thecampster

If you guys still frequent the board, we need you to visit the Yahoo "Hawksquawk Fantasy Football League". We need you to play your roster or let us know you plan not to play...also, Dickau's Dominator's needs to change his settings to let the commish edit his team if he isn't going to play

Guys, we're gonna try to run this for a couple of days till these two show up...Please don't rain on anyone who bumps this back to the top....We need these guys to show up. Their lack of presence is hurting the league...

hatldude....if you're not excited about having Reef than go be a grizz fan....really...it's getting annoying.

First of all, thanks to the 10 total Hawksquawkers that met the challenge of doing this fairly. It's the hardest thing as fans to do. To do something fairly without knowing why when you're favorite team, or in this case usually "teams" are involved.

Alright. there are 15 teams in the Eastern conference. That's 14 teams at 5 positions for the Hawks to match up against.

The Hawksquawkers see this matchup as:

48-17-5. You guys believe we win 48 out of 70 matchups...are equal in 5 and lose 17. You believe our bench wins 10 and loses 4 matchups. You don't believe in our coach who I said wins 1 matchup and no one else saw one he won.

overall we're 57-34-7 out of 98. If these numbers played directly into wins over an 82 game season and we split the ties 50-50 that's 51-31 or good enough for the central division lead (by one game) and the 2nd seed in the playoffs.

We rated our players against the league as such.

JT - 3rd best PG overall

DJ - tied for 11th best SG overall

GR - tied for 2nd best SF overall

SAR - 1st overall (hereby ending the "best power forward in the east arguement I hope).

Ratliff - 5th best center in the east.

Bench - 5th best.

Coach - tied for 13th.

So as Hawks fans, we believe our only weakness is our coach and the youth/play of our shooting guard.

So based on these posts and stats, I'd say we have the 2nd best chance to win the East.

If anyone has any desire to finish this by comparing the West I'll do so too. Just post your impression of that west coast team. Utah and Portland have been done.

the results.

Washington - unfortunately this is one of my lesser knowledge teams but I'll give it a shot. I'm using a couple of games in April and a little knowledge here to explain.

Whitney vs. JT. JT adv hawks

Alexander vs. Johnson. even Defensively plays him to a standstill.

Hamilton vs. Gdawg. Gdawg adv. Hawks

Laettner .vs SAR. SAR adv Hawks

White .VS Ratliff. Ratliff adv Hawks

Bench Lue, Simmons, Thomas, Haywood, Brown, Jordan, Nesby. Any bench with Jordan on it is a win...adv Wizards.

Coach - Collins .vs Lon.....though I hate Doug, he gets the edge till Lonnie proves himself.

4-2-1

Hawks .vs Cleveland

Wagner/Bimbo .vs JT. adv JT

Davis .vs Demarr. even, Davis isn't better.

Miles .vs Gdawg. adv GROB...The kid is good but only developing still.

Hill .vs SAR. adv SAR.

Ilgauskas .vs Ratliff. Given both will miss 75 games due to hang nails and water in the ear it's Mihm .vs Mohammed...we still win. adv hawks.

Bench - slight adv hawks. The cavs starting five sucks but at least they don't get worse in the next five and they can shoot. Full of workmen like Murray, Boozer, Person and such.

Coach - Lucas .vs Kruger....Holy Crept, Lon wins one....Lucas has never been a consistent winner anywhere...only a couple of good but not great seasons in college and he doesn't get anything out of the little talent he has.

6-0-1

shortly to follow the totals and what it all means.

3 more guys...Detroit, Cleveland, Washington. I'll do the last of the group when done.

Almost there guys.....Let's get the last 5 done...if you've done one and you're familiar with one of the last 5 go ahead and do one more.....I'm spreading it out to avoid individual bias...I'm doing something with this I swear.

Still need from the East

Indiana, Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland

Washington.

From the west we have the Jazz and Blazers, but I wanna wait before doing the west.

I'm gonna do something with this, I swear.

Still need from the East

Indiana, Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland, Toronto

Boston, New Jersey, New York, Orlando, Philadelphia and Washington.

If you wanna do the west o.k. but do an east too so we can compare the results in conference.

We all agree it's the dead season. So for all of us this constant trade JT, Screw DD, let's ride Ira's jock talk is redundant.

