thecampster

I see a lot of shade being thrown my direction in this post. If you have an issue with me, PM me. Otherwise shut it.

I read the whole thread. I asked for logical reasons and didn't see one in favor of keeping Smith at the expanse of Joe and Al.

This friendship thing is childish and overblown. Even Dwight doesn't mention Smith in his top five players to play with. He mentioned Anthony Morrow. Come on, this is his best friend as you guys put it. Stop it. This is in the best interest of the Hawks, not Josh Smith fans. Why trade Smith over Horford or Joe?

1. Smith strengths are also Howard strengths but to a much greater extent for D12. Howard weaknesses are the same as Smith ones but Smith is far worst in this regard. In other words, you take two similar players who aren't equal and make them a tandem. That makes no sense. None what so ever. MJ best friends wasn't Scottie Pippen but they had excellent fit. Similar players rarely work together in this league unless they are both elite and even then it's questionable i.e. Miami Heat.

2. I seen someone mention Howard is tired of being the only one to play defense. Not only has this never been mention but let's just say he did feel that way, he wouldn't be the only one playing defense if we traded both Smith and Horford. Joe is one of the best SG on defense. Teague is one of the better defensive PG's. Marvin is one of the best defensive SF when healthy. So he wouldn't be on an island in Atlanta which he is in Orlando and even on an island, he is so good he does what Smith does to an elite extent. He's the closest to Bill Russell in NBA history. I heard something to the extent that Dwight and Smith would completely shut down the paint. Well.... Dwight does that already so...

3. I understand you Josh Smith fans see him over all and feel like this is Smith chance to be great. News for you, he will never be great, too many flaws in his game but at the same time Smith is a heck of a talent and is a jewel to this team. I personally don't mind trading Horford and a package of Marvin, Hinrich, picks for Dwight. I do mind trading Smith and Horford for Dwight. That one bothers me, it's too much for what could be a rental. I would want at the least a commitment like the one CP3 gave LAC. I am absolutely against trading Joe and Smith/Horford for Dwight. Dwight with Joe will elevate his impact. Their are only 15 good SG's in the NBA. Even less than Centers. Jamal Crawford is a top 15 SG, that's how weak the position is. Afflalo just got 9 mil a yr. Trading Joe would be a mistake just by the talent in the position. The likelihood of signing one with the MLE that's good and can create their own shot is slim to none. Most teams in the NBA have a good PF. Some have two.

This crying about friendship is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Sounds like something out of a Rugrats plot. But Tommy is my best friend- Chuckie. Like buzz said, this needs to end. If you want Smith over Horford and Joe, just state it but this illogical reasoning of friendship is a waste.

First of all, no one tells me to shut it. Internet bravado only makes grown ups laugh.

Second, let's address that "Dwight shuts the paint" concept. Dwight is one man....a very good man...but just one man. Marvin, Teague, Josh with Dwight is a defensive wall.

Third, no one is saying JJ isn't a good player. JJ is a very good player. But there is a cost and effect with JJ that will keep us from reaching our potential. JJ is 21 million in 2 years. Dwight will be 20 million. What could you possibly put with JJ/Dwight at that salary? JJ will have depreciating skills every year we go in. Joe = Josh = Al. Joe's salary >Josh Salary > Al's salary. So if = player has a greater salary his value per dollar is lower. This is not rocket science. Joe is not more important to this team than Al or Josh but Joe is more expensive with less upside, more mileage. You aren't building a team for the next week but building a team for the next 5 years.

Do you think Dwight doesn't know these things?

This is what I don't understand from a logical standpoint. Some here would send JJ and Horf but not Smoove and Horf. From my point of view sending Josh instead of JJ is a much better deal for us if win now is our goal. I also get all the damn drama about D12 wanting to play with his bestest ( sarcasm to the 1 millionth ) friend, but I also think championships are head and shoulders more important for him.

That is my two cents on this...and my 3rd penny is I highly doubt the Magic owner wants to play against Howard in his own division. So we will have to throw him the best deal by a decent margin in order to make it happen.

