thecampster
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Posts posted by thecampster
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59 minutes ago, sturt said:
I like Harkless, but he's had two seasons that he wasn't the Harkless I like.
So, yeah... by all means... would love to see if we could get some stronger, more reliable asset.
But.
I'd thought you can't combine a trade exception with any other asset (???).
You're thinking in a box. See the Dallas example below:
https://cbabreakdown.com/salary-cap-exceptions
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Example — A number of trade credits were created, and later used, as a part of the New York Knicks trading Kristaps Porzingis to the Dallas Mavericks in February of 2019.
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Dallas, treating Wesley Matthews as a non-simultaneous trade for CBA purposes in the large Porzingis deal, sent Matthews ($18.6 million) to the Knicks. From Dallas’ perspective, they basically sent Matthews over for “nothing”. Dallas now held an $18.6 million trade credit that it could use for up to 1 year.
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A week later, in a separate trade, Dallas sent Harrison Barnes ($21.3 million) to the Sacramento Kings for Zach Randolph ($11.7 million) and Justin Jackson ($2.8 million). Randolph’s contract was absorbed into the existing Wesley Matthews trade credit. Jackson was dealt with separately. Like the initial trade of Wesley Matthews, Dallas also treated the Harrison Barnes trade as a new, non-simultaneous trade and created a $21.3 million trade credit for him as well.
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Finally, in July of 2019, Dallas absorbed Delon Wright ($9.2 million) into that $21.3 million trade credit in a separate trade with the Memphis Grizzlies.
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1 hour ago, macdaddy said:
Can Harkless be traded now or is there a waiting period? I guess it's now. Do you know what type of player they are targeting? backup PF maybe.
Yes and no.
1 for 1 trade yes.
1 for 1 + non player assets, yes.
1 for 2 players, not until Aug 30.
Note: a Trade exception is a player asset as it involved another player.
Any trade of Harkless for a player > 125% + 100,000 of his salary would require a Trade Exception. In that case, the trade would be consummated after Aug 30 (but you could hear about it before then). Any trade for a player or non player considerations (IE cash / pick) can be consummated immediately as long as the trade is for 125% + $100,000 or less of Harkless's current salary.
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Rumor to pass along. Hawks are working the phones to pass along Harkless + trade exception from Huerter deal for a higher priced salary.
This would keep them at 13 players.
They are working on a few vets right now to bring in at the vet minimum and the MLE/partial MLE. May hear something over the weekend/after Summer League.
Possible we finish with a salary $10 million north of the Tax line.
First real solid info I've had to pass along in a while.
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For those saying we're being cheap and avoiding the tax.
13 players under contract.
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FYI, this already happened in private but with the Harden taking less money, its being shopped around that the Sixers lied to league investigators back in March. Don't be surprised if this ends up building steam in the coming weeks.
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As discussed on the Squawk back in Feb.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nba-rumors-ex-gm-thinks-180922521.html
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Alpha Kaba looks less than horrible. He is so lost. No idea what to do.
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Anyone know how he's recovered from that injury. If healthy, that's a quality piece to add. Very versatile big. I wanted him in the draft.
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I said it before. I hate this time of year. Its great when your team lands a Murray but Kevin was a class act. I hate to see him go. I'll be rooting a bit for Sacramento all year.
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2 hours ago, NBASupes said:
Why do you have Capela max salary when his cap hold is 18.2 million. If he hits his max, that means the Hawks made the conference finals which mean they don't care about the tax as they will make a lot of playoff money.
I removed them...that is what subbing out Clint's bonuses mean.
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Just now, timebomb said:
Yeah I get that part I guess what I’m saying is why are people so afraid of it. There seems to be ways to finagle the cap and it worked out pretty well for these two teams last year.
I've gone over the limiting aspects of the Apron earlier in this thread. Best to just go back to about page 300 and find those posts.
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24 minutes ago, NBASupes said:He would cost Atlanta the LT. I don't know if he is worth that for Atlanta
We need 3 players and only have $1.8 million to spend to avoid the LT....you are going to be in the LT barring a JC/Clint trade...just accept that.
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1 minute ago, timebomb said:
Chicago and Miami got hard capped by all of these moves last year. Can someone explain?
Chicago Bulls- Acquired Lonzo Ball from Pelicans via sign-and-trade.
- Acquired DeMar DeRozan from Spurs via sign-and-trade.
- Used non-taxpayer mid-level exception on Alex Caruso.
Miami Heat
- Acquired Kyle Lowry from Raptors via sign-and-trade.
- Used non-taxpayer mid-level exception on P.J. Tucker.
Acquiring a player in sign and trade limits you to spending at the tax apron level for 1 season. This is to stop rich teams from just signing away everyone else's players.
MLE's can be used up to $10.49 million but spending above $6.479 million limits you to the apron level. This is to stop teams from just offering 4 year salaries at the MLE to a vet every year, effectively having 4 hardship salaries of $40 million on their rosters rotating. Again to stop richer teams from abusing the cap structure.
