thecampster
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Posts posted by thecampster
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1 hour ago, AHF said:He bought the team so he is entitled to do this if he wants. But that isn't what I want from my owner. You made your money being or becoming an expert in your area. Your area wasn't scouting basketball talent. Hire your GM and let them run the show and fire them if you don't like what they are doing but don't interfere and give your GM directives on personnel moves.
I guess I'm much more on board with an owner vetoing certain moves than I am insisting on them. Like if TS wanted to give up JC, OO and 5 unprotected first round picks for KD and Ressler didn't want that then veto it but don't insist that TS go get KD if TS doesn't think that is a good idea. Maybe this isn't a rationale distinction but for me I'm less offended by an owner taking a few cards out of his GM's hand but letting the GM play his hand how he wants given that than I am insisting that he make a play the GM doesn't want to make.
Steve Jobs: “It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do. We hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.”Aug 22, 2019
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Just now, NBASupes said:
I don't know if this trade puts us in the top 4 of the east. Which is Philadelphia, Boston, Miami, and Milwaukee. It clearly puts us with Toronto, Brooklyn, Chicago. Moves us out of the playin tier we are in now with Cleveland and Charlotte
Its bigger than just Murray in, Collins out. It gives us 10 million more to spend this year and going forward. It give us the money to afford a deal like Gobert, to resign Wright, etc.
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4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:Okongwu is not a downgrade at the 4 to Collins. Defense >>>> offense at the 4.
Three 1st is massive. Especially for a team that would be Bulls level good after this deal assuming its JC and picks only.
That's a lot.
OO is not starting at the 4 this year if they trade Collins. You need to accept that. He'll be the rotational big and get 20-25 minutes a game (maybe) but he won't start at the 4. It will either be an experience 4 or JJ.
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1 minute ago, NBASupes said:Okongwu is not a downgrade at the 4 to Collins. Defense >>>> offense at the 4.
Three 1st is massive. Especially for a team that would be Bulls level good after this deal assuming its JC and picks only.
That's a lot.
If you can't see the difference between 3 lottery 1sts (value) and 3 low 1st round 1sts...I don't know what to say. Those salaries at that level of the draft are equal to vet minimum salaries. If you're trying to contend, vet minimums are the better spend anyway.
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Just now, NBASupes said:
Okongwu is not a downgrade at the 4 to Collins. Defense >>>> offense at the 4.
Three 1st is massive. Especially for a team that would be Bulls level good after this deal assuming its JC and picks only.
That's a lot.
Our firsts would not be very high...they would most likely be 21-30 which is what we'd be trading. The draft is a crap shoot at that range.
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Just now, MaceCase said:
But are they tough? Zeke and Dumars had a whole prison yard protecting them.
Cleveland is the closest modern example but they have a JUMBO frontcourt.
Cleveland was a few injuries away from being a serious contender. That team was no joke.
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18 minutes ago, MaceCase said:Well that’s the question, what’s reasonable? What’s reasonable in a vacuum? What’s reasonable in the market?
I just wonder when I see reasoning like this
“Go build up a young contender with players that are on the same timeline as Trae”
When the key trade pieces are a young player that played on a young contender and draft assets that all fit the same timeline as Trae. Sounds like shuffling to shuffle and apologies, quoting you seems to have screw up the formatting.
A few "ifs".
If Atlanta gets Murray, the downgrade at PF won't be dramatic and the trade creates $10 million in cap space to improve other roster slots. But Murray gives them 2 primary ball handlers/insurance if Trae goes out for an extended period of time.
If the Hawks continue to spend up to and around the LT, you can expect them to continue to be outside the lottery.
The future picks the next 3 years + would be outside the top 20.
3 first round picks in the 5-15 range is very different than 3 picks 21-30.
If SAS was asking for 3 lottery 1st rounders, I'd be balking too. But 3 21-30 picks, you're hoping 1 turns out to be a rotational player. In that case you're trading JC + 1 rotational player (3x21+ picks = 1 rotational player) for Murray. That's a very easy return, especially when that extra $10 million in salary can buy you a replacement rotation player...probably a better one. The Charlotte pick is already protected top 18 this year. I'd send 23, 25 and Charlotte's pick but only if I also have a plan at center and a plan to spend our other money. You don't trade for Murray in that situation in a vacuum. You have a plan going along with it.