Now we get to the better part of the argument. Players are not just production but also cost. Joe currently costs 5 million more than Josh and will cost 8-10 million more in upcoming seasons. Keeping Joe is not an apples to apples situation. I broke this down in another thread about the "cost" of Joe in 2 years. Josh is free agent in 2013 and will command a max or near max deal. If you keep Joe and his contract and assuming you have Horford and his 12 million a year, signing Josh and Teague means no money for free agents. Joe is not a cornerstone. Neither is Al. Dwight is a cornerstone and will be cheaper than Joe in 3 years leaving more money for other players. If you trade Joe, Al you are trading away 31.5 million a year in salary 2 years down the road. In 2013 when Josh is a free agent you only have 4 players under contract at 42.5 million (Marvin, Teague, Joe, Al). Trade Al/Joe for Howard/Turkoglu, and you have 4 players again under contract for the same amount but Turkoglu is in his last year and is a great expiring contract to trade to a rebuilding team where neither JJ nor Horf is. Howard + 8 million dollar shooting guard > JJ, Horf and 5 million cheaper against the cap in 2013 which allows you to resign Josh long term comfortably while getting other players. Keeping JJ/Horf does not.

Because they are best friends and Dwight will not play anywhere without Josh! Chances are really good Dwight will not be playing with Josh next season, at least 29.5 to 1 against him being with Josh and he has been playing without Josh for over 8 years but you drama queens don't see that as a decision Howard will make again. I am confused, did Dwight demand he get to play with Smoove and I just missed that quote?

My statement relates to Atlanta, not to every NBA city. Dwight would have different reasons to play in any city. The biggest attraction to Atlanta is title contention, playing with Smith. At the end of the season he would have a choice of leave or stay. You don't take away his reasons to stay. Is this really that hard to understand?

I got a logical reason. Because Dwight Howard is tired of being the only one on his team that plays defense ?

Oh if only I could +100

Where is this true? Did it come from Dwight directly or is this message board BS because their besties? Why didn't Chuck and MJ play with each other? Their BFF.

For the 364th time. Smith doesn't equal Howard resigning. Please come up with a logical reason instead of saying they are friends.

You just amaze me sir. I am not going to rehash every thing every person on this board has already told you. We all know you don't like Smith. That's fine. But we were not on his list of teams to trade to. He was the best man at Josh's wedding for goodness sakes. They played AAU together. Josh's Addidas commercial where he dunks on Dwight's statue. If they were any closer, they'd be crying on each other's shoulders during chick flicks. So make this the 364th time. If you are serious about getting/keeping Dwight here, the stupidest thing you could do is to show no team loyalty to a the guy they drafted by trading away his best friend.

With Howard 2 things happen on offense. Slashers get space to operate/a running start (ie, Marvin and Smith get better). Shooters get more open looks (as low post doubles are common place). Teague, Smoove, duckbutt are the biggest recipients.

Defensively, Josh/Teague/Marvin get to gamble for steals, bodying people up because there is a shotblocker besides Josh back there. The floor gets smaller.

Consider this lineup just from a defensive and speed vantage point.

Teague

Hinrich

Williams

Smith

Howard

You have 2 shooters, 1 slasher/shooter, 1 banger/slasher and Dwight.

Reserves are

Pargo

McGrady

Radman

Hedo

Zaza

I really want no part in trading JJ if we are getting Dwight. He is the one player who could really benefit from Howard. I don't see Smith getting any better. Same is true for Al with Dwight. Just keep Hinrich contract, Marvin for SF match-ups, and Teague who I believe is the next KJ and I'm happy.

Teague/Hinrich and his contract

Joe

Marvin

Rad Man

Dwight

Trade for Jefferson or Bargs for Hinrich and I am happy.

Teague

Joe

Marvin

Jefferson/Bargs

Howard

That is perfect. Perfect fits all over. Marvin fits any system when healthy. Joe is no longer a #1 option and is an excellent Robin. Jefferson can create his own shot in the post as he is one of the more skilled post man in the game with Dwight's D and if you think Rad is good in our system, wait till you see Bargs with Howard's D. I just think Smith and Horford are both replaceable if we could land Bargs or Jefferson to play with Howard.

