thecampster

I'm not sure they understood what you meant here at all...I do and I agree. Let me give it a shot. Pretend tomorrow that you could renegotiate Joe's contract based on performance. He's a 10-12 million dollar a year player based on performance the last 2 seasons. You now have 6 million + under the Luxury tax and a health Joe still producing 18-4-4. Could that 6 million net you enough of a player to push us over the hump into the top 3 in the east and have a chance at the top seed? Of course it would. I think if people would remove the names from players (all players) and look at their impact on both ends of the floor, they would see that we are really a Dampier for a 7 million dollar Center/PF away. Rebounding kills us. People here complain about Marvins salary of 8 million and don't realize that 8 million is about how much Joe is underperforming. Marvin is performing at a about a 5 million dollar level, Joe 10. If you got 8.5 and 18.5 million value from both, we'd be top seed in the East. Contracts and production.....period. Compare Horf/Josh. We whine about their shortcomings keeping them from being 18 million dollar players but in reality we are getting about 14 million in value from each at 12 and 13 million. They make up that value. Zaza if very valuable against his contract as is Teague. If you can move Joe and parts for Monte and parts...it is a better value. Don't look at the player names, look at their production on both ends of the floor, expected shelf life, future trade value. This is a no brainer.

Josh leads the team in Free Throws taken. Has for quite a while now.

No, your having to rely on that one stat is an embarrassment if you can't see basketball as more than that one stat.

Larry Drew disagrees with you by the way about your incessant low BBIQ comments http://www.nba.com/hawks/video/2012/03/03/Milwaukee030212720pmp4-2023242

Your question is so ridiculous given the 4 stats given it doesn't warrant a response. You're wrong and a hater...just deal with it.

Here is how I'll defend him. Josh the last 15 games (FEB, MAR) 18.3 PPG 11.0 RPG --4.1 APG 2.27 BPG

That was funny!!!

MO, You can't defend it but you can put it in perspective. JJ - 6-17, 35.3% JT - 6-14, 42.9% Zaza - 5-14, 35.7% MW - 5-15, 33.3% JS - 5-20, 25% the reality is only JT earned his shots tonight. If you look at it from a points per possession aspect (ie shots+turnovers) JJ - .9 JT - 1 Zaza - .87 MW - .73 JS - .64 Terrible...all of them. You should get about 1.1-1.2 points per possession. Only Jeff Teague came close and he passed on what should have been the go ahead 3 out of fear. The only argument you can make for Josh is that inspite of his dreadful offense tonight, he had the best +/- at +8.

If Dwight goes west, Collins is not tendered a contract next season and a West contender picks him up in a panic.

And when he gets back, I keep Zaza in the lineup, slide Al to the 4 and move Josh to the 3.

Bogut is by far the better fit.

Picks have value...even pick 20. Two number 17-20 picks and and a 26 year old starting forward for a rent a player at pg who will not get you a championship without a legit center or quality spot up shooters.

Which is evidence enough to why you aren't an NBA GM. 2 future 1sts for a guy who will be out of the league in 3-5 years and a player who is a good size expiring next year.

Simple guys. 90% of the time when Joe iso's, except for the corner outlet (typically Marvin or the point), the left side of the floor is cleared for him to work. The center has the near right block but needs to operate outside the paint in the moment. For spacing, the remainder of Marvin or the point is position in the far right corner. Josh is posted high post to the 3 point line on purpose to draw his defender away from Joe. Now what Josh should do is wait for Joe to cross and then Josh should slash to the basket. However, Joe dribbles with his head down most of the time trying to "get his shot first" and take the defender off the dribble. When Joe puts his head down and the double comes, he isn't in a position to pass out because his head is down. So Joe gets trapped and the pass doesn't come. So 5-ish seconds left, Joe has 2 places to go with the ball. The near corner or rotate to Josh. In this set, Josh is on the side of the floor with the Center, the right corner defender and he is open because his man left to double Joe. Time permitting, Josh should be taking the ball straight to the hole at the opposing center and if he draws him, drop it off to the center or to the corner. However, Joe gives it up too late for this to develop and so Josh just shoots. Watch it 1000 times, this description of "the event" will be accurate, 90% of the time.