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27 minutes ago, NBASupes said:
Meaning there is only one player that will get Boston to trade Brown.
I would caution you about speaking in absolutes like this. Saying things like "I'll never marry a redhead" is the one surefire way to ensure you end up marrying a redhead.
The reality is Boston is already $8 million over the LT entering the 2022-23 season. Now Boston only has 1 empty roster slot and 2 non-guaranteed salaries (minus Horford's partial guarantee). Their only pathway to improve and get back to the Finals (they were very lucky getting there this year) is to make trades and to get the kind of improvement you need, you have to do something with their top salaries. That $19 million partial guarantee to Horford really hampers them. There is also the feeling that after his contract ends in 2 seasons, Brown will want to see if he can find a better situation. Boston knows this and Brown is not off-limits. There is no rush to trade him but they realize that Brown wants a perfect situation.
Much like our situation with Collins. They value Brown and there is no bad blood. But their only path forward may be through using brown to upgrade their weaknesses.
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1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:
Yes, $6 million over the LT (that's only in play if we do a SnT)
Teams that are under the cap will have their cap holds applied to their overall cap while teams that are over the cap will not have their cap holds applied but must use any exceptions they possess. If a team uses their Bi-Annual, Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level, or Sign-and-Trade they will be considered to be hard-capped and must keept below the Luxury Tax Apron ($155,196,200).
1 hour ago, marco102 said:Would the tax apron be about $155,000,000?
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On 6/13/2022 at 8:44 AM, thecampster said:
Player 2022-23 With Waived Trae Young $36,600,000 John Collins $23,500,000 Danilo Gallinari $21,450,000 $5,000,000 Clint Capela $19,706,897 Bogdanovic $18,000,000 Kevin Huerter $14,508,929 De'Andre Hunter $9,835,881 Onyeka Okongwu $6,395,160 Jalen Johnson $2,792,520 Total $152,789,387 Cap Projected $122,000,000 LT Projected $149,000,000 Without Danilo - $136,339,387
Player 2022-23 With Waived Trae Young $36,600,000 John Collins $23,500,000 Danilo Gallinari $21,450,000 $5,000,000 Clint Capela $19,706,897 Bogdanovic $18,000,000 Kevin Huerter $14,508,929 De'Andre Hunter $9,835,881 Onyeka Okongwu $6,395,160 AJ Griffin $2,907,300 Jalen Johnson $2,792,520 Total $155,696,687 Cap Projected $122,000,000 LT Projected $149,000,000 Without Danilo - $139,246,687
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34 minutes ago, sturt said:
See, all this time, I just thought every trade was like that... that technically no trade made after the February trade deadline was completed until after July 1, the new season... ie, that pre 7/1 trades were announced but just that... that because the old salary is already paid and that season's past, and so the new salary and new season apply.
What you're telling me is that, no, if a trade is done in this in-between period, the teams actually have always had an option to use either the just-done season's salary or the coming season's salary as the premise for the trade.
I just never understood that to be the case... and/but I can't find anything to confirm or deny, and it's usually safe to take your word on these things. I stand corrected.
You can't trade after the trade deadline, until the season ends because only those on your roster can qualify for post season. Once eliminated you can trade again and those trades are processed during the calendar year they are "processed" by the league.
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33 minutes ago, sturt said:
See, all this time, I just thought every trade was like that... that technically no trade made after the February trade deadline was completed until after July 1, the new season... ie, that pre 7/1 trades were announced but just that... that because the old salary is already paid and that season's past, and so the new salary and new season apply.
What you're telling me is that, no, if a trade is done in this in-between period, the teams actually have always had an option to use either the just-done season's salary or the coming season's salary as the premise for the trade.
I just never understood that to be the case... and/but I can't find anything to confirm or deny, and it's usually safe to take your word on these things. I stand corrected.
Teams do that to meet the 90% threshold in the current calendar year.