So here's my challenge. Let's logically and without bias compare the Hawks individually to each team in the league. Each squawker take a team you're rather familiar with and break them down against our Hawks. I grew up in Chi-town so I'll take the bulls (plus it's easy to homer there). In your subsequent messages, just list the team in the subject and try to follow my format.

PG - Williams .vs Terry ADV Terry. Williams is raw and developing. Still has something to prove in the NBA. Minor advantage Terry.

SG - Rose .vs Johson or Glover. ADV Rose. Johnson is probably my favorite player on the hawks, but I'm not blind.

SF - Eddie or Marshall .vs Glenn. ADV GRob. could be a different SF here instead of Eddie Robinson like Donyell but it doesn't matter. There's only 5 or 6 small forwards even in GDawg's League.

PF - Chandler .vs Sar. ADV SAR. One day, Chandler might be one of the best big men in the league...not this year.

C - Curry .vs Ratliff. ADV Hawks. Very similar production wise. Bigger upside and bigger body with Curry but Ratliff is a better defender now. Minor Advantage Hawks.

Bench - I'd typically list them, but Chicago's bench is suspect...ATL - DD, Glover, IRA/CC, Hendu and Nazr. No group coming from their bench matches that.

Coaching - I like Lon. He gets alot out of his players and isn't afraid to make a change. He's not intimidated by the high priced athelete, but I prefer Cartwright. He's been in the trenches as a warrior. Stars sells tickets, warriors win games. He's got a fantastic basketball mind.

I do like our assistants better.

Hawks win 5-2. Given this number, I say we have a 5 in 7 chance of beating them on any given night.

NOW, Who's next. What other team do you know and could compare the Hawks to?

You guys are killing me with the IRa talk. In 30 minutes a game, IRA gave up 8 points and 5 rebounds on an injury depleted team.

In only 18 minutes a game, Chris gave us 7.6 points and 3.6 rebounds. Chris Crawford dang near gave us more, playing SF in less 40% less time. He's a better passer and we're already set at the Shooting Guard.

We have DD, JT, Email, Dion and DJ to play the 1-2. We don't need another SG which is what IRA is. AS a small Forward, a healthy Crawford is a better defender...yes better and far superior offensive player. Chris can take it to the rack and shoot. Chris is not only the backup, but IF I told you we would get a 15 - 18 minutes backup this year who would give up 8 points and 4 boards at the small forward spot, most of you would be o.k. with that.

Secondly, Ira would not beat out Johnson or Glover for the 2. Glover is too strong and Johnson too tall. Both cause matchup problems for opposing shooting guards on the offensive end. Our whole goal as an offensive squad this year is to make defenses pick their poison. Double JT or GRob and leave a capable player in Johnson or Glover alone to cut to the basket. Double SAR and leave either GRob or Theo alone. Putting Ira on the floor on the offensive end stagnates our offense. Some on this board tried to blame the lower scoring in the second half on Terry...not true. Having Ira on the floor gave opposing defenses room to double and rotate.

Ira may be able to front 6-5 guards as well as anyone but his game is incomplete and his presence isn't needed....We need another big body to throw in for fouls and clog up the middle and that's it. We have 4 players on the roster right now who can play the 3. GRob, DJ, Dion, CC.

We have 2 glorified PF's playing the Center in Ratliff and Mohammed. A banger to take the steam out of the big boys in small spurts would be golden. That's Ewing, Christopherson...Hell Conkak would do...Just another big body off the bench for fouls....I'd take Bowdler back if he'd come...we don't have enough size on the roster to compete with the west but we have enough of everything else to win the east.

In a recent Shareef argument between Hotlanta and Diesel I sided heavily with Diesel...but here again I go confusing everyone. Hotlanta is dead on here and Diesel has issues.

O.k. the boy can pass but the NBA is about spacing. dribbling to a spot with space to create lanes to pass and drive. If there was ever a way to break down basketball, this is it. Penetrate, create space, shoot or pass. 5 Players doing it at once with the most important of the 5 being the point guard.

Pure Basketball at it's best is just that. 5 people creating a little space in the passing, driving lanes by moving their bodies and getting to a spot on the floor first. That's it.

Now how do you do this. Athleticism. Terry has it, Dickau doesn't. IF you could put Dickau's vision in Terry's body you'd be perfect. But to be an effective point guard in this league, you've got to be able to beat the opposing pg off the dribble. Dan can't or at least won't be able to for a while. There is a huge difference in the college game to the pros.

