thecampster

Thanks for noticing. Work takes up a lot of my time these days but I also made the conscious choice to post less insider info. I posted the other day that the NBA is taking leaking more seriously due to agents/teams leveraging social media with leaks. I wouldn't be surprised to hear something about this in the news this weekend. They are handling these matters internally but that too could leak. For the record, I was sharing the KAT info privately on this board 3 weeks ago in a few private messages as well as the JC is as good as gone a week before it happened, but I'm also aware that either A) people like to scrutinize and or B) my posts have been followed by lurkers and used outside of the board. I'm trying to move to a higher standard of only posting a higher quality of rumor 1) to avoid being used when those feeding information are trying to promote agendas and 2) to not come off as an attention seeker. That's just not me. On the Kat front, Talks with Kat got more serious about a month ago with the understanding both teams had to line up things to make something happen. Kat was not the only player discussed. Minny would move Gobert for a step out center type (like Lopez) if they could. Like everyone, they love the defense but most modern NBA teams are made up of slashers/3 point shooting and that takes up a lot of space. A big man down low clogging up space (see Clint) hampers the slashing offense (see JC). Most all talk in the media is Minny driven as they are desperately trying to up the offers on KAT. They can't undersell him because they overpaid for Gobert (realize I love Gobert but not at the price they paid). So Minny is trying to get offers to make Atlanta up theirs but its coming off as desperate. Siakam - Almost all chatter on Siakam is Toronto and Siakam's reps driven. Siakam wants out, wants out to a top 15 level team. He doesn't like their rebuild direction as has been previously reported. Yes Atlanta inquired, yes they check in. But Atlanta isn't driving this conversation and any reports we were trying to move DJM to get him was gross misconduct from a reporting perspective. Siakam's value is good, even great but not elite. His age, concerns about a coming decline and his 1 year left really kill his value. Toronto waited too long to enter this game and now are scrambling. They used Atlanta's name in hopes of jumping in as a third party to the JC deal before it was complete. Both Kat and Siakam deals are possible, could even happen this weekend but it won't be the packages people are reporting. Clint going to a third party in an deal with Minny + 2 other assets (probably Gay + pick...maybe 1 youngin). Clint + 2 assets in any deal with Toronto. Remember that we have 3 more days to make a decision on Bruno and that plays heavily in to this and who we take back. Clint out make OO the starter and opens up real playing time for Bruno. Clint stays makes Bruno a snt target in a split deal. There is a reason we haven't requested waivers on Gay yet and it isn't that we see him as a valuable part of next season's plans. Bogi is a name that is back in mentions but who is also not available for trade until September. We may hear something on this with a belated trade completion date. Last bit and I don't think anyone else has mentioned this. The Murray extension can be related to something simmering under the surface. A few big markets (NY/Phi/LA/SA/Houston) are not happy with their no title status and want a name to sell jerseys and the name privately being floated is Trae Young. Teams have inquired as to what it would take to get Young. Murray's signing, the team drafting a Murray like player in Bufkin and trading for TyTy is a little scary given the chatter. Nothing there is imminent (that I've heard) but if the Hawks aren't competitive by the All-star break, they may go "big" and move Trae for a star big, move Murray to the full time starter at the point. Become more defense oriented. Trae and his people are aware. The above teams have all inquired about Trae. LA and NY having the most interest. All exploratory at this point but the haul back would very high.

Dunno, but its been super evident this year and the league isn't having any of it.

So numerous burner accounts in use by NBA agents, trying to light fires under front offices, fan bases. If the twitter poster is not a nationally recognized figure, do not believe it. NBA not happy right now with this negotiation tactic and is considering action.

FYI, this happens in mergers all the time. You sign up with company A, put in time, they are acquired by company B who has a business dress policy, different office location, layoff your supervisor and put you under someone you have a personality clash with. The situation s are very similar. You are sill being paid x salary to show up every day. The NBA player goes into this eyes wide open. He knows trades happen, knows its a business. The average player is being paid 100 times the average person's salary in the trade off ($50k a year vs $5 mil a year).

The interesting thing about opinions is people have them and believe them to be true, but that doesn't make them true. Last year the Hawks were 1-5 without Trae. The previous year, 4-5. That's 5-10 the last 2 seasons. You can believe they're better than the Houston team without Harden, but the number don't bear that out. The Rocket's record without Harden that year was 6-4. 1-5 vs 6-4. I understand its a small sample size but nothing in those stats show them to be better than the 17-18 rockets.

Okay, lets compare DJM, Clint, Hunter, BB, OO, JJ, AJ Paul, Clint, Gordon, Tucker, Gerald Green, Trevor Ariza, Nene, Anderson, Joe Johnson Those are pretty good pieces man. I don't think you can say the rest of our squad was better than that.

