thecampster

Audible sigh. That's it...just an audible sigh. this year with Josh on the court (2245 minutes), we've outscored our opponents by 406 points. this year with Josh off the court (850 minutes), we've been outscored by our opponents by 115 points. So the math...per game this season, we are +6.55 points with Josh on the floor (in 36 minutes), -1.85 without him on the floor (13,7 minutes). The math is clear, you are a better team with Josh Smith on the floor. Every minute he is on the floor you are .18 points better than your opponent. On the bench, you are .135 points per minute worse. Any you want to trade him over shooting 37% on jumpers. He's taking 5 jumpers per game. Shooting 37%. That's 3.7 points per game. If he shot 50% on jumpers that would be 5 points per game. Are you really wanting to trade someone that makes you that much better over 1.3 points on jumpers a game.

JJ was 13 of 25....52% is hardly punking. He missed 12 shots...it is what it is. I like that he shot 52% but that's no excuse to take 32% of the team's shots. We had 78 shots in the game....25 by JJ, 16 by Crawford. Horford was 5 for 5 and had 12 boards....Horf was not the issue. 41 out of 78 shots going to 2 players is. That's 53% of your offensive opportunities in 2 people's hands. No one else had at least 10 attempts. Marvin Williams was on fire the previous night and only got 2 shot attempts in 30 minutes. JJ can not try to win games by himself. It kills us when he does.

I have a different take on this. It's not so much about who we face but about who we have face Orlando/Cleveland that have the best shot of knocking them off or extending them to 7 games.

I disagree and the situation is the same. Once JJ is signed, any of the 3 times discussed would not have the room to sign Lebron. It is the same thing you are just seeing it through your "I wanna be right" filter.

Dude, didn't you and I just argue this in another thread and you took the opposing argument?

Who's team is "doin work" in the brackets. They are the leader in the clubhouse after day one.

For starters....I would then be bringing back Chillz and my team would look like this Crawford/Bibby or Teague Chillz/Mo Evans/Mario Deng/Marvin Smooth/Deng/Marvin Horford/Pachulia With draft picks and MLE plus any other bench we retain. I Personally think that team wrecks most teams most nights. Deng is much better than this year shows. That is a much improved rebounding team and much improved defensive team bringing back Childress. That team also shares the ball.

I was calling JJ the 700 laptop the knicks or bulls were trying to acquire and the lesser piece is what we take back (instead of getting something for nothing. Shows you fundamentally didn't understand this in the first place. I'm talking about how the buyer will build his team and we'll salvage something out of the deal.

And there you go.

Using a similar analogy to yours. I want to but a new $700 laptop. I own a 3 year old laptop. I sell the old one on Craiglist for $200. Someone will get use out of it and it's better than the no laptop they had and they don't have to save up a full $700. I then go buy the $700 laptop but have $200 left over. That's the benefit.

I never said they owe us anything. I said it could be beneficial. JJ is going to sign with the highest / longest contract bidder. Once the Hawks come to grips with this, they will see what they can benefit. Here is how the first part of the Hawks logic works. The Hawks can sign JJ without penalty because he is theirs but can not sign someone else. If JJ is going to bolt, they are going to lose him for nothing because they can't resign someone else to take his place. However, they could trade JJ for another player or 2 and that player becomes theres and the JJ no penalty rule applies. The new team if they gave JJ a 17 million dollar contract would take a 17 million dollar hit against their cap. So the Hawks instead do a sign and trade for JJ where they take back 10 million dollars in salary the other team doesn't need (say they have 3 points and only need 2 and want to develop the new guy). We take that point and that means the new team is only using 7 million of their cap money on JJ and they now have 10 million they wouldn't have had to buy a new agent. In short, I'm not confused. Lastly, JJ plays along at the behest of his new team for one important reason. He wants the best players on the floor on his new team. This is how that gets done. Would JJ not want New York to sign both him and Bosh if it was possible with a little wiggling? I think he would.