The PGs are all quick...super quick and bigger. They take away space and lot's of it. Ask Scoonie Penn who was the man off the dribble in College. He was considered an excellent college point guard. But once he got to the NBA he was too short and too slow after the first move to create real space...that's why he's played in Europe and not the states.

Dickau looked good in summer leagues, but in the milwaukee game, you may have noticed he couldn't shake the defensive minded backup point guard for Milwaukee. That will be the norm in the NBA. He isn't ready and won't be any time soon. He'll be a backup and a decent one at that...but never a real starter..Never.

JT on the other hand can beat most NBA points off the dribble. Improved court vision will come. His scoring will go down a little (to about 15 -17 a game) as he passes more but his assist will eventually push 9-11 a game. The real beneficiary of this...Demarr Johnson. The point always draws the 2 in Double teams leaving Johnson open..alot. He'll also create tons of backside cuts for Demarr.

You'll see SAR around 21-23 a game with Terry at the point. GRob at 19-20. Ratliff at 10-12 and Terry himself at 16 ish a game...but you'll see Demarr flourish at 12-14 a game and getting better as the season rolls on.

This team is designed for success as is.

I guess I was wrong when I told him in the football league my 14 year old wanted to beat him up for all the trouble he created in there. By the looks of him I think my 9 year old could take him.

I firmly agree. Hell if you want to get crazy and if he gets his weight under control lineup like this

JT

Dog

Reef

Kemp

Theo

Bring DD, DG, DJ, Alan, Nazr off the bench.

Try handling those 3 down low. That's a big freaking team and who'd handle Reef at the 3. Don't know if Glen Robinson could handle the 2 spot but it'd be fun finding out.

It gives you CC and Email as bench warmer towel boys. Most teams would take that.

Just ask Kemp to Rebound and put back.

But now that I said I agree let's remember the 2 big concerns...his weight and a past drug problem. If either got in the way it'd kill team chemistry.

coach in me. I don't see Demarr spotting up as much as you all see it and frankly, I see the offense differently than most. Demarr will be our combo player. Yes he'll spot up, but he'll be being fed by the backdoor screen alot. The mid lane cut and be expected to drive baseline and rotate the ball out.

DeMarr found the 3 so much from the wings last year because he was playing the SF. He was trying to draw the defending SF out of the play to free up the feed and drive lanes. GDawg now does this more effectively.

I see Theo posting weakside, SAR posting strong side (Right). I see JT bringing the ball up and veering to the right of the circle. I see Glen on the right in the corner. DJ is high left. In this set, the best 3 defenders on the other squad are all right side (Guarding SAR, GDawg and JT). Further more, the opposing center is leaning to offer help. JT drifts right with a slow pg dribble. He looks like he's going to take the other pg to the rack drawing in the "D". DJ cuts to the middle of the lane and receives the pass. Either DJ takes it to the hole or the opposing center comes front to challenge. DJ then drops the pass to Ratliff for the easy Lay.

This play works, because the player guarding DJ this year will be smaller...much smaller. It'll be the SG. The SF will have to guard Gdawg or he'll just shoot over every SG in the league. This gives DJ a tremendous size advantage should he post or cut.

In the above play, should the "D" read it properly, the SF would have cheated center. Dj would stop short catching the cut pass around the charity strip and kick to the corner to GDawg who can shoot the jumper or dump in the post to Shareef or rotate back to JT. There are 4 players on this squad who can get to the front of the rim on their own (all but Theo). Although DJ seemed clumsy at times doing so last year, he was also drawing the SF with the longer arms defensively and being asked to drive not cut.

This yields tons of freethrows a game and garbage baskets (extra shots per game).

So I see the breakdown as such.

Theo 12ppg, 5-10 FG, 2-3 FT. (10+2=12)

Sar 20ppg, 8-17 FG, 4-5 FT. (16+4=20)

GDawg 20ppg, 6-13 FG, 2-5 3pt, 2-3 FT. (12+6+2=20)

DJ 13ppg, 3-7 FG, 2-5 3pt, 1-2 FT. (6+6+1=13)

JT 17ppg, 4-10 FG, 2-6 3pt, 3-4FT. (8+6+3=17) - 8 apg.

Bench 23 ppg, 7-16 FG, 3-8 3pt (14+9=23).

This adds to 23+20+20+17+12+13 = 105ppg.