1) What do you hope to accomplish by "keeping it real" on Trae 2) Do you realize other players on that 17-18 Rockets team included Eric Gordon, Joe Johnson, Ryan Anderson, PJ Tucker and Nene Hilario??? That was a stacked team. Attributing anything specifically to Capela is a far stretch on that team. Trae is not perfect, shot poorly this past year and has room for improvement but I'm not prepared to throw the baby out with the bath water here. If the Hawks traded Trae tomorrow for a similarly talented player and turned the point guard duties over to Murray, I'd be disappointed but I wouldn't go crazy either. I'm a fan but I'm not so vested as to cause pre-emptive drama. Food digests better when the stomach isn't bent up in knots.

I reviewed what he says is being talked about....he's high. Unless we're getting back draft compensation, this is crazy. Basically he's saying DJM+Hunter+OO+15 = Siakam+filler. That's not good value. That's not even remotely good value. Higher than a Chinese weather balloon. There are talks ongoing but we ain't going out like that. They need the salary dump in Siakam, you usually get a little better deal in a situation like that. It looks like to me he just kept adding players in till the salaries matched......because reasons!

Hmmm....I suppose that's possible (unless paperwork submitted to league). Let me have a think on this.

Can't add TPE to Players for player. TPE for Sign n Trade or free agent signing.

People think you have to give the sun and the moon to get Kat. You don't. They're motivated. Ideally, they'd want 3-4 salaries to replace his salary to fill out the roster. There are only a few teams with the assets, motivation and need for them to trade with. Imagine if you will they are able to go 3 for 1 with Minny, get Kat but keep 1 of DJM, Hunter....now you're talking a hard to pass up deal.

I got asked privately about the possible 3 for 1 deals out there and the 2 recently acquired players. See below: "Another popular misconception is that a player cannot be traded to one team and subsequently traded to another without some delay. If the acquiring team is over the cap upon executing the first trade, the player has an aggregation restriction for 60 days. In other words, the player can be re-traded immediately, but his salary cannot be combined with another player’s salary to acquire a higher-salaried player for roughly two months." We are not saying that Garuba or TyTy are being packaged (read above). What we're saying is they would take the roster spots of the traded players. If the Hawks (for example) were trading Hunter, DJM, Matthews for Kat (FYI, this basic framework has been floating for some time and recently gained enough traction to be suggested on social media and in a "grade the trade proposal" article see here" https://soaringdownsouth.com/2023/06/29/grade-trade-hawks-send-dejounte-timberwolves-stunning-idea/3/) . Kat's salary is significantly higher than either of the 3. Meaning to stay in an advantageous position with the LT Apron, we'd have to replace 2 of them with substantially cheaper players. If the above were the trade, the way to look at it would be like a 3 way trade. Houston send 2 players to Atlanta and draft compensation. Atlanta send Kaba's rights to Houston and 3 players to Minny. Minny sends 1 player to Atlanta. Net for Atlanta is 3 for 3, Kaba's rights for 2 picks. In the above scenario, Atlanta's cap number goes up $1.1 million from where it was pre-Houston deal. Again, nobody is saying those players are combined in a trade today. They'd be replacing roster slots with low salary, not being used to be packaged. I expect some flaming

You and I agree an awful lot but then you go and say something like this. I have friends all over from different NBA cities. To a man they all say they with they had Trae Young. I have a friend from New York who says he absolutely hates Trae Young and at the same time hates that he isn't a Knick. Trae is a must see villain to a lot of NBA fans. Many of them admit that if he played in LA or Boston, he'd shoot 10 more free throws a game and lead the league in every offensive category. If he were traded tomorrow, I'd still be a fan of the Hawks, but I'd be afraid every time he came to State Farm he'd hang 40/15 on us. Trae is like that little princess from Wreck it Ralph. Every time you think you've got him beat, he glitches and blinks through the wall. People hate him because they don't understand how he does what he does to their team. Trae's current pace in points and assists slates him to be top 10 all time in both categories. If (and its a big if with point guards), he plays to 35, Trae could reasonably finish top 2 in assists all time and finish top 10 in points. That's a superstar my friend. The man has played 5 NBA seasons, 70.6 games per year. He's totaled 8990 points and 3285 assists. Top 10 in points is 27,490, Moses Malone. That's possible. Top 10 in assists is Isaiah Thomas at 9061. One referee's ankle kept him from the finals in his 3rd season. Rules changes were made specifically because he was looking like a video game exploit. When the league changes their offenses rules in response to you, you're a superstar. Its that simple.

2 things with this trade. Frees up salary for Houston to sign a player. Gives the Hawks roster fill if they do a 3 for 1 acquisition.

Old guy can't jump on my bed any more. He's pretty salty about it.

A note on the team's resigning players. Don't get bent out of shape about that and compare that to what we're doing. Those players have a hold on their teams for 50% more than their salary. I.E., player has $10 mil salary, has a $15 mil hold, signs for $14 mil, team created $1 mil room. You have to see it that way. Its not us vs them. Each team's cap situation is their own.

