thecampster

That at 7 and 16, the hawks are only 3.5 games out of the playoffs. The east just sucks this year. It sucks bad.

I can't believe I'm gonna say this out loud.

Get off Hotlanta's back!!!!!!!!!

Personally, I don't share all his opinions on the Hawks but for Pete's sake, take a look and see where he's coming from and not the method he's using.

Stephan Jackson was a bench player for the Spurs, we're giving him 13 shots a game. That's 3 more a game than the spurs gave him as a #1 option off the bench where he should get more looks than as 4th option on offense as a starter.

Dion Glover who by the way is the one guy on this team I think is giving it his all, all season (even Reef was loafing the first 5 games). Was available for 1-3 million a season to the right bidder all summer. No one bought. We're allowing him 13.3 shots a game. Now although he is shooting a lower percentage than Jackson there is a reason. He's getting to the line 2.2 times more than Jackson a game meaning he's getting fouled and missing the shot at least once more a game than Jackson and by driving the ball to the hoop he's at least making the defense move. Jackson is a stagnant shooter on offense and poorer handler of the ball. Proof is the shorter Glover averages to date show that in 2.5 less minutes a game, Dion gets 1 more rebound and gives up .7 less turnovers per game.

Add these 2 players up. In about 33 minutes of the game, they shoot 26.4 times, grab 9.2 boards, give 5.1 assists and turn it over 4.7 times. So these two players who were bench players last year and that no one wanted over the summer get 45.5 quality touches in 33 minutes.

Hotlanta's argument is that we are under talented. We have 2 players no one wanted getting a quality touch (shot, board, assist, turnover) once every 40 seconds for 33 minutes of a 48 minute game.

This is why we are under talented. JT might be a good point guard on a team with better players in the starting lineup, but facts is facts. Reef is the only Nba starter of the group for JT to look to offensively. 2 others are marginal starters on any playoff team, but not both on a playoff team, Ratliff is small and defensive minded so by default JT has to be the second option.

Second unit. 2 rookies, one with no USA college experience so he doesn't know the players he's playing with or against. 1 pure non scoring point guard, one second year marginal point guard, 2 gimps (crawford, henderson), a cast off from New York (Nailon), a cast off from Philly with a pin in his foot(though Nazr is arguably the best of the group).

So when Hotlanta is "griping" about the talent level and to get off Stotts' back about coaching I have to agree with him.

In my humble opinion, JT's head is up his keester about what his job is supposed to be right now. He should stop shooting in practice and make running the half court offense his number one goal. He should as a second goal start practicing penetrating and hitting a cutter and make the other players, Jackson and Ratliff specifically get involved in being the cutters.

Jackson needs to go back to hustling for loose balls and mixing it up inside and outside 15 feet instead of hanging out looking for a pass and jacking it up.

Reef needs to start demanding the ball and start dishing out punishment to anyone hacking him. If he continues to get hacked, then he needs to start being a man and call for the ball on the next possession and step on the guys chest on the way to the basket.

Ratliff needs to quit whining about tic tac fouls and put some other teams on his can so the refs will have a real foul to blow about. You play a tic tac style and they'll whistle you for tic tac fouls. You play like a beast and they'll only whistle the contact that draws blood. Ask John Salley.

Glover. He needs to keep putting forth the effort and start passing after driving to force Ratliff to be a force on offense and to make the other teams shotblockers respect those other players.

and Alan Henderson needs to take some freaking Midol and get his pansy [censored] back on the floor. I grew up in Indiana and recently just moved back and our whole freaking state is ashamed to say we put out such a wuss.

How long before his trade restriction after signing the new deal.

The phrase is clock cleaned. Wouldn't mention it but it's the second time you've said it tonight.

Terry stat line through 3. 2 points, 1 assist, 1 rebound, 4 turnovers in 14 minutes.

Yeah it's not his fault.

Besides, I ain't like it when you tauk bowt my lerning dissabilite

Hold the phone guys. Chris Crawford is in the game. The great white hope. Giving short fat white guys like me everywhere hope of playing in the NBA one day.