I think not only is this highly reasonable. But with Hendu, DD, Dion and Nazr as the bench players that's less than 6 points a piece for each. Highly unlikely. So although theses numbers may be a little off, they aren't by much. This year will be fun.

Uhm no, they're real rough. Sound fake at times...I was just commenting on Milwaukee commiting a cardinal sin. Never trade within your division...especially if the player your dealing makes your opponent stronger. Just plain dumb. But hey, our gain.

If any of this is misstyped, please forgive me but I can't stop laughing after reading that set of posts. I wonder if Milwaukee realizes they not only traded away the 17th best scorer in the league (based on last year's stats) but traded him to a division rival.

Bob Rathman:

Terry drives left, quick dish to Sar out to DJ rotated back to the corner for a three....oh my goodness 34 for GRob. Stinger can you see the look on George Karl's face.

Stinger:

I sure can Bob...Ha Ha ha.

Bob Rathman:

Glen Robinson is lighting up here in the 3rd quarter. He might drop 50 on these guys before the nights up. He's obviously got a vendetta. I mean what were these guys thinking trading him to a team in their own division. A team they'd have to play 5 times a year.

Stinger:

Maybe Karl wasn't thinking Bob...Ha ha ha.

Ira,Strick,Hanno,Cal,JV gone will this affect us?* Oh my god, yes~! It's great.

I'm a firm believer in stats/game. Most people say...well he only scored 3 ppg but he also played 10 minutes a game or if given 30 minutes, 9 ppg. So let's compare this years newly departed to last years casualties and base it on what they did per 48 minutes. Comparing points, rebounds, assists, steals and turnovers. Basing solely on last year's stats and not best season. (the "f" stands for full as in points per full game ppfg). Stats are per 48 minutes.

Ratliff vs. Bowdler

15.3 ppfg, 9.3 rpfg, .53 apfg, .58 spfg, 4.1 topfg, 4.69 Blocks.

.vs

9.35 ppfg, 9.4 rpfg, .85 apfg, 1.5 spfg, .89 topfg, 1.23 Blocks.

Now given this wasn't Ratliff's best season (only 3 games) and his numbers from Philly were much higher. But safe to say, that Ratliff's 6 more points and 3.46 blocks makes Ratliff a clear winner here despite turnovers.

Hendu vs. Hanno

16.28 ppfg, 10.95 rpfg, 1.18 apfg, 1.2 spfg, 2.4 topfg.

vs.

13.79 ppfg, 9.48 rpfg, 1.72 apfg, .69 spfg, 2.44 topfg.

except for 2.5 ppg and 1.5 rpg better for Henderson, they are identical. So henderson wins.

Toni vs. Strickland

18.78 ppfg, 7.02 rpfg, 6.83 apfg, 1.54 spfg, 2.28 topfg.

vs.

15.21 ppfg, 9.46 rpfg, 1.35 apfg, 1.39 spfg, 2.07 topfg.

although he rebounds a little less, it seems obvious that with 3.57 more ppg and 5.48 apg, Toni is more productive.

Crawford vs. IRA

19.51 ppfg, 9.24 rpfg, 1.8 apfg, 0.74 spfg, 3.67 topfg.

vs.

12.67 ppfg, 8.40rpfg., 1.7 apfg, 1.43 spfg, 1.85 topfg.

Crawford turns the ball over nearly 2 times more a game and IRA gets 3/4 of a steal more but Chris goes for 6.84 more points and . 84 more boards. slight edge Chris.

Dion vs. Vaughn

20.38 ppfg, 7.10 rpfg, 3.44 apfg, 1.88 spfg, 3.16 topfg.

vs.

14.02 ppfg, 4.25 rpfg, 9.13 apfg, 1.68 spfg, 2.91 topfg.

I'd call this a tossup with Dion scoring more and rebounding more but vaughn with a ton more assists. That said, Dion's size makes for better overall defense.

The totals.

The wounded

vs.

the replacements

90.25 ppg, 43.61 rpg, 13.78 apg, 5.21 spg, 15.61 topg.

vs.

65.04 ppg, 40.99 rpg, 14.75 apg, 5.69 spg, 10.16 topg.

so

25.21 ppg, 2.62 rpg, -.97 apg, -.48 spg, 5.45 topg.

I'd say we can afford to lose the others even with 5 more turnovers. Each steal, rebound and turnover are worth 1 point (since with 3 pointers, 40% fg% and freethrows, most teams average around 1 point per possesion and assists are worth 2. So the points add up like this.

