thecampster

5 times this year Josh Smith has shot below 40%. 12 times this year Josh has shot 50% or higher. Before tonight, he had a personal PER rating of 20.37 good for 38th in the league (30th among players with 30 or more minutes per game). I've always heard you choose your fight wisely. The Hawks have won 14 games this year. I can honestly say we don't win 7 of those without Josh Smith. The Hawks have lost 8 games this year. I can't think of one of those game we lost solely because of Josh Smith. The author needs to pick a different target. Joe Johnson easily cost us 3 of the games during our 4 game losing streak. You don't trade 25 year old stat stuffing talent because you don't like that he pouts. He's emotional. Basketball is an emotional game. The same player that pouts is also the same guy jumping off the bench to cheer on his replacement when Powell was having such a good game the other night. He's the same guy who lost his mind on Marvin's dunks. Oh and Josh went for 19/13/4/3/1 tonight and once again he and Horford are the reasons we won the game tonight.

I'm really glad you guys aren't my boss. One foggy day head at work when someone else is out sick and you want to ship me out to the top of the Rocky Mountains in Winter.....trey harsh.

The 2 ghost fouls on Josh was disturbing. That seemed to scream of the refs trying to keep the game close. He was borderline on the first but the second was excessively clean.

Just adding my 2 cents here. Half of the problem of Josh at the 3 is a lack of a defensive presence beyond him. Josh can't play up on SF's because if you the get by him, there is no one behind him to contest. Al typically has his hands full with the opposing center. A true defensive center, Al at the 4 and Josh at the 3 gives ATL a team most can't handle size wise but move them up a slot and they are very small. The real issue right now is at the point. Defensively we can't stop anyone. In my opinion, I'm starting to agree with Diesel on the solution (although not the problem). Marvin and Crawford could net us a big and a big defensive SG. I would trade Crawford and Marvin and start Joe at the point. Just my opinion but I don't want Joe taking the Game Winning shot against the other teams 3's. But I do want Joe taking that shot over the other team's 1. Defensively, I would go long since big isn't an option.

Stats from the last 3 games. Josh - 22.7 PPG, 10.3 RPG, 3APG, 1SPG, 3.3BPG, 4.3 to 57.4 FG% (3/4 from 3 and 73% on FT) Horf - 18.3 PPG, 8 RPG, 3.7APG, .3SPG, 1.3 BPG, 1 to 56.7 FG% Joe - 17 PPG, 2.3 RPG, 4.7 APG, 2SPG, 0BPG, 2 t0 46.3 FG%% I knew it was bad for Joe. Didn't realize it was that bad. Good to see Josh and Al picking up some slack with Joe sick. When you are getting 41 points, 18 boards, almost 7 assists and nearly 5 blocks a game from your PF and C it's hard not to win. Other than the turnovers, Josh is playing out of his mind.

After another night of no perimeter defense, Marvin Williams asks?

Josh's shot selection this season. Player------------At Rim-------------------less than 10 feet------------10-15 feet--------------16-23 feet---------3 pointers Josh -------2.5 of 3.2 - 78.59%---------.8 of 2.2-38.5%----------0.0 of 0.5-0%------------1.7 of 4.0-42%---.5 of 1-50% So on jumpers 16 feet or greater he's 2.2 of 4.5....for 4.9 points in 5 attempts. That's reasonable. As long as it stays like this, the only problem with him shooting jumpers is he's not getting to the line. He's dropped by 1.5 attempts a game in FT's and 1.5 shot attempts a game too. Which is why the drop in scoring average.

I think that's debatable. Being a one on one scorer is not the only part of basketball. If it was, Jamal would be best. I think the biggest "problem with Joe's game" and considering him the same class as the top 10 players in the league is his game impact. Joe is not an impact player. He gets his points. He gets his stats but rarely do you say, "Joe just won us the game with that play". Great players make the other team doubt if they can overcome a stellar effort from that player. Great players can "will" their teams to victory. I never get that from Joe. He's a very, very good player but he isn't an impact player. His first year in with the Hawks proved that. They still stunk with Joe. There are times that Dwight Howard takes over a game and there is nothing you can do about it. There are times Pierce does the same. Kevin Durant is definately that guy. Garnett used to be that guy. Barkley and Malone were definately those guys. Kidd used to be that guy. About 10 times a year, Josh Smith is that guy (see last 2 games). Joe does it a few times a year but you rarely walk away saying "there is no way Joe was going to let Orlando win today".

