thecampster

Bogut is by far the better fit.

Picks have value...even pick 20. Two number 17-20 picks and and a 26 year old starting forward for a rent a player at pg who will not get you a championship without a legit center or quality spot up shooters.

Which is evidence enough to why you aren't an NBA GM. 2 future 1sts for a guy who will be out of the league in 3-5 years and a player who is a good size expiring next year.

Simple guys. 90% of the time when Joe iso's, except for the corner outlet (typically Marvin or the point), the left side of the floor is cleared for him to work. The center has the near right block but needs to operate outside the paint in the moment. For spacing, the remainder of Marvin or the point is position in the far right corner. Josh is posted high post to the 3 point line on purpose to draw his defender away from Joe. Now what Josh should do is wait for Joe to cross and then Josh should slash to the basket. However, Joe dribbles with his head down most of the time trying to "get his shot first" and take the defender off the dribble. When Joe puts his head down and the double comes, he isn't in a position to pass out because his head is down. So Joe gets trapped and the pass doesn't come. So 5-ish seconds left, Joe has 2 places to go with the ball. The near corner or rotate to Josh. In this set, Josh is on the side of the floor with the Center, the right corner defender and he is open because his man left to double Joe. Time permitting, Josh should be taking the ball straight to the hole at the opposing center and if he draws him, drop it off to the center or to the corner. However, Joe gives it up too late for this to develop and so Josh just shoots. Watch it 1000 times, this description of "the event" will be accurate, 90% of the time.

or iggy

Joe is shooting 42% from the field....lowest in some time. Joe by the numbers compared to last year. Down .6 points per game (down for the 5th straight year for a total of 7.4 points off his 06-07 average) Down .9 assists per game (down for the 4th straight year) Down .5 rebounds per game (down for the 2nd straight year) 42.5 % FG%. Lowest since 02-03 2.8 FT Attempts per game. Down for the 6th straight year. lowest since 03-04. Joe is talking about Joe and should be pointing the finger at himself. 17.6 ppg on 15.8 shots is pretty average, 3.5 reb, 3.8 assists, virtually no blocks or steals making 18 million a year. Joe should shut his pie hole. Using the simple formula ppg/(FGA+TO). Joe's efficiency is less than 1.01 points per possession that ends with him (not counting the passing to Josh and company with 3 second left plays). Here is a list of other prominant Hawks using the same formula. Josh - .9412 Joe - 1.0057 Teague - 1.0169 McGrady - 1.0492 Green - 1.0735 Marvin - 1.1294 Zaza - 1.1667 Al - 1.1376 If you give IsoJoe credit for 1 of Josh's bad shots a game, Joe is low man on the efficiency totem pole. Either way, Marvin, McGrady, Zaza might have a case. Ivan, Hinrich, Vlad and Pargo rank lower than Josh. Hinrich being the lowest. Don't like that. How about PER rating. Josh - 19.74 Joe - 16.75 Marvin - 16.34 Joe needs to point that finger at himself and say, "I need to step up", not we. Joe is making almost 50% more than any other Hawk. He's making 2.2 times more than Marvin for virtually the same per and lower efficiency with the ball. His numbers are down across the board. It isn't all Joe's fault but sometimes you just have to take a look in the mirror and say, "yep...point some blame here".

I stand corrected. Instead what you find is wild inconsistency 13.11 ppg 4.37 rbg

How about a "when Joe's been out". I think you'll find the numbers better.

So Josh is a bench player in your mind now????????? I submit that in a system where he isn't considered a bailout and with a point guard that passes well in the open court (ie Nash, Deron, etc), he's a 20 pt a game guy. We have a player who is at his best cutting to the basket on a team that runs iso Joe. For all not quite sure what iso Joe is. The design is for Joe to dribble, drive and if there is nothing there (or in his case gets in trouble), kick out to a shooter. In that offense, spotting up for jumpers is what you get. Instead of these, "looking for my shot first" points, give me a draw and kick, drive and dish point guard any day.

http://www.82games.com/1112/11ATL12.HTM 16% of his shots are with 3 seconds left on the clock, shooting 28%. 42% of his shots are with 9 or less seconds on the clock, shooting about 38.7%. accounting for 4.5 ppg There's your answer. 58% of his shots are with more than 9 seconds on the clock, shooting 52%. accounting for 8.5 ppg Comparing the starters. Zaza shoots in clutch time (last 9 seconds of shot clock). 32% of his shots. Teague and Marvin 38%. Joe Johnson 48%. This would support the claim that Joe is dominating the ball too long and Josh is his outlet. Comparing other stars. Lebron 38%, Wade 30%, Rose 36%, Noah 38%, Kobe 41%, Nowitski 42%, Durant 39%, westbrook 27%, pierce 37%, rondo 33%, garnett 43%, Carmello 30%. So it seems Joe's 48% and a second option at 41% is extremely long for a team built to run. This seems to be the case of Joe impeding the flow of the offense.

