thecampster

and a +1 for you sir.

That's because you give him a 3 foot cushion (1 step for recovery), that's it.

He still took the line of "Magic lost it" not "Hawks won it".

I grew up just east of Chicago. I became a Hawks fan at the age of 16 (duel allegiances) and when I moved here at 21, just started following them full time. My whole family still lives up there. My mom and I are already talking trash in facebook private posts. My whole family is disowning me for the next 2 weeks.

Don't know if you saw this or not but he hobbled a few times getting through the lane on D. He's playing hurt. It's not an excuse, it's just perspective. Don't be surprised if after the season you hear he got work done on his knees. Just saying.

It's because you've only posted 11 times. Typical troll like behavior is to get on message boards, make a couple of harsh statements just to rile people up. Most serious people post a great deal over time, new posters are usually full of energy and positive behavior. Others tend to be trolls.

There is the problem. Steve Holmann really doesn't like Smith and bad mouths him at every opportunity. Had you "watched" the whole game, you would have seen only Hinrich and Smith playing with any energy in the first half. Two of Smith's shots in that first quarter were from Joe picking up his dribble early and just looking to dump in. After the dump, he didn't even move from his spot. It was like he was waiting on his man to double. Except for the one long 2 of those first 4 misses, all 3 of the missed shots were good looks within 10 feet. Take those first 4 misses away and Josh was 7 of his next 14. He drew a large number of the fouls on Magic players (getting Tukolu 2 in 3 minutes) and was active. He committed only 1 turnover for the game. It was an ugly 22/11 performance but look at the rest of the team. Only Hinrich and Marvin shot over 50% from the field. Joe/Jamal/Al shot a combined 7-29 and only attempted 7 FT's scoring a grand total of 22 points. Al to his credit got 14 rebounds and 6 assists. Here is the "summary" of what you need to know on this game. 10 shots. If Al makes 2 of his missed shots (getting him above 50%), Jamal hit's 2 of his missed 3's, Joe hit's 4 of his misses (2 of them 3's), and Josh hit's 2 more shots. All 4 players would have shot 50% or better. and the final score would have been 24 points closer. More importantly, very lazy perimeter D had us chasing the ball around the perimeter to an always open shooter. The magic hit 11 of 26 3's for either 33 points or 11 extra points...however you want to look at it. This was a team laziness effort...pure and simple.

Josh had a 22/11 night but it was an ugly 22/11. Unfortunately, everyone was uglier.

Anyone who says no isn't thinking this through so let me do it for you. Howard patrolling on defense, Smith weakside block threat = every Hawks opponent must jump shoot to win. There will be nothing going on in the lane with those 2 at the 4/5. I don't think many here understand the amount of covering for others' weaknesses Josh does. Offense: Howard drawing a double in the post means 3-5 dunks a game for Smith. Brandon Bass or Josh Smith at the 4....I think you take Smith all day long with a cup of coffee to relax and watch the show. Would you take Hinrich, Crawford, Marvin, Smith, Howard as a starting 5 over what we have now...I'm pretty sure most coaches would drool over the league leading defense that would bring.

I'd still say this one because of the defensive dynamic. The defining play for me was game 3 when he went hard to the basket and drew the foul on Dwight. If JJ would do that 4 or 5 times a game he'd score 25 a game again. JJ is still making some selfish plays that are hurting us but he's doing much less of it in this series and getting himself good looks in ISO's compared to before. Dwight in the middle creates real problems for JJ (much worse than the Boston series a few years ago) and he's finding the soft spots better and utilizing his teammates more.

Certain players on the Hawks would have to leave for that to happen and a coaching change would too. You would have to take a look at Jerry Sloan or another coach that understands the inside out game in order to get the most out of Dwight and what would be left.

Dunno. MrH is usually spot on with his analysis. That said...major props to JJ....this might be his best series as a Hawk. Rebounding wins Championships...Al with 12, Josh with 10 and Joe with 9...tonight. Joe with 6.5 a game for the series from the 2 is huge. More than happy to give JJ his due on that.

Easy answer. Most of the game we are playing a 3 big set with Josh as the SF. With Collins in the game, you are rarely going to throw it to him in the post (see 2 out of 3 possessions at the end of the first half that resulted in the ball being fumbled out of bounds). This creates a 2 down low with only one option set. Whenever a guard penetrates, the SF has to float out for the bailout...same on being trapped in the corner. He's the outlet in these situations by design. It's a piss poor design but not one entirely of his making. The complaint you should make is why isn't he calling for it on the kick, salvation and starting his feet toward the lane as the pass is in the air. That is a better question and I don't have an answer. Additionally, many of these sets are taking too long to develop. As is his position at the 3, he is supposed to take the reset pass, back it out, give it to the non trapped guard to reset for a different play. Because our initial plays are taking too long to set (ie...dribbling when the double comes) and his feet aren't moving toward the lane when he receives that pass, he's opting to take the jumper instead of one dribble and stepping inside 10 feet.

