thecampster

LOL are you hearing yourself. I would take a healthy, no knee injury Chris Crawford on this team. He had some really good games for us...followed by some horrific knee explosions, but still some great games.

I can only think of one player in the last 20 years that was a consistent winner, fiery competitor, class act and a success off the court that I would want to coach these hawks. Whomever the coach is, he needs to have been a big man, know defense and be as intimidating as they come. He needs to understand how to get every advantage. That man is Charles Oakley. http://www.hoopsvibe.com/nba-news-and-rumors/articles/78987-charles-oakley-teams-dont-want-to-pay-me-to-coach I've thought about it. I've rolled the other candidates around in my head. This guy knew every trick in the book and was respected by his coaches as more than a player when on the floor. Everyone feared him and respected him. He wants to coach.

And Hotlanta speaks the blunt truth again.

2nd in rebounds, 2nd in FG%, 1st in PER. Nope...didn't stand out at all. Not to mention the silent things he does in a game. Once or twice a player hears footsteps and clangs a layup, pulls up short on a floater or running jumper, throws a pass wide trying to keep it out of Josh's hands. His affect on the game goes well beyond the boxscore. Just like we all know that Joe pounding it for 20 seconds then passing it off to someone else who either misses a hurried shot and hurts their own FG% or makes it and ups Joe's assist totals is an affect Joe has on the game that doesn't show up in Joe's boxscore, Josh brings many positives that don't show up either.

In the first quarter or the first game, Dwight Howard was playing like a bull in a china shop. On successive plays he ran over Collins in the lane. Both plays should have been a charge. Mike Woodson's job as a coach is to take a technical right there and protect his guys. Woodson never stood up for his guys on the court and it showed in their play and attitude. 4 games, huge disparity in foul calls. All of his centers handcuffed and he never got into the referee's enough to get a technical. This series was lost before it started. Game 3 of the Milwaukee series, Kurt Thomas was setting illegal screens all game. He was grabbing and holding Bibby every time they switched. He flopped and bullied his way to changing the dynamic of the series and Woody never did for his guys the most important thing a coach can do once the game starts and that is work the referees. The Hawks lost the Orlando series every time Woodson failed to do his job and protect them on the court. Way back in the year when Jason Kidd ran into him on the court. Way back when he lost his eyebrows. Way back when he failed to install a good offense and let the guards dominate most every play. He failed to earn his players respect and that cost the team this post season. We need a real coach. This team didn't improve 5 straight years because of Woodson, it improved 5 straight years in spite of him.

Yeah uhm....not so much. 6 straight games shooting under 40% in the playoffs. Getting stuck on switches and leaving his cover open for a 3 in the corner time and time again in the series. Yes, he earned the boos. He earned them because he accepted the job. He isn't working at taco bell or on a help desk. He's accepted the mantle of team captain of an NBA franchise earning 15 million dollars a year. He is no average Joe, he is more like a CEO of a company that failed miserably at the trade show and the company stock got halved on the exchange the next day. He's one of the 3 faces of the franchise. He's the man and he failed. He was carrying the banner for the city. The fans pay the salary and he did not live up to expectations. I mean have a thick skin here. It was only a boo. No one chucked bottles. He's still gonna make millions upon millions over the next 6 years to play a game you and I shoot on the playground for free and when I start throwing the ball away and bricking layups in the driveway, my kids raze me too. JJ needs to man up and accept responsibility for his play and his actions.

I like the spark but unfortunately, there is not much insentive for a team to give us much back in a sign and trade. Remember they could sign the player outright. Typically in a sign and trade like this, they are using us to get immediate additional cap space and we are losing the ability to work within that players salary if we don't take something back. For the signing team, there is little insentive to give away the farm. You just try to take back what you can get.

Most starting players in the NBA can average 20 if they get to shoot it 20 times a game. My problem with Joe is what he does with those shots. For the season, Joe took 18.2 shots per game to score 21.3 points. That is a value per shot of 1.17 points. (the number is inflated due to 3 pointers and free throws). This shows a players true scoring benefit. Joe doesn't get to the rim enough and doesn't draw fouls. Let's compare him with a similar player, Corey Maggette. Maggette took 12.7 shots to score 19.8 points per game. That's 1.56 points per shot. Yet Maggette won't command nearly the money Joe would. Maggette gives you 1.5 less points but gives you 5.5 more possessions with which to let other's score. Joe's inefficiency is prevalent throughout his career. The guy is good but this isn't monopoly money we're talking about. Giving him a max or near max deal will hamstring the franchise for years to come.