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On 6/24/2022 at 10:58 AM, NBASupes said:
Pippen is actually good, surprised he wasn't picked.
He isn't super athletic, not super quick, didn't go to a top program, he just plays good basketball. I'm wondering if in 3 years people will look back and say, "How did he not get drafted". He's a mid tier bench guy IMHO but he's a player and the "potential" guys that went instead of him based on measurables bothers me. The kid can play.
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2 hours ago, sturt said:
I get that. That's understood.
Mulligan?
Season ends.
Trades are made before 7/1.
Does the current year's salary still apply? Like, if we traded Gallo today, would his salary for the purposes of that trade be $20.5m or $21.5m?
I'd taken it that it's $21.5m. His 21-22 salary ($20.5m) has already been paid. In terms of salary exception in a trade, it doesn't apply. That's wrong, though?
Technically current year.
Same question. If we traded Huerter today he'd be on the restriction that averages his salary between last years and next years. Traded after July 8th. Next years.
Edit:
That's why on Draft night they say, "Detroit is picking for Denver" because part of the trade they want on next year's salary so it won't be finalized till after the new season begins.
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32 minutes ago, sturt said:
You're sure about this (?).
I remain baffled. This came up a few weeks ago with Supes.
The 21-22 season is done, but the inherent assertion is that the 21-22 season salaries still apply... and that's just foreign to me. As far as I've ever known, trades that are made after the season but before 7/1... because the player has already played and made his 21-22 money... technically aren't official until after 7/1 and accordingly must be based on the salary for the next season.
But your telling me this suggests I'm wrong... and not just that I'm wrong present tense, but literally for all the time we've been doing this salary cap thing in the NBA, I've been wrong.
I've scoured the CBA FAQ site. Not finding evidence I'm wrong. Help me.
See last year.
OFF-SEASON
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August 2, 2021 (6pm eastern) — Beginning of upcoming salary cap year’s moratorium period
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August 3 — Start of salary cap year
This year's moratorium period begins July 1.
Start of Salary cap year should be July 2.
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33 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:
You are really trying to stir up some
, aren’t you?
As if fantasies of Ayton, Murray, and KD aren’t enough to turn the Squawk into a frenzy of insanity, you’re just going to casually drop this in the mix?
Really? Why not include Steph, Giannis, and Jokic, too?
because there is no chance of those 3 being on the market this offseason. Though I'll take a step back, "outside chance" may have been too hopeful for those on the squawk looking for every possibility and making it a definite.
Rumor out of Boston is they would break up Brown and Tatum if the right deal materialized. Brown is a player we've coveted for a long time who has local ties. I'm not saying this is being discussed actively, but there is a chance Brown is shopped this offseason and if so, we'd be one of his preferred destinations. Do I think its happening, no. Do I think its possible?...small chance.
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23 minutes ago, sturt said:
You're sure about this (?).
I remain baffled. This came up a few weeks ago with Supes.
The 21-22 season is done, but the inherent assertion is that the 21-22 season salaries still apply... and that's just foreign to me. As far as I've ever known, trades that are made after the season but before 7/1... because the player has already played and made his 21-22 money... technically aren't official until after 7/1 and accordingly must be based on the salary for the next season.
But your telling me this suggests I'm wrong... and not just that I'm wrong present tense, but literally for all the time we've been doing this salary cap thing in the NBA, I've been wrong.
I've scoured the CBA FAQ site. Not finding evidence I'm wrong. Help me.
New salary cap is instituted the day after day 1 of the new season during the moratorium.
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Okay so the draft is over, June 29th is fast approaching. Why haven't we done anything?
The Hawks' offseason is all tied up in Gallo. If we keep Gallo on the roster, we're in the LT with 6 players to sign.
If we waive Gallo we're 13 million from the LT with 7 players to sign.
The offseason begins (always has) with Gallo. That decision happens within 4 days one way or another.
This isn't to say Gallo won't be traded after the moratorium. He could be and that's part of the oddness that is this offseason.
What happens with Collins?