It cause me great pain but I'm about to +1 a drunk that took God's name in vain on Easter. That said...Well put sir!!!!

Dead wrong. JRich crossed the floor and bumped Zaza while yelling at him. Zaza came away from the forearm to the head yelling for a foul/unsportsmanlike (which FYI the Refs accessed). JRich went right after him and Zaza turned on him with the contact. JRich wasn't even involved the play and is lucky he didn't get beat down. As is QRich for leaving the bench.

Actually, that breakdown was brilliant and the comment on Horf was because the rules of last 2 minutes with a close game is take it to the hole and try to get an and 1.

The foul on Josh's layup happened 5 feet from the official who was looking right at it. As the play ended and the ball began to go the other way, the official runs right by the camera. He was right there, it was borderline flagrant since no play was made on the ball. He just pushed him while going up. I want Tim Donaghy to analyze this game and point out every purposeful non call.

Dolfan....you can't be serious. The layup by Josh where he was pushed out of bounds by Ryan Anderson, the blatant moving screen where Josh got crushed and went to the floor and didn't get up right away (in the first), the back to back moving screens in the 4th (one of which Crawford was called for a foul instead of Dwight). Heading into the 4th quarter there had been 37 foul calls in 36 minutes and a total of 23 turnovers.....That is a foul or T/O every 40 seconds. I am not a big fan of blaming the officials but I'm willing to step out there and say this game was fixed. I have no question in my mind the refs were calling this for Orlando to extend the series. Yes we missed some big shots (see Marvin here) but in a 6 point game, the Magic were sent to the line and converted 18 more free throws. Horford was sent to the bench with 2 fouls in the first 3 minutes. This is the very defintion of a fix. Remember the NBA makes about 10 million dollars in total revenue for each playoff game played with the home team making about 1.5 million in pure profit per game.

If you watched the game on TV....there were multiple shots of Hinrich and Josh sitting on the bench together talking about the game and pointing at things going on on the floor. The disagreements between them were overblown. There were 2 turnovers by Josh in the game...both times they were Josh throwing cross court to Kirk and Kirk breaking left when Josh threw right. Given both are here next season that will no longer happen.

In order to do that Celtics must beat NY....then beat Miami (probably). I don't see it. I'm not sure they get by NY but I'm fairly positive they don't get past Miami

See, this is where I scratch my head. Does this stat definitively stat that Josh Smith is a better 3 point shooter than Kobe? Of course not. But it's those that discount the stat as not telling that are just as frustrating. When Josh takes the ball to the rim, and shoots 50%, he also draws fouls a certain percentage of the time. His EFG on this stat is 50% on 3's....but when including his foul shots drawn and made he's more like 62% on drives to the basket. He'll never draw a foul on 3's. So I completely understand the argument of Josh is better at driving to the basket (ie more efficient) and therefore should choose that over 3's. But if Josh is an efficient 3 point shooter on it's own (ie 33% or greater), it forces his man to step out on him some and changes the dynamic of the offensive set. This year, because of his improved jumper, the floor has spaced more. the same can be said for Al. So yes, this does have an impact on the floor. I don't think it should be eliminated from his shot rotation at all, but the problem this year has been that with that space opened, our softs have not taken advantage of the lanes provided and gotten to the glass. So any positive is lost. Additionally, this creates a situtation where the ball returns to Josh in the back half of the clock when time is running down. I was looking at 82games.com and a large number of Josh's Shots are still at the end of the clock (46% in the last 8 seconds...22% in the last 4). Sometimes you have to dig very deep to see if something (like shooting from the outside) is a problem or just a symptom. IMHO it's a symptom of Joe holding the ball and throwing off the timing of cuts and set plays. Fact is, when Joe is posting up an opposing guard and Al is under the basket, the other 3 players have to space and that is what is pushing Josh/Marvin out to the 3 point line. From casual observation and wanting stats to back it up (not sure how), I see our offensive sets usually being more effective when we run pick and roll/pop at the elbow and or our 2 bigs posting up off circle and making choices. Not sure if there's a "player x initiated the play" stat.