Of course there was the Denver Nuggets getting creative to sign Juwan Howard October 3, 2008 Signed forward Juwan Howard. September 30, 2008 Signed guards Mateen Cleaves, William "Smush" Parker and forwards Nick Fazekas, James Mays and Ruben Patterson . August 23, 2008 Signed guard J.R. Smith to a multi-year contract. July 31, 2008 Signed guard-forward Dahntay Jones. July 28, 2008 Acquired forward Renaldo Balkman from the New York Knicks for guard Taurean Green, forward Bobby Jones and a 2010 second round draft pick. July 24, 2008 Signed forward Chris Anderson. June 27, 2008 Acquired the draft rights to guard Sonny Weems from the Chicago Bulls. Or Last years knicks deal September 25, 2009 Re-signed F David Lee and G Nate Robinson. September 24, 2009 Re-signed F David Lee to a one-year contract. September 17, 2009 Signed G Sun Yue. July 12, 2009 Signed forward Jordan Hill. July 10, 2009 Signed guard Toney Douglas. June 26, 2009 Acquired center Darko Milicic from the Memphis for guard/forward Quentin Richardson and cash considerations. or the knicks of 07 October 10, 2007 Signed guard Allan Houston. October 2, 2007 Signed forward Demetris Nichols and guards Jared Jordan, Walker Russell Jr. and Roderick Wilmont; waived guard Dan Dickau. October 1, 2007 Acquired the rights to guard Jared Jordan from the Los Angeles Clippers for cash. July 28, 2007 Signed forward Wilson Chandler. June 29, 2007 Acquired forward Zach Randolph and guards Dan Dickau and Freddy Jones from the Portland Trail Blazers for guard Steve Francis and center Channing Frye; acquired the rights to forward Demetris Nichols from Portland for a 2008 second-round pick. All deals designed to free up cash to sign another player. All of which had players complicit. The confusion here is that he is a free agent and a big time free agent that is most likely going to a big market in a bad economy. Mark my words....it will be sign and trade central in the NBA this summer.

How about I site the easy one. August 20, 2005 Acquired guard Joe Johnson from the Phoenix Suns for guard-forward Boris Diaw and two conditional first-round picks. August 12, 2005 Signed center Zaza Pachulia, who had been with the Milwaukee Bucks. August 4, 2005 Signed center Zaza Pachulia, who is with the Milwaukee Bucks, to an offer sheet. 2 signings....one a sign and trade that allowed Phoenix the chance to get back something in return. Oh how we Hawks fans forget.

It's only done every freaking year there is a good free agent class. If a team believes that multiple free agents coming out are better than what they currently have they'll sign and trade for one, sign the other. happens every year. We are the best candidate since we are at the cap without JJ.

As an example of what could be done. Washington is a player in the free agent market and needs to be rid of the gilbert Arenas fiasco. They could offer JJ the max and trade us Al thornton and Arenas for JJ in a sign and trade to even the salaries. That fixes the point guard issue. Then you can off Chillz to come back and drop Jason Collins (thornton takes his spot) and boom you have your team. Arenas/Teague/Bibby Chillz/Crawford/Mo Evans Marvin/Thornton Josh/Joe Smith Horford/Pachulia/Morris Draft a big in training and there you go. No missing JJ.

What people fail to realize in the JJ leaving talk is he isn't just going to walk in free agency. It is far better for a team that is under the cap to do a sign and trade to acquire a player than to just acquire the player. If Chicago, New York or any other possible destination for JJ wants to do their best in the off season it is in their best interest to tender JJ a contract and then work out a sign and trade with the Hawks. This gives the Hawks players in return without penalizing us (we can take back JJ's salary in players but not in signing FA's). This in turn allows the team that wants to sign JJ to still have that available cap money to go after another free agent (see how the celtics were built a few years ago). We will not be losing JJ for nothing. It is in Johnson's best interest to allow this as it means better players at his coming destination. Johnson is leaving..get used to that. But we will get something in return, do not worry about that. So what you now need to ask yourself is what do teams like Chicago, New York and the other FA players have that we would like to take back but they don't need. Remember that the deal doesn't have to only be JJ. Bibby, Marvin or other players could leave to even out the deal. Roll that around in your noodles a while.

K, I'm in. and you know I'm in trouble because I only have 3 10's, 2 11's and 1 12 getting through in the first round. You know I'm wrong there.