or iggy

Joe is shooting 42% from the field....lowest in some time. Joe by the numbers compared to last year. Down .6 points per game (down for the 5th straight year for a total of 7.4 points off his 06-07 average) Down .9 assists per game (down for the 4th straight year) Down .5 rebounds per game (down for the 2nd straight year) 42.5 % FG%. Lowest since 02-03 2.8 FT Attempts per game. Down for the 6th straight year. lowest since 03-04. Joe is talking about Joe and should be pointing the finger at himself. 17.6 ppg on 15.8 shots is pretty average, 3.5 reb, 3.8 assists, virtually no blocks or steals making 18 million a year. Joe should shut his pie hole. Using the simple formula ppg/(FGA+TO). Joe's efficiency is less than 1.01 points per possession that ends with him (not counting the passing to Josh and company with 3 second left plays). Here is a list of other prominant Hawks using the same formula. Josh - .9412 Joe - 1.0057 Teague - 1.0169 McGrady - 1.0492 Green - 1.0735 Marvin - 1.1294 Zaza - 1.1667 Al - 1.1376 If you give IsoJoe credit for 1 of Josh's bad shots a game, Joe is low man on the efficiency totem pole. Either way, Marvin, McGrady, Zaza might have a case. Ivan, Hinrich, Vlad and Pargo rank lower than Josh. Hinrich being the lowest. Don't like that. How about PER rating. Josh - 19.74 Joe - 16.75 Marvin - 16.34 Joe needs to point that finger at himself and say, "I need to step up", not we. Joe is making almost 50% more than any other Hawk. He's making 2.2 times more than Marvin for virtually the same per and lower efficiency with the ball. His numbers are down across the board. It isn't all Joe's fault but sometimes you just have to take a look in the mirror and say, "yep...point some blame here".

I stand corrected. Instead what you find is wild inconsistency 13.11 ppg 4.37 rbg

How about a "when Joe's been out". I think you'll find the numbers better.

So Josh is a bench player in your mind now????????? I submit that in a system where he isn't considered a bailout and with a point guard that passes well in the open court (ie Nash, Deron, etc), he's a 20 pt a game guy. We have a player who is at his best cutting to the basket on a team that runs iso Joe. For all not quite sure what iso Joe is. The design is for Joe to dribble, drive and if there is nothing there (or in his case gets in trouble), kick out to a shooter. In that offense, spotting up for jumpers is what you get. Instead of these, "looking for my shot first" points, give me a draw and kick, drive and dish point guard any day.

http://www.82games.com/1112/11ATL12.HTM 16% of his shots are with 3 seconds left on the clock, shooting 28%. 42% of his shots are with 9 or less seconds on the clock, shooting about 38.7%. accounting for 4.5 ppg There's your answer. 58% of his shots are with more than 9 seconds on the clock, shooting 52%. accounting for 8.5 ppg Comparing the starters. Zaza shoots in clutch time (last 9 seconds of shot clock). 32% of his shots. Teague and Marvin 38%. Joe Johnson 48%. This would support the claim that Joe is dominating the ball too long and Josh is his outlet. Comparing other stars. Lebron 38%, Wade 30%, Rose 36%, Noah 38%, Kobe 41%, Nowitski 42%, Durant 39%, westbrook 27%, pierce 37%, rondo 33%, garnett 43%, Carmello 30%. So it seems Joe's 48% and a second option at 41% is extremely long for a team built to run. This seems to be the case of Joe impeding the flow of the offense.

Total teams in the east - 15. All star team roster spots - 12 Josh - bpg - 3rd rpg - 7th spg - 8th ppg - 16th (as the second option) apg - 21st (from a power forward) Bosh bpg - 22nd rpg - 13th spg - 31st ppg - 4th (but just 2.6 more per game than Smith) apg - 41st iguodala bpg - 37th rpg - 20th spg - 3rd ppg - 30th apg - 9th Deng hasn't played enough games to make the "qualified" list but loses in all 4 categories except points scored (by .2, a virtual tie). 2.6 less rebounds, .4 less steals, 1.3 less blocks, .2 less assists and in 4 more minutes per game. Carmelo hasn't played enough games to make the qualified list and does score 6 more ppg and gets .7 more assists in the same number of minutes. But loses handily in blocks, reb, steals while shooting 39.9% from the floor. He's here because he hits his free throws.

crickets########

Must really have to pee now after drinking all that Hateraid.

Anyone else hear about this? Did we waive Sloan on January 26 and I missed it? That sounds like clearing LT space.

Josh the last 7 games. 21.7 ppg (57% shooting), 10.14 rpg, 3.14 apg, 1.7bpg, 2 steals and only 2.14 turnovers. The only negative in the stat line....21/43 free throws. Leaving 3 points a game on the stripe. Shooting better from the field than from the line. We'll need this effort to continue with everyone out.