July 8th opens up a world of opportunities as it pertains to Collins. This is the end of the moratorium and for other teams whose extensions are kicking in, their new salaries are kicked in July 8th. This opens up the trade partners for Collins. That said, I'd give us a 50/50 chance to get a deal done for Murray and if so, this should create a trade exception for us as well to use later (see Gobert). There's some moving parts here.
What about Huerter?
July 8th his full salary kicks in, making trading him, packaging him with CC easier to do.
What about BB?
His salary stays the same as last year. This helps his trade value as he's a better bargain this year than last (lower percentage of the cap with less years of salary left). I never expected BB gone before the moratorium ended and I expect both Utah and Boston to come sniffing as well as Brooklyn. There's an outside chance he lands in LA.
What about Capela?
Similar to BB. Big jump in the cap compared to the jump in his salary with 1 less year remaining. He's a better trade target this year, than last. I didn't expect Capela moved before July 8th.
What about Ayton?
IMHO we're 3rd on that list right now. Mostly likely landing spot, Detroit. 2nd most, resign with Phoenix.
What about Gobert? IMHO we are 2nd on the list behind Utah right now. Best guess is he stays there but I'd say we've got about a 40% chance of landing him. Any deal for Gobert (from our end) is going to be Capela, Bogi (or Huerter), + picks (current or future).
What about other? There is an outside chance we could end up in a Jaylen Brown sweepstakes. This is one of the few deals we'd consider JJ or OO in. There are other minor players we could be in the hunt for.
We can't make any decisions on Wright, Knox, others until we settle Gallo and any potential upgrade trades. Most of our opportunities don't materialize until July 8. This is why the ball is now in SAS' court. If they want to get Collins before other suitors arrive, they have 4 days to do it....before we waive Gallo.
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4 hours ago, Sothron said:
My source when asked said we took BPA just like the year before with Jalen. They saw a player they had rated in the lottery fall to 16 and took him. He did say it was kinda funny that SAS worked him out so much but didn't take him. I asked the same question about was he taken to be traded later and was told "nothing is off the table except trading Trae."
I asked about the secret trade and the Collins situation. I was told that Landry Fields was the one responsible for the misinformation being intentionally leaked to media. I asked why was it so important to do that. The feeling is that Landry felt TS was too open about trade targets and in public comments. Felt the team needed to throw teams off the scent and hide our true intentions to give us an advantage in trade talks or free agent talks.
Source said no one in the FO truly believed it was necessary to trade Collins by draft night. That was a leaked rumor to the media. I asked about Murray. Source got a little secretive about that and the secret trade. Said the feeling was SAS leaked the Murray talks at the last second to try and get more interest/force the Hawks to give up more assets.
FWIW based off his comments I do think the Murray situation was our secret trade. Source said the talks are not dead on Murray. Apparently we're engaging the Nets still on KD talks and until the Brooklyn situation is sorted out it is putting a pause on other talks. They did confirm the report that the Hawks had talks with several teams about Collins as genuine.
I am not stating the Murray trade was the secret trade as a fact simply that is my informed opinion. I'm curious if @thecampster and @NBASupes feel the same way.
No, confirmed. That was it!
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15 minutes ago, AtLaS said:I don't doubt that these conversations are taking place, just that we don't know how serious any of it is, or which ones are more real than others. Or what is being leaked to drive up/down a players value to improve a separate trade that is being worked.
I'm sure every GM speaks with every other GM in the NBA during the season multiple times. We should be asking about players when they come available.
Hypothetically it could be as simple as Schlenk calling up Sean Marks about Durant just to get an idea of cost, and Marks saying it's going to take OO/Collins/JJ/3 1sts and Schlenk saying FU and hanging up. Then it gets leaked to the media that ATL is strongly considering this offer for Durant. Brooklyn has good motivation to leak that since it could drive up Durant's price to another team, even if talks with ATL were never serious anyway.
You have no idea how close to 100% true that is.
16 minutes ago, Bonkers said:I'm gonna be honest
Around the entire league Trae is not well liked. Not that he has to be of course, I don't want some buddy buddy type shit. But I mean to the point where good players probably don't wanna come play with him.