I would like to vote no and I would like to know if I can vote once for every missed shot in the playoffs.

I really shouldn't entertain this but let me explain what it would take to get him. First, You would have to get him to agree to come to Atlanta. Second, You would have to give up enough salary to get him and some of it needs to be replacement salary. That means trading JJ in the mix. Thirdly, You would have to clear Chilldress' cap hold. Fourth, you would need to send Marvin Williams packing because they play the same position. So here is a "how it could go down". You would have to trade JJ to a market he wants (IE Chicago), Chicago would have to be willing to get involved in the 3 way and send parts to Cleveland. Then you would have to send Marvin to Cleveland and sign Chillz. There would have to be draft picks involved and you would have to take back a salary dump player to make the salaries match because we are starting out over the cap and so is Cleveland. If you were successful (which you would not be because there is no way Chicago is trading enough to Cleveland to help them), you would have Teague, Crawford, Lebron, Smith, Horford and have Bibby, Chillz, Zaza first off the bench. You would then need to sign nothing but minimum scrubs to fill the gap because you are out of salary. Now it's not happening but I just want you to see how ridiculous that is. You have to get 2 players to agree to sign in certain markets that are within their current conference and get those 3 teams to cooperate and all believe they are getting the best of the deal. Cleveland would never agree to a sign and trade within the conference that strengthens 2 rivals no matter what they think they're getting back (which is probably 2-3 future firsts)

Which is why he wants to bring Chilldress back...to relieve that cap hold. Overseas Childress is 10 mil against the cap...in a Hawks uniform he would be about 5...in another team's uniform he would be a draft pick. We can sign and trade Chilldress to the losers of the Joe/Lebron/Wade/Bosh lottery for their picks - scrubs and use that money for good instead of evil.

Joe had a real offensive coach in Phoenix and his last 2 years there scored 16-17 points a game on 44.5% shooting. He did the same thing with a real coach and that real coach made him the second option. His FG% is almost exactly the same here as it was in Phoenix even though he wasn't the focus of the offense and he scored 5 less points a game in the same amount of minutes.

Did you see at the bottom of the article the blip about the Nets possibly woo'ing Pippen to coach. That is one guy with no coaching experience I would take a flier on. Regarded as having one of the best basketball IQ's of his time and a tenacious desire to win, Pippen would be a huge win.

I know you don't like Josh very much but if you trade him away, he is the kind of player you regret losing for the next 10 years. This is a very bad idea. There are better options.

You see, now this is an intelligent add to the discussion. Any time we trade in this situation is if the team that is signing JJ has something they do not need or are in too long of a contract with that player. They would never give you Noah because of his value against his salary but Hinrich would be a dump to them... This is also why this whole thing is so difficult. If a team is far enough under the cap to sign JJ, they also then don't have many players under contract so what they have is very few chips to give away. This is why JJ was a better trade 1 year ago when he was expiring. You had more options and could have retained the salary hold and gotten back Chillz.

I know that, I just mispoke. But you can sign and trade Chillz. It was a lot of typing...don't focus in on the mistake and instead focus on the context of the article.

Joe holds all the cards here. It will be there because it would be there for anyone else that would sign him.

http://nbaroundtable.wordpress.com/2009/12/13/2010-teams-with-cap-space-2/ Ok, here is the next article. To put all this "Trade Joe Johnson" craziness to rest. This is a list of the teams that currently have cap space. Only a team that has space can sign him for what they have available or he can sign and trade but only to a team with equal value. So you see, straight sign, his only current options are : New York – $20.2-to-$23.4 million in cap space New Jersey – $20.35-to-$25.5 million in cap space Miami – $18.4-to-$21.9 million in cap space (note, this is DWade's space). Chicago – $9.2-to-$17.9 million in cap space Wade is staying in Miami so just rule them out. If JJ goes elsewhere, it's to either New York, New Jersey or Chicago. yes there are other possibilities but no team in the next tier is bending over backwards to get JJ...no one. Of those teams, JJ will get none of them over the top and they could only sign JJ if they completed a sign and trade with the Hawks to make up the difference...meaning they'd have to make their rosters weaker to sign him. Now here's the reality. There are 3 free agents on the market that everyone wants. Bosh, Lebron, JJ. Those 3 (DWADE is going back to Miami...bank on it). So Either New York or New Jersey gets Lebron....the other will offer JJ. Whomever offers for either will try to do a sign and trade to free up enough room to add Bosh too. With Approximately 23 million in Space and signing either player to a max deal, you would need to trade away approximately 12 million dollars in salary to be able to sign Bosh too. If for some reason New Jersey bails, look at Chicago to drop in and pick up the pieces....I highly doubt it but it could happen. If it's the Nets, the only salary they could trade to get them there is Devin Harris and that leaves them without a point. If it's the Knicks, they would need to trade back either Eddy Curry or both Jeffries and Gallinari. Both Curry and Jeffries are expiring contracts next year and can therefore be moved to a team wanting to clear space for Carmelo in 2011. So in a real world scenario, what you are looking at Hawks fans is something like Atlanta Signing and trading Joe Johnson for Eddy Curry and then New York siging Bosh to go with him. Then the Hawks can bring back Chilldress to take Johnson's spot while using/holding on to Curry till the trading deadline in 2011 to move for a good player that is under a long contract to a team that is clearing cap space to make a run at Carmelo.