Total teams in the east - 15. All star team roster spots - 12 Josh - bpg - 3rd rpg - 7th spg - 8th ppg - 16th (as the second option) apg - 21st (from a power forward) Bosh bpg - 22nd rpg - 13th spg - 31st ppg - 4th (but just 2.6 more per game than Smith) apg - 41st iguodala bpg - 37th rpg - 20th spg - 3rd ppg - 30th apg - 9th Deng hasn't played enough games to make the "qualified" list but loses in all 4 categories except points scored (by .2, a virtual tie). 2.6 less rebounds, .4 less steals, 1.3 less blocks, .2 less assists and in 4 more minutes per game. Carmelo hasn't played enough games to make the qualified list and does score 6 more ppg and gets .7 more assists in the same number of minutes. But loses handily in blocks, reb, steals while shooting 39.9% from the floor. He's here because he hits his free throws.

crickets########

Must really have to pee now after drinking all that Hateraid.

Anyone else hear about this? Did we waive Sloan on January 26 and I missed it? That sounds like clearing LT space.

Josh the last 7 games. 21.7 ppg (57% shooting), 10.14 rpg, 3.14 apg, 1.7bpg, 2 steals and only 2.14 turnovers. The only negative in the stat line....21/43 free throws. Leaving 3 points a game on the stripe. Shooting better from the field than from the line. We'll need this effort to continue with everyone out.

Prove me wrong but we have got to have the worst blocking scheme imaginable. We never get push on the offensive line and instead seem to be content to trap block on most running plays (even short yardage). Give me better blocking schemes any day and South Carolina's Marcus Lattimore and you'd have seen a different team this year. I have always felt Michael Turner has been the beneficiary of personnel and not ability/scheme.

The playoffs are all about matchups. I fear Philly more than I fear Miami. We match up with Miami better than Philly.

Does the next coming of Shaq mean "fat, old and team hopping for a championship"? That's the most recent incarnation of Shaq I can remember. Sadly, Siler is none of those things either.

this will be game 3 in a row for Houston. If we lose, I'll be a monkey's uncle. Miami has not impressed. They've won 2 extremely close games on late game heroics by Wade. We go at least 1-1 v Miami. Chicago game all depends on Boozer who is playing out of his mind right now. okay, looked at the schedule, let me update this. Both games against Miami are on 1 day rest for us, but the back half of a back to back for Miami. I could see us winning both. Chicago game is game 2 of a back to back for us...game 1 for Chicago. Low probability we win this one so I say 3-1 next 4.

The deal floated...the only one in question is JJ/(horf or Smith) for Howard/Turkoglu. You have to take back Hedo's salary or there is no incentive for Orlando to do it.

First of all, no one tells me to shut it. Internet bravado only makes grown ups laugh. Second, let's address that "Dwight shuts the paint" concept. Dwight is one man....a very good man...but just one man. Marvin, Teague, Josh with Dwight is a defensive wall. Third, no one is saying JJ isn't a good player. JJ is a very good player. But there is a cost and effect with JJ that will keep us from reaching our potential. JJ is 21 million in 2 years. Dwight will be 20 million. What could you possibly put with JJ/Dwight at that salary? JJ will have depreciating skills every year we go in. Joe = Josh = Al. Joe's salary >Josh Salary > Al's salary. So if = player has a greater salary his value per dollar is lower. This is not rocket science. Joe is not more important to this team than Al or Josh but Joe is more expensive with less upside, more mileage. You aren't building a team for the next week but building a team for the next 5 years. Do you think Dwight doesn't know these things?

Now we get to the better part of the argument. Players are not just production but also cost. Joe currently costs 5 million more than Josh and will cost 8-10 million more in upcoming seasons. Keeping Joe is not an apples to apples situation. I broke this down in another thread about the "cost" of Joe in 2 years. Josh is free agent in 2013 and will command a max or near max deal. If you keep Joe and his contract and assuming you have Horford and his 12 million a year, signing Josh and Teague means no money for free agents. Joe is not a cornerstone. Neither is Al. Dwight is a cornerstone and will be cheaper than Joe in 3 years leaving more money for other players. If you trade Joe, Al you are trading away 31.5 million a year in salary 2 years down the road. In 2013 when Josh is a free agent you only have 4 players under contract at 42.5 million (Marvin, Teague, Joe, Al). Trade Al/Joe for Howard/Turkoglu, and you have 4 players again under contract for the same amount but Turkoglu is in his last year and is a great expiring contract to trade to a rebuilding team where neither JJ nor Horf is. Howard + 8 million dollar shooting guard > JJ, Horf and 5 million cheaper against the cap in 2013 which allows you to resign Josh long term comfortably while getting other players. Keeping JJ/Horf does not.

My statement relates to Atlanta, not to every NBA city. Dwight would have different reasons to play in any city. The biggest attraction to Atlanta is title contention, playing with Smith. At the end of the season he would have a choice of leave or stay. You don't take away his reasons to stay. Is this really that hard to understand?

Oh if only I could +100

You just amaze me sir. I am not going to rehash every thing every person on this board has already told you. We all know you don't like Smith. That's fine. But we were not on his list of teams to trade to. He was the best man at Josh's wedding for goodness sakes. They played AAU together. Josh's Addidas commercial where he dunks on Dwight's statue. If they were any closer, they'd be crying on each other's shoulders during chick flicks. So make this the 364th time. If you are serious about getting/keeping Dwight here, the stupidest thing you could do is to show no team loyalty to a the guy they drafted by trading away his best friend.