37-13 after 1 quarter. That's freaking embarassing. And after a 2 day rest against a team that got beat in a barn burner the night before and should be tired. Just out hustled and out manned.

Kemp and Roberts are the 2 names I've mentioned in the past, they are the names just brought up earlier in this thread and they're the same names I'm mentioning now.

Either can give us what ekenzie was giving us and more.

When I mentioned Kemp before the season started everyone was screaming, no....we need guards, more guards and There's no way he'll sign for the vet minimum. Well, he hasn't been signed by anyone, and we get our collective rears kicked on the boards every night. Beat like a drum inside.

Wake up people, your starting PG and SG are averaging over 10 rebounds a game. 10 boards from the guards. Is it because they're really tall, hardly...it's because our big guys are way undersized and need the help and it's killing the fast break.

Trade Ratliff and Henderson to Portland for Rasheed and Sign Stanley Roberts to play center...Then line up JT, Glover, Wallace, SAR and Roberts. Backup with JV, Jackson, Diaw, Nailon, Nazr.

Another guard (no harm meant to Parker) is not what we need.

Which is why Diesel I said we don't trade Reef. Reef is producing for his money. Henderson, Ratliff, Dickau are not but packaging Henderson with Ratliff makes them a tradable commodity to someone with 1 bad attitude with an expiring contract...sheed. If he doesn't resign, so what. The cap is free 1 year early.

Packaging Dickau with Nazr and a protected pick makes him tradable. That's 3 bad contracts gone if we do it right and 1 in return expires in a year and we get bigger by adding Brown and Haywood. Do you honestly think neither team would consider either trade?

Trading SAR gets you no where the return of what he's giving you. You won't get high picks and you won't get back a scoring big man of which these are our 2 needs.

We have over 17.7 million a season locked up in Alan Henderson and Theo Ratliff. That's too much for a center averaging 7 points and a perennial injury fiend.

SAR is not the problem, JT is not the problem. I've been saying all along, Bad salaries for small big men is.

Here's my solution. We must move either and or Ratliff and Henderson. Utah comes to mind as a player that needs a center and or more salary. And or find a team that needs good citizens and wants to move distraction citizens. Portland (Rasheed), Chicago, (Rose/Marshall), Washington (Brown) come to mind.

I would move Theo and Henderson (when healthy) to Portland for Rasheed Wallace. Before you say they won't do it, remember what a pain Sheed has been for them and the emergence of Randolph. Doing this means no more double/triples for SAR.

Atlanta trades: C Theo Ratliff (7.5 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 1.1 apg in 31.4 minutes)

C Alan Henderson (7.5 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 1.1 apg in 31.4 minutes)

Atlanta receives: SF Rasheed Wallace (18.6 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 3.2 apg in 40.3 minutes)

Change in team outlook: +11.1 ppg, +0.3 rpg, and +2.1 apg.

Portland trades: SF Rasheed Wallace (18.6 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 3.2 apg in 40.3 minutes)

Portland receives: C Theo Ratliff (7.5 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 1.1 apg in 11 games)

C Alan Henderson (7.5 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 1.1 apg in 11 games)

Change in team outlook: -11.1 ppg, -0.3 rpg, and -2.1 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Atlanta and Portland being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Atlanta and Portland had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Then send Nazr Mohammed and Dan Dickau and a conditional 1st to Washington for Kwame Brown and Brendan Haywood.

Atlanta trades: PG Dan Dickau (0.0 ppg, 0.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 2.5 minutes)

C Nazr Mohammed (6.0 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 0.5 apg in 18.0 minutes)

Atlanta receives: C Brendan Haywood (3.0 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 0.1 apg in 13.7 minutes)

PF Kwame Brown (6.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.7 apg in 27.5 minutes)

Change in team outlook: +3.7 ppg, +5.5 rpg, and +0.3 apg.