For the 363rd time this year. If you want Dwight and want to keep Dwight, you keep Josh here.

Horford was just on 680 talking with Linda Cohn and that other guy who wouldn't let me listen to Linda and remember her when she was young. Anyway, they brought up the trade rumors and that Al's name was included.

Al said it was the first he'd heard about it. Said if it's true then he guesses he's going back to Florida. Was fairly matter of fact about it. Wasn't very professional how they sprung it on him.

Deron Williams

Career averages 17.2/9.2/3.3

Last year (Utah) 21.3/9.7/3.9

Last year (NJ) 15.0/12.8/4.6

Last night v ATL 10/3/1 with 6 turnovers.

I would say that's a pretty good indicator right there.

It's only one game in but looking at Rad, T-Mac, Pargo and the gang....I say let's throw a few props Ricky boy's way. He called Jamal's bluff, went with LD and so far, so good. Remember, he got these guys at the league minimum. He signed them early and often.

I raise my glass to you Mr. Sund.

It will be a blowout...over in 3 quarters.

Organized by ppg....top 6 rotational players right now. Based on 36 MPG production. I know it's only a 2 game sample but some encouraging things. Encouraging Bolded in Green. Worrisome Bolded in Red.

Player xxx PPG xxx RPG xxx APG xxx SPG xxx BPG

Marvin xxx 14.03 xx 7.48 xxx 1.87 xxxx .94 xxxx .94

Joe xxxxx 14.67 xxx 5.7 xxxx 8.15 xxxx 1.63 xxx 0

AL xxxxxx 14.91 xxx 6.14 xxx 2.63 xxxx .88 xxxx 2.63

Teague xx 15.76 xxx 3.94 xxx 3.94 xxxx 1.97 xxxx 0

Zaza xxxx 18.62 xxx 16.3 xxx 1.16 xxxx 0 xxxxxxx 0

Josh xxxxx 27.6 xxxx 11.2 xxx .86 xxxx .86 xxxxxx 2.59

Only real concern for me is turnovers seem very high right now.

Marvin's numbers look good. Al's are a little worrisome. Josh and Zaza's numbers look ridiculous.

Looked like in the 2 games the weight loss did Josh a world of good. Zaza looks focused. Marvin looks healthy/comfortable and most important in my opinion, Joe has focused on passing the ball... I'm hoping those assist totals are not anomalies.

Clark Howard "never by the extended warranty"

The choice for the extended warranty had to do with the cost of replacement. The set was a $1400 set elsewher for just over $1100 at HHGregg who was closing it out.

So the story isn't over but here is where we are right now. I have bought the part myself through Amazon for a paultry $71 and am installing it myself (it's a 3 minute swap). The regional manager has agreed to reimburse me for the part because it's cheaper than they buy but only as long as I'm repairing it myself and as a measure of goodwill. The executive called today while I was sleeping and my cell was downstairs. I will be calling her back tomorrow if for now other reason that to explain it to her.

Because that's how I roll. I'm just doing what I promised HHGregg I would do until they solved my television problem.

You see, 20 months ago I bought a 65 inch Mitsubishi TV from HHGregg. Total paid $1421. That includes the 5 year extended warranty that is supposed to cover all parts and services. HHGregg advertises such on their site. Per HHGregg, the wrong warranty was entered into the computer and their "covers everything" plan covers everything except the one part I had go out. So sorry for your inconvenience sir. Oh no, so sorry for you HHGregg. As promised, I am letting everyone I know not to buy from HHGregg until they resolve why I paid $200 extra dollars on an $1100 TV for an extended warranty they will not stand behind.

I am currently waiting for an executive to call me back.

Wow...our entire team can't dance. But the highlight of the video was Twin in the ugly Hannukah sweater...that was awesome.

Career stats

15:41 minutes per game

6.6 point per game

2.0 assists per game

1.5 rebounds per game

1.2 turnovers per game

career 34.9% 3PT shooter. 38.8% FG shooter

Biggest asset...quick first step...may have lessened with age.

Biggest liability...too small to defend effectively.

What you should know. He shoots way too much as a shoot first point guard having only shot about 40% twice in his career.

