thecampster

Josh had more points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks per game for the month that Pierce. Pierce shot just over 1 percent higher for the month.

Those numbers aren't accurate. Joe's salary is going to continue to go up and Josh only has 1 year left. He will get a raise.

Oh, he's not cracking top 5 regardless but looks like they've got him 11 based on the writing or 15 at worst.

http://www.nba.com/mvp-ladder/2011-12/index.html

Player of the week. He was player of the week. Player of the month will be announced in the next couple of days.

Very wrong. Joe's shot attempts for the season 16.1...for March 16.8....March brought the attempts above 16 for the year. Joe shot "better" for March because they started running the offense through Josh and Kirk allowing Joe to take many more shots as a spot up shooter and less as a creator. Joe's turnovers for the month went up for the month.

Let me preface this by saying..."this is not Joe vs. Josh". This is about Joe's value. Joe didn't even have the best month (Josh +1.5 ppg in March, +6 rebounds, +.4 assists, + .4 steals, + 1.7 blocks and -.3 turnovers) and he isn't having the best year on his team. There are 16 other people in the league averaging more points per game than Joe. His rebounding and assist numbers are not max quality either. This thread is nice that Joe is having a month that is worthy of his big contract but whether that month is max contract quality or not is debatable and that month is far in excess of what he has given us in some time. This means that either he hadn't been trying before or very hurt for a very long time.

Again..you were quiet the previous 2 games that we lost and JJ was sub par. For the 2 games. JJ - shot 9 for 25....for 38% scoring 11.5 ppg. He did average 7 assists a game, but had 2.5 turnovers a game and 2.5 rebounds per game. No steals and no blocks. He was a a negative factor in both games.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-hawks/hawks-sale-to-meruelo-1217751.html This is where I got my numbers. Looking at the below numbers, part of the reason the Hawks lose money is they are making finance payments for Phillips, the league fund and paying back Turner. Assume a 15 year mortgage at 6.5% on all (rates at the time), They have a $25 million dollar a year mortgage. Or if 20 years about a $20 million dollar a year nut on the team.

How's this for a slow night topic? The lottery is $540 million. After cash payout it's going to be about $350-$365 million before taxes. Assuming the NBA would approve you as an owner. The estimated price to buy the Hawks and Phillips is around $300 million plus bank retainer. Assuming you avoid taxes through business investment having enough available, answer these questions:1. Would you buy them?2. What would be your first order of business?3. What would you not change?4. Do you think you could profit?5 What would it take to make them a champion?

I'm glad the conversation has moved a little. What they are doing is "playing through" someone. You can't play through Joe all the time and we got away from it when Joe was ailing. You can play through Kirk a little as he can draw fouls going to the basket but not enough be a real threat. Teague is good at getting to the rim but not good at finishing or dishing. If Teague would have better vision while driving, we could play through him. This is again why we miss Al. Al is a more diverse offensive player inside 10 feet than Josh is and can take some of that "Play through him" necessity on his shoulders. This is why we struggle when Josh, Joe go out of the game. None of our good bench players have been healthy enough to play through them consistently (not tracy, Rad, Pargo or Green). No one else can get their own shot or shoot the 3 consistently.

FYI, one of Josh's shots was a pass that skimmed the rim and had to be counted as a shot. Technically he took 25 shots.He was 0-4 to start the game. From then on out he is technically 14 of 21.

This is a big part of what drives me crazy. Just look at a comparison of Joe/Josh in the month of March.Joe - 12 games. 23.4 ppg, 4 rebounds, 4.3 assists, 1.2 steals, .2 blocks on 2.9 turnovers. 48.6% shootingJosh - 16 games. 23.6 ppg, 10.6 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 1.5 steals, 1.4 blocks on 1.9 turnovers. 44.9% shootingJosh beats Joe in every category except shooting percentage (by 3.7 percent) FYI at 26 shots a game, 3.7 percent is less than 1 made shot a game. But all we've heard the last 2 weeks is M'f'in Joe Johnson is our superstar. Josh hasn't missed a game all year, is playing mvp level basketball this month (just look at the stats). Turnovers down, rebounds up, steals up, scoring up, free throw shooting percentage up....but he can't win. In my opinion all due to a ridiculous off season training program that brought him in in phenomenal shape. I might leave town too.Take a real good look at those numbers guys while you crawl out from inside Joe's jock. Your power forward is beating your 5 time all star Shooting Guard in assists and steals while pulling down 10.6 rebounds a game.....that alone should make you scratch your head. Without Josh Smith this year, we don't make the playoffs.

And he scored 30. Joe shot the ball 14 times and scored 11. he pulled 18 boards and threw 5 assists and shot 50%...he earned it.

I think Boozer was big for them. I'm not totally convinced on Gibson and a backup.