Washington trades: C Brendan Haywood (3.0 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 0.1 apg in 13.7 minutes)

PF Kwame Brown (6.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.7 apg in 27.5 minutes)

Washington receives: PG Dan Dickau (0.0 ppg, 0.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 2 games)

C Nazr Mohammed (6.0 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 0.5 apg in 11 games)

Change in team outlook: -3.7 ppg, -5.5 rpg, and -0.3 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Atlanta and Washington being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Atlanta and Washington had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Change in Team

Starters

JT

Dion

SAR

Rasheed

Brown

Second unit

JV

SJax

Diaw

Nailon

Haywood

Hansen, Crawford on the bench. Brandon, Ekezie on IR.

Yes, I believe both deals are probably and that both groups are better offensive and defensive units. Now do we have the nads to do it? That's the question.

Does this sound like any campster we know stating in the post season that we didn't need another swing guard but instead needed a bigger player...hmmm

Stanley Roberts, Alvin Jones are still out there.....We could still use SJax off the bench and move SARdown to the 3, Theo to the 4 and Start Roberts at the 5. Or Let Jones play backup 4/5 and Let Nazr start at center, theo 4/ Sar 3

If not, teams like memphis and lakers with big men are gonna kill us.

This is a question I've been asking since DeMarr was not resigned. Now I feel i can articulate it better.

Jackson is averaging 16.3 points, 4.3 rebounds, 2.9 assists in 38.6 minutes a game. Also, 1.6 steals, only .1 blocks and a whopping 3.0 turnovers a game (that's .7 more than the supposedly bad handled Dion and with .1 less assists, and 1 less board than Dion)

That said, would a healthy DeMarr at 1 mil a year been a better investment. Would/could demarr be more efficient and a better defender...at least a better care taker of the ball?

What we need is an all around player here. Somewhat of a star, get it done guy. Not a superstar but let's see, someone who could get 15 points and say 6 boards and 3.5 assists per game from the shooting guard spot...oh wait, we have one.

here's the stat line for Dion in the first 4 games.

15 points, 6 boards, 3.5 assists, 1.3 steals, .3 blocks, 2.5 fouls and 3 turnovers. Shooting percentage is down (34.3 %) but that is due in large part to him takeing 15 3's already and only making 4 and to him going to the basket too much (since Terry and Jackson aren't penetrating. One many of his misses on offense he's going to the freethrow line instead.

Dion is not and will not ever be a problem. Last year he got 25 minutes a game. These averages are in line with what he did last year per MINUTE. The only difference is his shooting percentages are down..those will improve, it always equals out. If his percentages improve to last year's numbers, and he keeps getting 35-39 minutes a game he'll actually go up by 3 or 4 points a game.

19,6,3.5 from a shooting guard is bench reserve all star numbers guys.

Now the best thing about last night's game is this. Terry saw that he doesn't have to be mini Jordan for this team to win. And let's face it, that's how he plays. He tries to be the 6 foot incarnation of Vince Carter. His handles, his skills, his intensity are all good, but his self image is all wrong. Instead of trying to be Vince or Micheal or His own image of JT, Jason should look to another great of MJ's generation and emulate him. Isiah Thomas.

In Isiah's career averages you see alot of JT.

19.2 points, 3.6 reb 1.9 steals, .25 blocks, .759 FT %, .452 FG %, 9.3 assists.

Terry last year.

17.2 points, 3.4 reb, 1.56 steals, .17 blks, .835 FG%. .430 FG%, 7.4 assists.

What's the difference, virtually nothing. Both are 6'1", 180 exactly. (though terry's bio says 6'2"). Rebounds and steals are virtually identical and Terry's boards, blocks and steals were up this year and his scoring is up to 22.7...what's the difference. Assists. so far this year his assists are down to 6.3 a game.

And I'll tell you why...his eyes. Watch film of Isiah and you'll see his eyes go up and scan the floor, even when pressured before he hit's the half court line. He's looking at the other 9 people on the floor and looking at everyone else's lanes to the basket. Terry picks up his eye's (especially under pressure) just after the half court line and his first glance is always the front of the rim (ala Michael and Vince)...

Jason is far too good a talent to let go, but perhaps last nights game will help him see who he should want to be like. Not Mike, but Isiah. Thomas has a gift wrapped invite to the hall of fame and it was for looking at offensive players far inferior to himself on the court. John Salley and Bill Lambeer.