He is seen as very cocky and arrogant. It hurts him with officials for sure and with the older players.
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8 minutes ago, sturt said:
Right. I get that. But my counter would be that anything that didn't get done before the draft is less likely to get done after the draft simply because... what's changed... is that that #16 pick drove off the lot, and it's now depreciated like any car you drive off the lot.
So, of course, there could be some trade made by some other team involving a player SAS was counting on being able to acquire, or same with us... thus affecting one side or the other's tipping point and openness to including or excluding some asset.
But that's impossible to predict, and so there's no reason to believe that would happen.
Same exact thing can be said for free agency, of course... plausible, yes, but for now, there's no reason to think it's more likely than unlikely.
(Am I missing something?)
Most teams do a reassessment the day after the draft and see who gets waived in the coming days.
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To @Mikey's point. I do feel deflated today. Griffin is a good get but there were no popcorn moments last night.
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14 minutes ago, sturt said:
Um. Why though? What would change on either side of the equation?
See Below:
The below link for the NBA stays active year to year. Consider these dates:
https://www.nba.com/key-dates
2022-23 Key Dates
- April 10: Regular Season ends
- April 12-15: NBA Play-In Tournament
- April 11: Rosters set for NBA Playoffs 2022 (3 p.m. ET)
- April 12-15: Play-In Tournament
- April 16: NBA Playoffs 2022 begin
- April 24: NBA Early Entry Eligibility Deadline (11:59 p.m. ET)
- May 2-3: Conference Semifinals begin (possible move up to April 30/May 1)
- May 16-22: NBA Draft Combine (Chicago)
- May 17: NBA Draft Lottery 2022 presented by State Farm
- May 17-18: Conference Finals begin (possible move up to May 15-16)
- June 2: NBA Finals 2022 Game 1
- June 5: NBA Finals 2022 Game 2
- June 8: NBA Finals 2022 Game 3
- June 10: NBA Finals 2022 Game 4
- June 13: NBA Finals 2022 Game 5 (If necessary)
- June 13: NBA Draft Early Entry Entrant Withdrawal Deadline (5 p.m. ET)
- June 16: NBA Finals 2022 Game 6 (If necessary)
UPCOMING IN 2022-23
- June 23, 2022: NBA Draft 2022 presented by State Farm
- July 2-3: California Classic (San Francisco – Lakers, Heat, Kings, Warriors)
- July 5-7: Salt Lake City Summer League (Grizzlies, Thunder, 76ers, Jazz)
- July 7-17: NBA Summer League (Las Vegas)
- Sept. 30 & Oct. 2: Warriors, Wizards to play in NBA Japan Games 2022 Presented by Rakuten
- Oct. 6 & Oct. 8: Milwaukee Bucks, Atlanta Hawks to play in Abu Dhabi Games 2022
Now you can also look at this site but we're waiting on it to be updated. https://cbabreakdown.com/key-dates
These will give the dates related to salary cap/Moratorium/etc
Removing the dates I don't know.
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July 1 — Beginning of upcoming salary cap year’s moratorium period
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July 2— Start of salary cap year
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July 8 — Teams may sign free agents to contracts
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July 7-17 — Summer league
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— Waived player’s protected compensation for the upcoming season can no longer be stretched for salary cap purposes
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— First date players may report to their teams if the team is participating in preseason games outside of North America (games in China, India and China)
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— Training camp opens for teams participating in preseason outside of North America
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— First date all other veteran players may report to their teams
You can consider these dates as gateways. For example, Jun 29th is the last day for making a decision on Gallo. Our cap situation changes based on that decision. Last night's draft, the moves made, changes the cap situation for teams and can change their needs going forward.
So with the JC thing, I believe (I don't know) they would like to resolve JC's team status before July 2 which means July 1.
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The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)
in Homecourt
Posted
I've been planning a secret pair up with Tommy Snikers out of Chicago. He's a 4 tool NBA fan who can eat hot wings with drooling, follows Woj and Stein, has solid Meme game and went 34th in Stephen A's fantasy league. Sometimes you have to let a player go to build a championship roster.