I think I've figured out some of the Hawks motivation in the JC trade. First posting the new relevant information from the new CBA. 1. First Apron Level Rules. In addition to the Tax Apron transaction rules in the current CBA, the following transaction rules will apply at the First Apron Level. a. Signings – “Buyout” Players. Teams will be unable to sign a player during a Regular Season if he was waived during that Regular Season and had a prewaiver Salary for that year greater than the amount of that year’s Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level Salary Exception. Posted on June 28, 2023 2 b. Trades i. Traded Player Exception (“TPE”) Multiplier  During the period from July 1, 2023 through the last day of the 2023- 24 Regular Season, teams will be unable to use a TPE in excess of 110% of the Salary of the Traded Player(s); and  Beginning on the day after the last day of the 2023-24 Regular Season, teams will be unable to use a TPE in excess of 100% of the Salary of the Traded Player(s). ii. Pre-Existing TPEs. Beginning on the day after the last day of the 2023- 24 Regular Season, teams will be unable to use a TPE generated in a prior year. (For purposes of this rule, a “year” is measured from end of Regular Season to end of Regular Season.) 2. Second Apron Level Rules. The following transaction rules will apply at the Second Apron Level. a. Signings – Taxpayer MLE. Teams will be unable to use the Taxpayer MidLevel Salary Exception. b. Trades. Beginning on the day after the last day of the 2023-24 Regular Season, teams will be unable to: i. Aggregation. Use a TPE generated by aggregating the Salaries of multiple Traded Players. ii. Cash. Convey cash to another team in a trade. iii. Sign-and-Trade. Acquire a Player Contract using a TPE in respect of a player whose Contract was traded pursuant to a sign-and-trade. So avoiding the tax isn't just about not paying the tax, its also about flexibility. Trading JC away avoids all of the restrictions generated by the 1st level. 1. If your team is above the 1st apron level: a) can't sign players on the waiver wire in a salary dump. IE you'll have to pay the full salary if you claim him if above this level. (See LA/Boston/Dallas/SA/Miami). b) can't sign a player for vet min 3 mil out of a TPE of $25 million (again...only if above this level). This is for roster adds pre-playoffs (again, stops ring chasing). c) can't sign a player for vet min out of a large TPE before the next season starts just to get a jump on him/her for signing next contract. (see tank-a-thon post season early signings). 2. If your team is above the 2nd apron level: a) Can't use the T MLE for a late season addition, roster stacking. This rule would seem to stack with rule 1b. b) Can't stack TPE's to grab a player outside of your roster salary restrictions (see Boston, LA, Dallas). This is an extension of 1b, 2a. This explains why certain players opted in. Less ability to skirt rules to be signed by others. (Draymond). Teams less likely to risk on older players because there is less opportunity to dump them before the trade deadline if things don't work out. This explains dumping JC. This wasn't to avoid the tax, but to avoid the restrictions on mid-season trading imposed at apron 1. If $5mil under apron, team waives Draymond. You could sign him vet minimum, other team on the hook for the rest for tax / cap calculation. $5 over apron, you have to pay his full remaining salary to acquire him (if I'm reading that right). Keeping JC isn't just a financial decision but a flexibility decision on championship roster building. This looks designed to stop player collusion mid season and give greater parity among playoff teams chasing waived players.

Salary perspective. Desmond Bane = 2 DJM. I think you went easy calling it absurd.

Let me try to sort this out for you folks. If there was a good market for JC, we would have taken advantage of it. Fields didn't sit there going, "well the Clips are offering 2 1sts but I'm going to take Gay and a 2nd". We took the best offer available so we can move forward. This was about moving JC to clear money and try to find better fits around the players you have. That's it. It isn't being cheap, its being smart. I own 3 dogs. One hates squirrels. One has been my buddy for > 10 years. The last is highly entertaining even if he's huge and afraid of his own shadow, he makes me laugh and gives me something to do. One keeps my yard varmint free. one is my buddy. One is my project. They all serve a purpose. I couldn't function well with 3 buddies nor with 3 varmint trackers nor with 3 with psychological issues. They all serve a purpose. JC has talents....but he isn't a better rebounder than Clint. Clint takes a lot of the rebounds JC normally gets. He isn't a better passer than JJ, nor does he have a higher ceiling. He doesn't have the dog in him Bey does and isn't fearless like OO. They all are better at what he can bring to the table and he isn't a consistent enough 1v1 player or 3 point shooter to justify him that way either. He's a very poor help defender (conflict Trae), poor read defender (conflict DH/CC). He's a terrible fit. Great guy, decent player, awful fit.

Reminder, waiving Gay only saves us money if someone else signs him. It saves us the value of his new contract (vet min - about $3 million). I really need to go read the new CBA (I've put it off). Someone is going to call me on the carpet when I miss something new.

Insight

Hawks nation - We only got a TPE for John Collins. Laker Nation -

Jalen is going to be featured in some pick n roll, pick n pop action this year. His advantage here is the ability to facilitate out of the receiver position. Nothing our other bigs can really do.

You're assuming all stay. I'm just saying I wouldn't be opposed to having him back. All his points of conflict are out the door and I'm assuming the last few seasons humbled him.