25.21 + 2.62 + (-1.94) + (-.48) + (-5.45) = ppg lost to injuries. That's a difference of 19.96 ppg.

Now the hawks lost 40 games by 20 points or less. So assuming the Hawks had these players all season and assuming the ppg changes would have changed the outcome of half of these games. That's 20 wins. Now I might be exaggerting the difference or I might not...but injuries kill seasons....Just ask sacramento if they would have liked to have had Pedra during the Lakers series. So the Hawks in my formula would have had 53 wins and 29 losses instead of 33 and 49 and the top seed in the EAST.

The only problem here is DD is actually switching with JV so the assist number is skewed a little. but so what. This is a small vision of what the injuries cost us last year. Instead of Bowdler as the backup and Mohammed as the starter, we'd have had Ratliff start and Mohammed backup...that is where the numbers come from. So this shows the "Total cost of player over 48 minutes".

I hope this comes out o.k.

put a family photo on my own webspace so I could link to it.

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/d/a/...on%20family.jpg

She ain't that bad...is she?

c'mon buddy, this is your chance. you signed up yet. you've obviously got tons of time on your hands here. prove you are wise beyond your years. Play fantasy football with real Hawks fans. If the other hawks fans are doing it, you should be too.

just 2 spots left.

hey, I did my part....I referred "bulldogs"

that's a dang good article.

I'm in, but 20 is too many. 16 is a better number of teams. Can you/will bring it down.?

I've played in big leagues before and it's no fun at all. with 20 teams, some teams don't have 1 more or less 2 number one backs or receivers and it's awful when those teams have a bye.

So here's my question. Let's pretend the Hawks drafted a small forward this year. He was a junior in college who left school early. His first taste of pro basketball was to play in the Shaw summer league. Over 6 games here's his line.

In 28.8 minutes, he averaged 13.8 pts, 4.5 rebounds, 1.3 assists and 1 steal. He was asked to be the 3rd option at ball handler and guard the best scorer of the other teams P.G., S.G. or Small Forward. How would you rate his performance.

Most G.M's would pat themselves on the back for finding a quality 3 in the draft.

That player gentlemen is DeMarr Johnson. The only difference is that instead of Playing 32 minutes a night for Cincinatti the last 2 years taking 25 shots a game, he's been playing 24 minutes a game for us and taking 10 shots a game.

Before anyone goes icky balooky and states Dion is better than Demarr let's remember 3 important things.

1. The offense was running through Dion at the summer league as the Hawks were trying to showcase him for trade bait.

2. DeMarr was playing the 3 and Dion the 2. So height and weight matchups were greatly in Dion's favor.

3. Much of the summer league games are about transition basketball and not offensive sets. Meaning that the 1 and 2 guard get a great many more opportunities to go to the basket.

Now remembering that Dickau is actually a year older than Demarr let's look at his line. In 5 less minutes a game, he scored 5 less points, had 2 less rebounds and 4 more assists. The stat line is very compatible. Why these writers (and people on these boards) expect him to be the next coming of MJ or to put up 20 a game I don't know. Probably the same people who said the Manning for Nique trade was a good idea.

Give him 2 more years and he will be putting up 20 a game. Don't rush the kid.

And David Aldridge is a horse's rear.

once again I must chime in.

I found the job Lon did last year admirable at the least.

Ratliff, Henderson, Kukoc, Crawford, Dion, Davis and Vaughn all missed substantial time last year. Not one of those guys is a superstar, but even L.A. would dump their bench to add those 7 healthy. 319 player games lost to injury. That's just under 4 a game or 1/3 of the team.

Now, who does this remind me of. The San Antonio Spurs of 96-97. David Robinson and Sean Elliot Go down for the season. Various other players in the rotation are all out from time to time. How did they do? Poorly enough to land Tim Duncan with the top pick in the draft.

Lon won over 30 games with what?

2 starting guards under 6-2. An underweight 6-9 small forward who should've been a junior in College and another small forward who was exiled to the CBA....a throw away backup center from Philly and SAR. and he won 40% of his games. My god, Hanno and Bowdler were a real part of the rotation. Toni's feet hurt so bad he couldn't cut or shoot real jumpers. Henderson was 15 pounds heavier when he came back because he couldn't do cardio while injured and we still won 33 games.

