defensive talent, strength, and focus is superior. Jeff has talent but he is best suited as a backup PG who can play a lot of minutes. Westbrook has solid BBIQ, Teague has below average BBIQ. Jeff is in the same tier overall with D.J. Augustin, Bobby Jackson, Earl Boykins, Bob Sura, Darrell Armstrong, and Troy Hudson. To be honest, I don't think he has much potential either. I think he peaked. I think he can get more consistent given a lesser role. Maybe he could get better with an elite post player to play through like young TD, Shaq, D12.

I don't get your ppg comparison. I hope you aren't saying Teague= Kidd because that's bs I'd expect from a noob. That's like saying Alan Henderson>Tim Duncan.

Jeff will turn 24, 1 month from today. I'm sure glad I didn't peak at 24. That is one long downward slope.

Jordan had just completed his first year in the league at 24. His numbers suggest he "peaked" 4 years later. I think its a bit early to write the obituary on Jeff Teague after what would be his rookie year for most players.

Post reported for blasphemy.

Mustard > Mayo ???