I just pulled the 5 most obvious examples

What if number one. Hawks at Lakers Nov. 1st. Hawks won 43 minutes of this game. A 5 minute mental lapse in the 3rd quarter cost them this game. What if number two. Knicks @ Hawks Dec 4th. Josh Smith ejected in the 2nd quarter changing the whole makeup of the game and handing the knicks a 7 point win. What if number three. Hawks at Cleveland Dec 30. Hawks absolutely screwed by the non reset of the shot clock and it costs them the game. NBA in the bag for Lebron. What if number four. Hawks at Golden State Feb 21. A bogus technical foul call on Jamal Crawford with seconds left in the game flips the game to the warriors. What if number five. Dallas at Hawks Feb 26. Jason Kidd makes contact with Mike Woodson as he jumps into the coaches box. Replay clearly shows Woodson's feet make it to the coaching box as the contact is initiated. Kidd should have been ruled out of bounds. An argument can be made that Atlanta could have or should have won each of these 5 games. 4 were screw jobs by the officials and 1 was just terrible coaching by Woodson letting LA score 17 points in 3 minutes without a time out. If these games go the way they are supposed to, the Hawks record would currently be 47-18, and in second place. The Cavaliers would be 51-16 only 3 games ahead with 2 head to head matchups left and we'd have something very interesting to talk about.

Which is the exact reason a point that can penetrate and dish is exactly what we need.

It's a matter of perspective. We are watching the game on tv. Seeing all 5 people moving on the floor at once. I can almost guarantee you he's watching the game with blinders. He's watching to see if we switch instead of seeing if the individual player needed to switch in the first place. He's looking at people, situations and not the whole floor. When we watch on tv, our perspective is much different. We can see how all 5 players are interacting, affecting each other. Woody is also seeing the floor through the eyes of his practice sessions. He works on something in practice and he's looking to see if it's implemented properly in the game. We aren't distracted by that and instead we are just looking at basketball. When seen through the filter of just plain basketball, it's easy to see the absolute havoc Teague causes at both ends of the floor. Even if he isn't performing as a spot up shooter, his other talents bring much more to the table. So consider this post my own personal letter to Woodson. When Teague is in the game on the offensive end, the defense collapses to the paint. They fear this kid driving the lane. The defense works much harder and runs out their legs trying to get back as Teague pushes the ball up the floor. The big men play with their hands up as they know the kid is taking it to the lane and they know a pass or short rebound opportunity is only seconds away. When Teague is in the game on defense, opposing points do not drive. They move left to right to run him into a screen as he stays in front of his man. Opposing points rush to their spots and drives because they know he has recovery speed and this creates block and steal opportunities for the bigs. When Mario is in the game, his man can not leave him to double...Mario only needs a step to get to the rim. he is not a polished offensive threat but he is a high flyer and requires a body. On defense, he opens up rebound opportunities because he requires a big to step out and set the screen. These things are invaluable toward controlling the tempo of a game Mr. Woodson. Stop watching tape or the game through the practice filter and start watching it through the basketball filter.

I am getting so SICK of the unfounded Joe love on this board. The Hawks have played 61 ball games this year. Joe Johnson has shot under 40% 16 times. That means he's a failure for his team 26.2 % of the time. An MVP isn't an absolute failure 26% of the time. Joe is a better than average volume scorer who holds the ball way too much and plays an extraordinary amount of minutes.

Look at the remaining dates on Boston's schedule. Charlotte Milwaukee Cleveland Dallas Utah Denver San Antonio Oklahoma City Cleveland Toronto Milwaukee Chicago Milwaukee 13 of their remaining 25 games are against teams currently in the playoffs... 5 more are against teams that could sneak in. 18 of their last 25 are against teams that at this point have something to play for. Cleveland has 12. The Hawks have 11 remaining but their list is not as ominous. Orlando only has 9. Seems Boston played the lighter schedule thus far. Seems like we're pretty much a lock for that 3 seed (all things being equal).

19.8 ppg 12.4 rpg 6.2 apg 2.0 spg 1.6 bpg Out freaking standing. Just for kicks....last 10 games 19.3 ppg 10.4 rpg 5.6 apg 2.5 spg 1.4 bpg Them's crazy stats right there. What's our record look like in the last 10 without him?

JJ was 10-26....He took 13 more shots than Josh to score 2 more points. Before he hit those 3 in a row, JJ was 7 of 23....he's part of the reason the Bucks were close in the first place. Please remember he missed the last shot in the 4th that should have won the game. Before those 3 makes in a row, he was shooting 30.4% from the floor. Just give credit where it's due. 22 points, 15 boards, 6 assists from your Power Forward. Your Center scored 17/10 while holding bogut to 14/9. JJ's 3 iso, score at all costs shots in OT should never have happened. your 3 main guards were 15 of 48 from the field for 42 points. People shooting a combined 31.25% from the field should not be taking 53.3% of your shots. The rest of the team was 24 of 42. That's who you should be thanking.