Lon Should've been coach of the year last year. He didn't have a consistent game plan because he didn't have consistent game on the floor. Kudos for being flexible and trying to win with what he had left. If, and this is a big if, the hawks can limit the injuries....specifically to J.T., SAR and Theo...all 3 are the core of the team as built and the Hawks commit to a lineup as such, JT/Dion/DJ/SAR/Theo starting with DD/IRA/Toni/Hendu/Nazr backing them up and Crawford mending on the bench with Haslem or Smith as the 12th man, then they are legit contenders for the E.C. Take a look at it logically. The only place we're small is Center. But dang that team can run and shoot.

I honestly hate all the trade talk right now. I hate people questioning the long term plan. For the first time in years (fratello days) we have a long term plan. Salary cap room on the way and a deep bench. Players that can step on your chest and dunk. A real 5 man transition game and backups that can shoot from outside.

Injuries killed the Hawks last year, but it also made them better...much better. Tons of playing time for Nazi, DJ and crew. What did Lon do best last year? He didn't panic, throw in the towel, or turn on his players (ala Tim Floyd or Larry Brown). Give him time. Just like the Spurs, the best thing to happen to the Hawks were all the injuries. Now they're in a spot to compete.

O.K.....Back off the soap box.

Now on to Diesel, BlackHawkDown and Hawksfreak.

I must applaud Diesel for his effort on his trade ideas. Though I don't agree with his insistence to upgrade through trades (I believe in building through scouting, drafting and coaching...but I'm patient), give the guy props for effort and research. Buddy, put some of that effort into keeping our players healthy and I'm on the bandwagon.

BHD, I feel you brother. But cut the Euro's a little slack. I agree they are way over valued but a little Euro here or there on your squad as a spot up shooter is a good thing. Most Euro's bring a more fundementally sound (albeit boring) game and can't help but push the real talented kids of todays game to be more rounded players...but your right, I hate hearing, "and SLitsuSIcOv passes to irkviken mein Heiney in the Corner"....perhaps they should adopt XFL names if their gonna play here like, "He can't pronounce me" or "Just call me ski"

Hawksfreak....you're improving buddy, but a quick etiquette lesson. Don't ask repeatedly if everyone likes your articles. Just look at how ofter they're read or responded to and you'll know. Asking for acceptance is a huge sign of immaturity. Lay low and you'll get more acceptance. And don't send another 4 letter word laced pm to me...it's juvenile.

Let me put this to rest right now. Hawksfreak....stop it, right now. I'm a network admin. an MCSE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer). Let me explain remote access to you. In order for you to be on the internet right now, you'd need an internal modem for you laptop, with a wireless adapter or option...That would cost a couple hundred extra bucks. Possible, but here's the 2 part problem with what you're saying. You'd

A. have to be able to get a solid cell connection to communicate via modem....much better than basic voice communication. Very doubtful in "the clark atheletic center".

but possible. You see, a laptop cellular modem has a

B. 2 and this is where you'll have issues. A cell dialer won't charge you long distance to dial a local connection in atlanta so yes you'll have the same I.P. as if you dialed at home...bravo but won't you won't have is resources...2 specific resources. Resource 1.....a free IRQ. The chances of you having 2 modems in the laptop with a free IRQ for both are worse than your chances of getting on a flight by yourself with hotel accomodations overnight. I'd explain but let's not get into details.

I've read most of your "insider info" and most of it comes from www.nba.com/hawks from the q and a with babbs.

Now, let me explain this last thing to you. Corporate executives of professional sports franchises worth over $400 million dollars whose very livelyhood depends on not releasing information until the ownership and league authorize it don't spend their free time bouncing trade ideas off 12 year olds. They don't lament salary cap issues to prepubecent youths that spout off on internet message boards....ever.

I greatly appreciate your enthusiasm but if for any reason you feel the need to waste my time with nonsense posts and outright lies while I'm trying to learn more about the hometown team, go away and shut up. If you would like to post positive information and add genuine "OPINION" to the discussion then by all means chat away. I have a son just a little older than you and understand where you're coming from.

Now understand where I'm coming from. It's annoying.

still waiting for the game story, but Udonis Haslem seems to have had a good day in his pro debut.

According to the story at www.nba.com/hawks he wen't for 12 points and 13 rebounds in the first summer league game.

That's 13 rebounds....that's alot in any league against any level of competition.

FYI-Glover went for 21 points. They're obviously showcasing him to help up his trade value.