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Part 2 - the last 3 slots. With the trade of Landale and subbing out Clint's bonuses, we are now at 12 salaries, $148,627,855.
This gives us access to the MLE but if we use more than $6,479,000 of the MLE, we become hard capped if we surpass the apron (which we would). So here is what is available to us now.
1. $6.479 mil MLE.
2. 2 trade exceptions. 1 expires 7/7 for $1.78 million. 1 expires 1/13 for $1.67 million.
3. Vet minimum contracts.
So why will it take time to fill out the last 3 roster slots? The MLE can be offered up to 4 years with annual raises. So negotiating the 1 right vet to take that salary at their preferred number of years is the key. The order those salaries are processed will matter for which rules kick in. So we're waiting on a few things.
1. If a trade involving Clint or JC takes place and the resulting salary impact (salary dump would give us the full MLE of $10.49 million to spend).
2. Summer league to see if a non-rostered player shows out.
3. A quality vet to be willing to accept an MLE deal to play here (someone like Robin Lopez).
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Part 2 - the last 3 slots. With the trade of Landale and subbing out Clint's bonuses,
we are now at 12 salaries,
$148,627,855
LT Line - $150,267,000
LT room - $1,639,123
Apron room - $8,355,145
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Why players get traded.
1. They no longer fit your scheme.
2. They are holding a roster spot needed for a greater need.
3. They give terrible value at their position/salary (ie: cap issues).
4. They hold such a high trade value that their return is greater than their production.
Analyzing the above 4, lets look at the anatomy of our 2 trades and the 2 that didn't go down yet this off season.
Gallo for Murray. Murray no longer fit San Antonio's long term plans (tanking, option 1). Gallo, though a good player was a terrible value for his salary and we are running into cap issues (option 3).
Huerter for Holiday/Harkness. Holiday was a needs casualty as Sacramento had a greater need for a wing shooter (option 2) and Harkness gave terrible value even at 4 million a year (option 3). Huerter is highly valued around the league, capable of bringing back 2 expirings and a 1st round pick. The Hawks tried hard to move other salary and could not. Huerter was the best value back per dollar they could return. (option 4). In short, the long term gain in moving Huerter was a 1st, 2 players to fill out a roster at the LT that still needs 3 more players. If Huerter's salary nets 2 useful vet minimum players it was a 4 for 1 plus pick swap. Too much not to take.
JC for anyone. The Hawks believe they can get ample return for Collins and replace his production at a lower cost. Unfortunately, there has not been a Huerter like package to take back that didn't include bad salary. JC's production is fairly equal to his salary level. Its possible to get back better return for his salary but it has to be a team in a need situation. That could happen at any time but because of the situation, its hard to get back better value than JC. PF is not a highly valued position in the league right now with the focus being on 3 and D wings and shot blocking bigs who can can also guard at the perimeter. Until the big names move around, offers for JC are not likely to open up but they could at any time. Trades for JC are going to be opportunistic, not just a salary dump. JC has value. JC is in the weird spot between 4 and 1. As long as Clint is here, JC is not a good fit in the scheme but he holds high enough trade value you can't just dump the salary. You have to get a solid return.
Bogi for anyone. Bogi's salary, health issues, inability to guard anyone off the dribble have hurt his trade value to the point we'd have to include 2nd rounders (plural) to get someone to take Bogi for anything of value. He has value but not until he can prove his knees are healthy. A trade for Bogi may not happen till the trade deadline and this is why Huerter became the player moved. Currently, Teams worry Bogi is in option 3.
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To be clear, I no longer like the salary fit on Simmons.....BUT.... You have to think of the rotations. At 6 minutes, Simmons takes a seat and someone subs in. At 9 minutes, Murray takes a seat and BB subs in. At the start of the 2nd quarter, Trae subs out, Simmons subs back in. At the 9 minute mark, Murray subs back in. At the 6 minute mark, Trae subs back in and Bogi sits. To finish the 2nd at the 3 minute mark Bogi subs back in and Simmons sits. There is a 3 minute window where the only primary ball hander on the floor is Simmons but he has Bogi on the floor with him.
6 minutes a game, you'd have Simmons + shooter/defenders. 42 minutes a game you'd have 2 to 3 of Simmons, Murray, Trae on the floor all at once. 3 players who've averaged at least 8 assists per game before. The team would be a nightmare cover. Although Simmons doesn't "shoot", he cuts/attacks with the best of them. There is a reason he's averaged 15.9 ppg for his career. Its not the worst idea. It also means if either Murray/Young go out for any significant amount of time, you have a built in PG for minutes. Don't crap on it until you fully understand it.
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2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:JJ starting to be the new Bruno. The guy everyone is placing into the rotation that looks like he needs another year of seasoning at College Park
Griffin is also going to College Park
Supes, Watch this game from Jalen vs the G-League Knicks. I know its G-League but what I want you to notice is how effortless he's making it all look. Dude looks like he just fell into 35 pts/15 boards. Look at his dribble/finish game. I'd give a months salary for Hunter to make things look this easy. This guy needs big club reps to figure out the defensive rotation thing. He's already better offensively than 2/3rds of our current team. He is not going to spend large swaths of time at College park this season.