Well since you asked, I'm going to give it to you but don't take this too serious. Joe is too late to react to a double team and finds himself trapped too often. This leads to turnovers or bad shots for teammates (IE. the passing to Josh with 3 seconds on the clock...as good as a turnover). Joe doesn't know when to stop shooting. Good players look to defer when their in a slump but Joe tends to press. Tries to shoot his way out of a slump and often times to the detriment of the team. Joe doesn't seem to have his teammates back at the level you want the team captain, highest paid player to do. This is an unfortunate knock. It's just his personality though. Joe isn't a bad teammate but he is very Joe oriented. By having top salary, max salary he has invited the scrutiny to be a superstar in all parts of the game and his game is superstar on some nights but average on others. I think the issue is with consistency.

Beat writers live and die with the team. They know things the players' mother's don't. Not sure Jack meant that the way it sounded but yeah...Chad Ford was just speculating based on what he knows about our roster.

Interesting Jack. Previously, you've been a Josh detractor and my guess has been it's a preference for Horford. Now in this estimation I agree. If we're comparing traditional roles I would say. C - Pachulia = Horford. There are some things Zaza does that Al just doesn't and this is really a wash matchup. PF - Horford > Josh. Now hear me out. I think Josh is the superior impact player on the floor and is my favorite Hawk. But in the context of the traditional NBA team, I prefer Al in the PF role with Josh at the 3. At the 5, Al is stopped on 2 or 3 moves to the basket a game that he would succeed against a smaller player at the 4. Al is a more impactful player (personally) at the 4. Defensively, Al is overmatched against any legit center in the league but he can defend nearly every PF in the league man up. SF - Josh > Marvin. Now hear me out again. Driving to the basket, there is no real SF in the league that can stop Josh. The type of passer Josh is, is better suited to the SF role. Josh is showing this year he can improve on his outside shooting but his game is best suited to slashing to the basket. Also, there is no SF in the league strong enough to handle him in the post. His weakness here is lateral quickness defensively to stop a driving SF. Marvin is a slightly better on ball defender but Josh's impact off ball makes a much bigger impact. Additionally, were Marvin to come off the bench with the 2nd unit, he would provide much needed protection for Teague/Crawford against the double team. Against second unit talent, Marvin is an all star....against 1st unit talent he is an average starter. Josh's style of play is designed to be a havoc causer at both ends of the floor and I'd submit that he is better enabled to be that kind of player at the 3. Al's style of play is to be a reliable stabilizer and he is better suited to do this at the 4. Lastly, Zaza's play this year and his total buy into the new schemes has earned him the extended playtime. With Etan Thomas doing nothing on the bench, there is no downgrade in using Thomas to eat these extra minutes.

OMG it was the last possession of the game. That is such a reach and Bibby called for him to come out and get it.

Assuming the Hawks take that next step this year and make it to the NBA finals. The real answer is they pay Jamal. They'd then be able to afford the luxury tax to keep the team together. But Josh Smith is not going anywhere. For the current season, he is 1 rebound a game short of averaging a double double with 3.5 assists, 1 steal and 4.5 blocks a game. From the power forward spot. He's not going anywhere.

I understand it. I completely understand it. Some people feel the need to constantly correct. Some people don't. There is nothing wrong with pointing out a problem in a player's game. But sometimes it gets excessive (see Diesel's 800 or so topics on why Marvin was a waste). You can be right on something but actually lose your credibility based on your approach. When you hammer, hammer, hammer away at one glaring flaw in a player's game because it drives you crazy, you naturally bring out the love in people that appreciate just as strongly that player's contributions. The first thing people arguing against Josh taking jumpers need to understand is that there are other people in the world that see it differently. Even if you are right...100% right....there are people that will not and refuse to see it. They prefer to focus on something else. I cringe too when Josh bends those knees at 23 feet, but I prefer to not to put a saddle a mustang. His personality is his biggest strength and his biggest flaw. If you bottle him up, I think you get a lot less of the other good stuff that you love him for. You see it all the time. Players wear out their welcome in a town or get tired of the antics of the owners or fans in a town and they move on and it's in that new town they reach their full potential. Patience is often the best course.