I understand the tennis thing. My favorite sport to participate in growing up was wrestling. Why? Because win or lose, there was very little in doubt. I either did good or not good enough. No one could take credit for my win or loss but me. Tennis is very much the same thing. My least favorite growing up was football. Two out of three years I was MVP of my little league team. Over that stretch of time the team was 6 and 21. So even though my personal stats were awesome, we never even smelled the playoffs. But I assume for sake of this thread we are talking about basketball. For me, the most misleading stat is Points Scored. For my example I'll use Scottie Pippen. In Jordan's last year before his first retirement, Pippen averaged 19.6 PPG. The next year without Jordan, Pippen scored 22.0 PPG. The difference was 1.5 more shots per game taken and a greater leeway to shoot the 3 (he shot 2.5 a game that year...less than 1 a game the previous year) and shot the 3 with a slightly higher percentage. Pippen was not a markedly better player that year. He was just utilized 10% more. So too it is with the Hawks. Joe is not the leading scorer because he's better. FG% would speak otherwise. He's the leading scorer because he takes more shots a game than anyone else. This is evidenced by the increase of points scored by Josh Smith in the second half of the season. Josh's shots per game went up...his FG% was mostly unchanged...he scored more. So PPG is in my opinion a system stat except in a few small exceptions. But RPG/APG/SPG are a constant by position. On average, a typical power forward gets a similar number of chances for a rebound based solely on his position on the floor. A point guard a similar chance at Assists....etc. Those 3 stats are very telling within a position. For example, many centers have very low points and turnover numbers. This is due to them not having the ball in their hands often due to skillset. Other Centers (Al or Dwight for examples) have point guard level turnovers but PPG and rebounds to match. This is because they are trusted based on their skillset to post up and pass out of the double team. Stats tell an awful lot, be it in small samples or large samples. My favorite use of stats are to tell if an opposing player is playing hurt. If a consistent Blocks/Steals guy (ie Josh) has a marked fall off in production from an obvious game time line....it would be very telling he has a nagging leg injury. 100% accurate, of course not, but over the course of time stats tend to give a very accurate account of ability and/or hustle.

So if statistics aren't to be believed, then how do you measure?

Smith losses: Washington, Indiana, OKC, San Antonio (spurs were in a very long losing streak and struggling) Smith Win: Chicago Horford losses: New Orleans, PhiladelphiaHorford wins: Charolette, Washington, Portland Johnson losses: Boston, Miami, San Antonio, DetroitJohnson Wins: Cleveland, Philadelphia, Memphis, Indiana, New Jersey, Orlando the sampling only furthers the point. without Joe we lost to teams that would have been close games (sans detroit). But even without Joe 3 of the 6 team we beat are EC playoff teams this year. now without Horford, we lose to the same Philly team we beat without Joe. Without Smith, we lose to the same Indiana team we beat without Joe and are embarassed by Washington who we beat without Horford. Every game is different so again this isn't scientific, it's just a small bit in the body of evidence that says Josh affects the game positively more than Joe and at least as much as Al. there are other factors this obviously doesn't take into account like: who played hurt, who else was out, was the game on the road, back to backs....etc. But to anyone who watched that Washington game, the lack of interior D in the San Antonio game and who doesn't see the correlation, you just aren't paying attention to the defensive aspect of the game. An 11 point +/- in games he does not play in is significant.

It's actually very possible. 1st, how to get Dwight. This trade (IMHO) would have to include Joe Johnson and Al Horford and taking back a bad contract from Orlando. Combined, the 2 make $30, 038, 573 next year. Dwight is set to make 17.9 million. So at initial look, the Hawks need to swing back 12 million from Orlando. But Orlando will want to dump Gilbert Arenas in any such deal who is set to make 19.3 million. So we have a 7.3 million dollar vacancy. Add Marvin in the deal and you have the framework of a deal. Howard, Arenas, for Joe, Al, Marvin. There will have to be draft picks as Taking back Arenas is a negative. So let's assume a 1st from Orlando. That one was easy in principle. Not entirely realistic as Arenas' contract is an albatross but let's work with it. So now you have (assuming Crawford were resigned for the 7.5 million he's worth): Howard/Pachulia Smith (Filler) Crawford/Arenas Hinrich/Teague 71.5 million in Salaries - The you can easily resign Hilton Armstrong, Damien Wilkens, Pape Sy and or sign and trade them later. We in this scenario are extremely Guard heavy if trying to acquire Paul and are in need of 2 more players with no cap room. This is where we move Arenas' contract and fill in the roster. You would send Arenas and someone of value like Teague and Pachulia for a total salary sent of 26 million and take back CP3 and a combination of players that = the same (like Marco Belinelli, Aaron Gray and a resigned Carl Landry or Trevor Ariza. We'll use Ariza for sake of argument. To do this you really need to throw draft picks at NO. Orlandos from the first deal and one of yours and maybe a second. But assuming you can swing this, this is how the team looks. Howard/Gray Smith/Armstrong Ariza/Wilkens/ Crawford/Belinelli Paul/Hinrich/Sy Not much in the way of draft picks in the future but you are rid of Marvin, Joe's contract, etc. The starting 5 of Chris Paul, Jamal Crawford, Trevor Ariza, Josh Smith and Dwight Howard would be amazing. Defensively with Smith and Howard the middle is owned. Outside shooting is solid...perimeter defense is better than average. Hinich/Belinelli off the bench can lead any group. I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS WHAT WOULD HAPPEN. I'm just saying it could be done if all parties were motivated. FYI... Orlando would be a very good / efficient team after the trade....scary good. The Hornets know they aren't going anywhere and would just be looking for value. They've peaked.