If Jason will pick up his eyes a little, Vaughn can hopefully come off the bench where he belongs and hopefully last nights game showed JT that.

If we are learning anything from this game it's this. We don't have a center. We have a pretty decent power forward in..............Theo, and no center.

Chandler grabbed 9, count em, 9 offensive rebounds. That's offensive alright. I'm stepping up and saying it now. Freaking sign Stanley Roberts now.

Sign Roberts, Move Theo to PF and Reef to SF. Let Jackson and Nazr be the 6th and 7th men.

That was freaking embarassing. 22 boards, 9 offensive.

and then the wheels come off. 15 turnovers thru 3 .vs only 5 for the hornets.

Today, the Toronto Raptors released "Stanley Roberts". Roberts never joined the team for camp, but instead stayed in Florida for private workouts.

The team didn't have room for him but kept him the whole time trying to figure something out.

Here is another 7 footer (290 lbs). I just have to wonder if the Hawks will wise up and dump a player on a needy team to make room for a big body. What would it hurt at this point to make a 2 for 1 trade (creative way to move Crawford and a player for someone else's extra back up trouble point guard (cough stouda..cough mire..cough) and sign Roberts as the backup Center for size.

Atlanta trades: PF Alan Henderson (4.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 18.2 minutes)

PF Chris Crawford (4.8 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.2 apg in 7.6 minutes)

Atlanta receives: PG Damon Stoudamire (6.9 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 3.5 apg in 22.3 minutes)

Change in team outlook: -2.7 ppg, -3.6 rpg, and +2.8 apg.

Portland trades: PG Damon Stoudamire (6.9 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 3.5 apg in 22.3 minutes)

Portland receives: PF Alan Henderson (4.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 82 games)

PF Chris Crawford (4.8 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.2 apg in 5 games)

Change in team outlook: +2.7 ppg, +3.6 rpg, and -2.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Atlanta and Portland being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Atlanta and Portland had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Terry, Glover, Jackson, SAR, Ratliff

Stoudamire, Diaw, Nailon, Nazr, Roberts

JV, Hansen, DD (IL)

Exactly. Size is everything (as shown by ekenzie). The east is small and I think bringing in a 7 footer to play backup Center is just what we need.

And we "NEED" to pick him up. Collier has been in no win situations since entering the league but let's take a look at the player.

He's 7'0" 260 lbs which is bigger than anyone on our current roster. His best game last year was a 20 minute performance at Cleveland where he went for 11 points and 8 rebounds. He appeared in only 13 games seeing a total of 104 minutes. Why, Yao and other more seasoned in front of him.

At Georgia Tech, he average 17 points and 8 rebounds his last 2 seasons. He's only 26.

We need a big body. Although never asked to shoot outside, shot 37% from the college 3 point line.

I'm not saying make him the center of the future, but he'll sign for the minimum (especially to come back to the ATL) and is a better use of money than a number of players fighting for spots right now.

According to realgm, the players under guaranteed contract are:

SAR, Ratliff, Henderson, Nazr, Crawford

Terry, Jackson, Diaw, Glover, Dickau, Vaughn, Nailon, Hansen

That's 13 but I'm not sure if Nailon or Hansen's contracts are guaranteed. Cut 1 player, stash one on the IR (probably henderson with his bad back) and you can sign Collier.

I hate how we're going into the season so small. If either Theo or Nazr the steel foot go down for any time, we're stuck with Henderson at center again.

Before the draft I was screaming for the Hawks to move up and get Hayes. It would've taken this year's and (a protected) future 1st, but wouldn't Jarvis' 20 points, better defense and better ball handling (than Robinson) look real good right now.

I'm not afraid, Robinson was a problem. Maybe not "the problem" but a problem. And I like the guy. He's a great fit in Philly and I for one was trumpeting his coming here but he just didn't fit. Crowded lanes, leaving the backdoor vulnerable, bad handles in the open court, one too few passes in the half court. He'll be great for philly, just not us.

The Bulls. Anyone who doesn't see the Bulls making giant strides this year is crazy....some stats.

Tyson Chandler - Feb 12th - Mar 29 th inserted as starter and averaged. 13 pts, 10.5 rebounds, 2 blocks.