http://nbaroundtable.wordpress.com/2009/12/13/2010-cap-space-atlanta/ Here's the deal in short. this year is the JJ year. We won't be able to sign anyone else with the JJ money. It's resign JJ or pray for a sign and trade. Next year is the Horford year. Crawford walks or is resigned, Either way....money is tied up next year too unless Bibby is traded away to give someone else an expiring contract. This year is Bibby's year to go. This year is Josh's year. This year is Marvin's year. There you go Hawks fans. Money is tied up every year from here on out. We can't get out of contract situations due to long term deals given to Crawford, Bibby, Johnson, Childress. Johnson, Bibby, Crawford, Childress (all three main guards and the one that should be here) represent approximately 43 million against the cap and without trading Childress away, that won't get better any time soon. For everyone stating we should resign Joe, the best option is a sign and trade of Joe for something of value from New York, Chicago or wherever else Joe will play. Then packaging Bibby and the rights to Childress plus a draft pick for a useful player on a bad contract (Okafor comes to mind). This will get us back real depth and team players. Our biggest bargaining chip right now is Childress and a draft pick for whomever loses the free agency sweepstakes this off season. Resigning Joe as you can see by this article would hamstring the franchise financially for years to come.

If JJ drops 30 he'll take 32 shots to do it. That's been his M.O. for his career. For the playoffs this year he has taken 184 shots to make 183 points. He's also has 23 turnovers. That means 207 possessions ended with Joe for 183 points. Not sure with his efficiency I want him scoring 30.

Chillz will be back in the NBA this year. With the financial turmoil in Greece right now, JC will do the smart thing and take the sure money to come home.

No...Bibby has to go. Bibby has 2 years left on his deal. He will be shipped out for a player with 4 years ish left in a package deal to give someone else cap relief for the 2012 season. Probably trade deadline of the upcoming season.

Great post...missed maybe the most valid point. Efficient offense leads to less fast break opportunities for the other team. After you score a basket you get a couple of extra seconds to get back into your defensive sets while the other team takes the ball out. Efficient offense means less easy baskets for the opposition. The best defense is a good offense. Additionally, good offense puts pressure on the other team to score and keep up. Pressure leads to mistakes and missed shots.

My thought is you don't understand the situation with Joe. We can not just trade Joe Johnson. We have to find a team through Joe's agent and the team that Joe wants to sign with in the end and try to work out a sign and trade. Joe is free to sign with whom he wishes and we can not trade him. But we can sign and trade if it is advantageous to the team Joe chooses. That team will not be New Orleans. There are only a couple of teams Joe is legitimately looking at and those will be teams with a shot to win it all. Joe has no interest in rebuilding. He wants one big contract but he wants to play for a winner as the second option. In order to clear up enough room to sign Carmelo, you would need to drop Joe Johnson and then lose about 17 million more in salary but still maintain the 12 man roster minimum. That would for all intensive purposes mean Josh Smith being traded away for nothing, Al Horford signing for the same he makes now (LOL ...sorry...had to laugh at myself there) and dropping bibby and or most of Marvin. Now you tell me how we entice Carmelo to come here without a legit center and by selling or dropping 3 of our current 5 starters for expiring contracts to get him.

Resigning Joe is a non starter. If you resign Joe he gets the right of first refusal in future trades. You can't just ship him to Golden State. He can veto any trade if we resign him. Miami for draft picks is out of the question. We wouldn't have room to sign the picks without a roster bump. Unfortunately, he wouldn't want to go to New Orleans....JJ for CP3 is the best option you listed. The problem with this is we can't send him somewhere. He has to choose to go somewhere and they have to want him. That makes the list of suitors very small. It requires a team that doesn't need an inside presence. A team that is set at the PF/C position. New Jersey would be a great fit for Joe, but word is that LeBron is going there.