What you may not know. He is a smart (though not exciting) passer.

A guy who can draw the defense? That sir is at least a start. If he doesn't start feeding JJ, Smoove and Al, they'll let him know about it.

Marvin looked very good and he is definitely taller.

So the luxury tax is almost a dollar for dollar penalty now? Ok, I can understand the decision with it put that way. But if the ASG refuses to go into the luxury tax even a little bit, how are we going to fill out the roster? We're right at the cap, but don't we still need a few players to have a complete roster?

Complete roster is a misnomer. You need 13 contracts.

But as for our team, people undervalue what we have. Can you name a team that goes better at the 2/4/5 than they Hawks? JJ/Smith/Horford. There are a lot of teams in the league that would like a set of 3 like that. If a team has a group like that, they certainly don't have a 1/3 like us (Teague/Hinrich), (Williams). Most teams are stellar at 2 positions. The Celts of a few years ago, Miami today, the Lakers with Kobe/Odom/Gasol/Bynum are exceptions, not the rule.

There is no such thing as a "complete" roster. But what you are looking for to be highly competitive is a starting lineup of 2 A's, a B or 2 and C's. What you don't want is C, D, E's in your starting lineup. This was the flaw of Miami/Orlando last year. Orlando was 1 A+, 1 B and 3 C's. Miami was 3 A's but a lot of D's. Great teams will beat you where you are weak.

This was our flaw at the beginning of the season. Ailing Marvin and Joe and a D at point guard. When healthy, Marvin can be a solid B. Joe, Horford and Josh are all A/B level players...capable of A's, often play like B's. But point guard was our achilles heel often due to Bibby. All Teague (or Hinrich) has to do is be a C. Our rotation players, "McGrady, Stack, Hinrich (or Teague), Zaza, Twin" just have to be C's. They don't have to be the McGrady of old, Zaza on his best night every night. They just need to be healthy and spell the starting 5. Marvin needs to be what he can be, not what he has been and Joe, Josh, Al need to listen to Stack (assuming he's still here)!!! Joe, Josh, Al don't have to A's every night. But at least one of them does each night.

We have a complete roster...what we need is 66 games of health, focus and commitment.

AHEM!!!! Assuming he starts the whole year?

Talked about in the comments on MC's newest article. Marvin is up to 245 and added muscle in the offseason. I think we might be seeing Marvin at the 4, Josh at the 3 more this season.

I've learned to stop making predictions about what tech products would catch on. I thought Vista would be a smash hit (I really liked it, personally) and that the iPad wouldn't find a market.My first instinct is that this won't catch on. But there are people getting paid way more than me figuring out the marketing on this stuff...

Remembering I work for a very large software company. There is absolutely no buzz about this at all in our offices.

Crawfords choices are down to New York, Sacramento and Portland. Expected to sign tomorrow.

I think you have a better chance getting this done at JJ, Marvin, Teague, Zaza 2013 first for Paul, Okafor

You then resign Crawford for whatever you can and lineup, Paul, Crawford, Smith, Horford, Okafor

With a bench of Hinrich, McGrady, Radmonovic, Twin, fillers

All 4 players for NO would play.

"The messenger". Lol, how delusional. Camp, face it, Josh is gone. It's why, you know, the team has been trying to trade him for ohhhhhhhh the past season now and he is looked at as the most expendable of the core. The team has already been prepared to move on from him and he has reciprocated the sentiment himself.

Like I said, your reasoning is *ss backwards. You see the contracts and think "oh well they definitely have every intention of keeping Josh" but they don't and it's an even stupider idea that you think they will drop Joe because he's 32 to max out a tweener that's far more reliant on his athleticism up to the age of 32 . Sound logic there!

Seriously, the Hawks will actually have tremendous cap space in 2013 and onward with their two All Stars locked up and your thinking is they will be a lotto team cuz they won't max Josh.........fanboys, yeesh.

Financially, Joe will just age with that ludicrous contract and if we can't trade back contracts, no one will sign here. His salary is going to cripple us. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that 21.5 million a season is too much for a sub 20 ppg shooting guard with diminishing skills.