Ed Curry - last 20 games made starter, averaged 19.45 pts, 7 rebounds, 1 block.

Jamal Crawford - starter last 22 games. averaged 18.5 points, 3.36 boards, 6.63 assists.

Jalen Rose - started every game, averaged 22 points, 4 board, 5 assists.

That's 4 starters averaging 73 points, 25 rebounds, over 14 assists and 4 blocks a game (to end the year) and they just added Scottie Pippen to that Mix. If healthy, they may win 50 games...remember you heard it here first. They are all a year older, bigger, stronger and tired of losing. This team was good the last 20 last year and will be better. I think they could get the 4th seed. I'm not making this up...4th seed.

I think Boston performed addition by subtraction. Not because Walker was a bad guy...not hardly. Just too much of the same. They got a big body they desparately needed.

Ny won't be as bad as everyone thinks. Starting lineup before McDyess returns (I say around Jan 15th).

pg - Charlie Ward

SG - Allan Houston

SF - Keith Van Horn or Shandon Anderson

PF - Keith Van Horn or Kurt Thomas

C - Mutombo

Mutombo had 6 points, 7 boards and 3 blocks in 22 minutes the other night. He will start.

That ain't bad guys, but if and when McDyess comes back it's ward, houston, Van Horn, McDyess, Mutombo. That's a lot better and bigger than most teams in the east.

As for us, I'd like us a whole lot better with a healthy Crawford, Henderson and a Big banger...but that's just me.

No, another point guard isn't the problem.

If we learned anything about ourselves through O.E. it's that this team is starved for an inside presence.

If you give up an easy basket, then have to take the ball out, the other team has time to set up it's defense..ie..turnovers from the press.

But rebound the ball and create a physical presence inside and you instead create more fast break opportunities (easy baskets) and make for less traffic to dribble through and less time for the defense to set up.

There are still some quality "BODIES" out there. Kemp, Alvin Jones, Jason Collier when the T'wolves cut him and potentially Stanley Roberts (currently in Toronto but something could be worked there too!). There are more, no one great but many bruising rebounders just the same.

All I'm saying is it's hard to play point when you're always receiving the ball on the inbounds with 2 defenders in your jock up and down the floor.

This ought to tick someone or two off here but if it's a big bruising rebounding body we want, why not Alvin Jones.

Not a starter mind you, but one [censored] of a big body and shot blocker of the bench.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-s...p&type=lgns

saw you beat me to it.

Maybe now it means he can be resigned on the cheap, stuck on the IR till 100%

Deke will probably end up in NY or Bos.

Toronto is a player here too, all east teams.

All 3 have hinted they have a spot for him and he would want to play in Jersey's division now.

Utah has cap room.

Denver would welcome him back.

Back to Theo, this is why Robinson was so bad for this team. His lazy defense left an already taxed, undersized center to defend his man, occasionally to offer help weakside for Reef and to watch for Robinson's man coming free on the back door cut night after night. Newble chased down his man, when robinson wouldn't and it left Ratliff with one less direction to think about.

A bigger SF (Height wise) would greatly help the squad or a true PF moving the big Shareef to SF would eliminate one of those 3 defensive zones for Ratliff...

ie. Kemp at PF, SAR at SF means the other teams power foward isn't a concern when we're on defense. Also, the other teams small forward (cept for KG) can't post Reef meaning Reef can play up on him away from the basket forcing them drive.

Just my philosophy.

I just think we're relying alot this year for Nazr's foot, Crawford's knee and Hendu's body to play big minutes for us again at the 4 and 5.

Before last Week, Stanley Roberts was. Sean Kemp (and [censored] anyone that doesn't think he moves mountains underneath) is, Deke now is (though clumsy offensively for sure and not my first choice.).

Lorenzen Wright is for the right trade....Sabonis if you could talk him out of retirement. But there are a couple.

Personally, I wish we would've grabbed Stanley Roberts before Toronto did. But this team has some moveable talent.

Diesel be darned, it does look like a trade is the best way to make our size mismatch go away and Theo is the best tradable commodity to make that Happen.