Miami lost tonight, Orlando won. The Magic are only 4 back on Miami. As previously discussed, the Magic has a fairly easy schedule left. Miami has 3 games vs Boston, 2 vs Chicago, NY, Philly, Houston, Dallas, OKC, Memphis all left to play (Brutal). 11 tough teams only 5 losses ahead of Orlando right now.With their win against Miami, Indiana and Atlanta are now tied for 5th, 6 games behind Miami. Boston is now only 2.5 back of Atlanta. Positions 2-7 aren't even close to settled. Only 6 games separate positions 2-6.....8.5 games between 2-7.

Oh, I realize that. I also think it was stupid to do so. Again...guys...JJ is a good player, an excellent shooter. I just think everyone is getting really excited about a 6-8 game stretch when the body of work for the season isn't max player quality, nor has it been for 3 years now.

Then a better option would have been sign and trade to give him that max contract.

A little farther down I made a topic about this already. It is more detailed and goes into remaining schedules.http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/366273-the-next-4-games-and-then-the-healing-begins/

Again, I would prefer shot attempts to turnovers. Better to at least throw it at the basket than pass it someone with stone hands, not paying attention or who will pass it away with 3 seconds left on the clock. Shot attempts draw fouls, give offensive rebound opportunities and allow you to get back on defense.

You should probably go back and read the whole post before asking me questions that don't pertain. I'll say this again and keep it simple. My comments are and have always been about JJ the complete player and his value compared to his salary. They are not about 1 singular part of JJ's game. There are a litany of closers in this league. They are for the most part not worth a max salary either if you want to build a championship team. If you are happy paying a max contract and 23 million in 3 years for 19 ppg, 3.9 assists and 4 rebounds I say thank God you are not the GM.

The debate wasn't if Joe was good in the clutch, a good citizen, better than average husband or better in wing tips vs. loafers. The debate that got these guys all riled up was whether or not Joe is worth a max contract compared to other talent. That debate inevitably ends up in comparing him to Al or Josh which are completely different positions. My whole original argument surrounds the idea that you don't give max money to a shooting guard unless they are Wade/Kobe. Most shooting guards provide 1 thing well....they knock down open jumpers. Some can create their own shot which is nice when it happens but good team basketball involves ball-handling, moving the ball, finding the open man, rebounding and defense. This is why I value Josh so much. Compared to other Power Forwards.....only power forwards here. compare apples to apples. Josh is a better than average ball handler at that position, an excellent passer (too good sometimes), a good but not great rebounder and a very good but not great defender (he struggles in one on one post defense). Again, only compared to other power forwards or small forwards too if you will. But Joe is an average to above average ball handler at his position (great as a SF but average+ at SG), he is a very good passer (he would be better if that was his focus), an above average rebounder and an above average defender. Comparably at the position (in the concept of team basketball here) he isn't as good as some. He isn't max in my mind. FYI, neither is Josh. Josh is a good but lazy rebounder and has tendencies in his defense that make him porous one on one in the post. However, I do think Josh is more valuable based on effect on defense his presence makes. Josh helps shut down the lane which is defensive priority number two (the first is stop ball...see the Mike Bibby effect :) ). Joe is actually good at stopping his man from getting a good shot off but his team D, stopping ball and shutting off the lane are suspect.

Then I definately would want Kevin Love and Deron Williams on that list. Deron can get to the basket at will and at least draw the foul (see the game 2 nights ago for a reference).

Lebron isn't on your list. Deron Williams isn't on your list. Kevin Love? Dwight Howard? Blake Griffin even? There's 5 more you might want to consider who are more impactful.It all happened with Michael Jordan. Pre-Jordan you built a team by getting a Center first, then a PG, then a Power Forward...then a shooting guard, then a wing. That was the order of importance. In the 80's/90's a few fellows by the names of Jordan, Pippen, Drexler, Wilkins came into the league and led their teams to the playoffs every year, winning a lot. Lost in that mix was Ewing, Malone/Stockton. Traditional higher need, great players that didn't win a championship and the league decided scoring guards were more important. Jordan/Pippen was an anomaly. Defense and Rebounding still wins championships. Give me Dwight, Griffin in 2 years and/or Kevin Love any day. If you own the lane and handle the ball, you win basketball games. That's basketball 101.

It's 3 or 5 not 4. 4th will go to a division leader. Currently Philly is in 4th. 2.5 games behind Atl, 4 games behind Orlando. Atl and Orlando have the 3rd and 4th best records but Philly is leading their division.This just goes to the strength of the South. EastSouth top 3 of Orl, Atl, Mia: have a combined record of 96-50 a 65.7% winning percentage.Central top 3 of Chi, Ind, Mil: 90-55 a 60.2% winning percentage.Atlantic top 3 of NY, Phi, Bos: 77-69 a 52.7 winning percentage.WestSouthwest top 3 of Spurs, Dal, Mem : 86-57 a 60.1% winning percentage.Northwest top 3 of OKC, Utah, Den: 89-58 a 60.5% winning percentage.Pacific top 3 of LAL, LAC, Pho: 82-63 a 56.5% winning percentage.Sure the south has 2 bottom feeders but the top of the division is just plain better than everyone else.