I realize I'm a little biased as a Josh Smith fan but I'm having a hard time with all the hub bub. currently Josh and Joe are shooting the exact same percentage (44.9 and 44.8). Joe is taking 6.6 more shots a game. Smith is missing 5.4 shots a game....Joe is missing 9. Josh is shooting 1 3pointer a game. Joe is shooting 4.3 and averaging 30.8%. I am in no way saying Josh should shoot from the outside more or Joe less, but I'm just not seeing the case for all the drama. The context of Josh really shouldn't be shooting based on percentages is technically accurate. But there sure seems to have been a great deal of space in this thread alone discussing what is a point or two a game. I guess I see it as throwing a guy a bone for all the steals, blocks, rebounds. If it keeps his head in the game to let him fire up one or two and the percentages show it costs us 1 or 2 points a game on the offensive end but gets us Great Josh on the defensive end, I'm willing to make that sacrifice. Psychology is a big deal in the NBA. These are massive egos we're dealing with.

A big audible sigh here. Not sure where he was at all tonight. Might be a sign of the times with the Hawks too where there just aren't enough shots to go around when everyone can score the ball one way or another.

I used to hate these threads but over time they've grown on me (sarcasm). The constant beating of the Marvin taken at 2 threads, Josh too many jumpers threads, Joe's overdribble turn overs. Same threads over and over. It is only basketball and we could go back to winning less than 20 games a year. It could be a whole lot worse.

And just like another poster brought up...His teammates keep passing to him and his coach keeps desiging sets that put him out there. There is a reason.

Last nights's Plus minus, worst to first. Season numbers to the right. Bibby -5 (season 0) JJ -5 (season +2) Horford -4 (Season -2) Powell -1 (Season +3) Marvin +2 (Season +12) Teague +3 (season +13) Crawford +7 (season +19) Pachulia +7 (Season +20) Josh Smith +11 (season +18) Total 3 point attempts through 2 games for Josh 3. 3 pointers made 2. Percentage 66% Total 3 point attempts for the rest of the Hawks - 30 taken, 12 made. Percentage 40%. Blocked shots - Josh = 11, rest of Hawks = 6 (64.7% of team Blocks) Rebounds - Josh = 15, rest of Hawks = 75 (16.7% of team rebounds) Assists - Josh = 7, rest of Hawks 37 (15.9% of team assists) Total shots taken - Josh = 21 , Rest of Team = 129 (% of shots taken = 14%) Team shots missed - Josh 12, Rest of Team = 60 (% of shots missed 16%) Minutes per game - 26.41. Yes, that kind of impact in less than 27 minutes a game. You guys make it sound like he's the reason for every Hawk loss and close game. The numbers tell a different story. Nothing about the numbers bears out Josh having a negative impact thus far.

I love the Saturday morning armchair quarterbacking by a bunch of guys that get sat down in the gym at the Y. Seriously guys. How many of you have as much talent as Josh, Joe, Al, Marvin or even Bibby have in their left shoe?

Last night, Marvin was a very efficient 15 points, 7 boards, 1 block in 30 minutes. If those are his averages for the year, is that enough to get the bust monkey off his back? Would Diesel show some Marvin love if he averaged that on 50% shooting?

Very astute, I agree. I watched Teague struggle with his own positioning on Offense and having to defer to Jamal a lot but then I started to notice the frustration on Conley and I put 2 and 2 together. He was working his butt off on the defensive end.

that was the big thing I saw from Joe last night. He seems to have bought in to letting his points come in the flow of the game and not forcing. Most of those points came very easy. Very Paul Pierce like scoring without the whining.

Try to remember that if Josh won't shoot the 15 footer, people back up on him and he can't drive to the basket and draw fouls. Not allowing him to shoot anything outside of 5 feet limits the floor spacing for everyone. He only took 10 shots total. 9 were jump shots, 8 were outside 10 feet. He made 4, missed 5. 2 were with less than 5 seconds on the clock. He shot 44% on Jumpers and was 1 for 1 from 3. When you consider JJ was 6 of 16 and horford was 1-5, Josh did nothing wrong. 44% on Jumpers with 9 points scored in 9 jump shot attempts is just fine. Al and Zaza didn't play together significantly. Al got in early foul trouble and Zaza beasted so LD left him in. LD used last night to get the subs significant burn to work on their offense. The subs were much sloppier than the starters but they played vicious. Multiple bodies hit the floor...hard glass crashing and intimidating. On one play, Thebott went up for an extension dunk and Zaza went up strong to contest. He got enough to push the dunk to the backboard for the block. He could have easily backed off so as to not risk the foul but he contested strong. That's the best way I can describe the bench last night. They competed strong but not pretty.

I'm sitting at the house...waiting not so patiently. 17 minutes to tip off...GO HAWWKKKKKSSSSSS!!!!!!!