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9 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:You forgot Justin Holiday as well.
2nd unit depth is looking like
A.Holiday | Bogi | J Holiday | JJ | OO
As far as the young guys go, JJ is the only one in the top 9 but as the 4th Big. OO is getting a minutes bump, so there may be 9 mins a night left for JJ when its all said and done.
Griffin would be outside looking in at the moment. His best shot will be the start of the season while Bogi is still rehabbing. Otherwise, he is your 5th wing.
Scoring/assist wise, as constructed, you are looking for Trae, JC and Dre to take and hit more spot up attempts. You still have Bogi, and the Holiday bro’s shoot in the mid-upper 30’s which is similar to Kev. Shooting should be pretty in line with what we are used to. Hot and cold nights.
Dribble drives will go up which can be assist opportunities too so there is that.
The biggest fall off is Gallo’s post/iso scoring. That is the lane where Dre can really make his mark for us this year. OO could also stand to improve his post work as well and play some bully ball down low and get to that baby hook he likes.
I think the way we score will look different, but we will still be putting up points. We will be at the FT line a lot more this season than we are used to.
Right now, Jalen Johnson has a better put the ball on the floor game that Deandre Hunter. If he only averages 9 minutes a game, I will be first in line to fire Nate McMillan.
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3 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:
Just to clarify, the apron only matters if we do a sign and trade right?
Yes
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3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/atlanta-hawks/cap/
I was wrong @thecampster
9 players.
Trae Young PG $37,096,500 - - - $37,096,500 19.45 $215,159,700
($215,159,700)
Rk Extension / Bird
John Collins PF $23,500,000 - - - $23,500,000 12.32 $102,000,000
($102,000,000)
Free Agent / Bird
Clint Capela C $18,206,897 - $2,000,000 - $18,206,897 9.55 $61,088,177
($61,088,177)
Acquired via Trade
Bogdan Bogdanovic SG $18,000,000 - - - $18,000,000 9.44 $36,000,000
($36,000,000)
Free Agent / Space
Kevin Huerter SG $14,508,929 - - - $14,508,929 7.61 $65,000,000
($65,000,000)
Rk Extension / Bird
De'Andre Hunter SF $9,835,881 - - - $9,835,881 5.16 $9,835,881
($9,835,881)
Drafted / Rookie Scale
Onyeka Okongwu PF $6,395,160 - - - $6,395,160 3.35 $14,504,223
($6,395,160)
Drafted / Rookie Scale
Jalen Johnson SF $2,792,640 - - - $2,792,640 1.46 $10,228,905
($2,792,640)
Drafted / Rookie Scale
Jock Landale C $1,563,5182022 NBA Luxury Tax Threshold $150,267,000
Total Taxable Salaries $131,899,525
Current Luxury Tax Space $18,367,47510 players
Draft:
AJ Griffin $2,946,800Total Taxable Salaries $134,846,325
13 players
Dejounte Murray 26 PG $16,571,120
Kevin Huerter 24 SG $14,508,929
Justin Holiday 33 SF $6,292,440
Maurice Harkless 29 SF $4,564,980
Aaron Holiday Free Agent 26 PG $1,836,0992022 NBA Luxury Tax Threshold $150,267,000
Total Taxable Salaries $149,602,03514 players - rookie min
Martin - $953,012
Atlanta will be over the LT by (288,047) with a total taxable salary of 150,555,047 if they sign Martin and more if they sign Cooper.
They could go into the season with this squad and make a trade to get out of the LT during ASB.
I'm counting Capela's bonus is the difference. In reality it won't matter. We'll be going over. I know the bonuses were moved to unlikely. They haven't been removed yet and are still possible to be awarded. Best to keep those in.
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12 minutes ago, h4wkfan said:
Are you sure those #s are right? I need to pull it back up, but based on my rough math in my head (which I’m sure is oh so accurate) I was coming out to around the 1.1 from that tweet (including AJ).
See Here:
Out Huerter - $14,508,929
In Holiday - $6,292,440 , Harkless $4,464,980
Total - $151,094,491 for 13 players.
LT Line - $150,267,000
LT room - -$827,491
Apron room - $5,888,509
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6 hours ago, thecampster said:
Assuming Aaron Holiday's deal is for the 4 year vet minimum of $1,968,175,
Total - $154,846,000 for 12 players
LT Line - $150,267,000
LT room - -$4,579,000
Apron room - $2,137,000
Out Huerter - $14,508,929
In Holiday - $6,292,440 , Harkless $4,464,980
Total - $151,094,491 for 13 players.
LT Line - $150,267,000
LT room - -$827,491
Apron room - $5,888,509
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Now that we're going to be in the Tax in 2022 - (a primer for our tax discussions going forward)
in Homecourt
Posted
$200k with 2 players to sign for a full roster is. After those 2 minimum contract players are signed in, you'll be $3 - $4 million into the cap minimum.