thecampster

You aren't wrong. This is why a limited number of teams see JC better than what he is...most see him similar to what he's paid, a few don't value him and that's the number reason....the players around him. This is why players like Lebron or other true superstars are so rare. He fits pretty much everywhere with only small variances based on what's around him. Most players in the NBA have fit issues on the wrong team.

Actually the fit is with Capela. Because Capela is no threat outside of 5 feet, his man can cheat whenever JC posts and can ignore Clint if he drifts from the basket to give JC room to work. A stretch 5 would pull the center away allowing JC's faceup/post game to be useful.

Jake Fischer on John Collins synopsis. Atlanta would like to move him this offseason. They like John but defense is his shortcoming and doesn't justify his contract fit with Atlanta because he isn't offensively dominant. This is in like with what I was saying that they feel John is a better fit next to stretch 5 where he has room to work. Fischer mentioned Portland, Indiana and San Antonio as possible fits but concedes there are others. He admits the feeling around the league with Collins is team fit is key.

Let me give you this stat. PER at C - Gobert 2017-18 - Gobert 24.4 , Opp 18.9 . +5.5 PER 2018-19 - Gobert 30.2, Opp 19.8. + 10.5 PER 2019-20 - Gobert 26.5, Opp 20.2 + 6.2 PER 2020-21 - Gobert 29.6, Opp 16.9. +12.7 PER 2021-22 - Gobert 31.1, Opp 19.4. +11.7 PER Avg Gobert 28.32, Opp 19.04. +9.28 PER @ C - Capela 2017-18 - Capela 28.8 , Opp 23.3 . +5.5 PER 2018-19 - Capela 29.2, Opp 20.4. + 8.8 PER 2019-20 - Capela 24.5, Opp 19.2 + 5.3 PER 2020-21 - Capela 30.1, Opp 20.8. +9.3 PER 2021-22 - Capela 26.2, Opp 22.2. +4 PER Avg Capela - 27.76, Opp 21.18. +6.58 Gobert vs Capela +2.7 Gobert. Okay so I know this is PER but PER has some advantages. It can show dominance especially over long periods and remember Gobert's numbers are a little skewed by that 2017 season. PER over time shows that Gobert is the better individual player vs other centers (one of our weaknesses). But his "impact" is shown in the previous post. Defensively the Jazz were 14 ppg worse over a very short sample. If we use the entire last season's on vs off. Gobert on court the Jazz were 1 point better offensively per 48 minutes than off. But they were 7 points better per 48 defensively with him on the floor. With Capela on the floor, the Hawks were 4.5 pts per 48 better offensively but only 0.7 points worse defensively. The impact of Gobert defensively is not something that shows up in stats. Hawks with Capela off the floor defensively 115.4. Utah with Gobert off the floor defensively, 115.5. These are very similar defensive squads. Only a .1 point difference Hawks with Capela on the floor defensively 116.1. Utah with Gobert on the floor defensively, 108.5. A 7.6 point difference. Think of how many games the Hawks lost in the last 5 minutes last year. Think of how many games were decided by 7 points or less. That's why you pay him. So you can challenge for a Number 1 seed (10 wins, 1 of them vs the Heat and the Hawks are the 1 seed), get an easy road, sweep a playoff series, get rest and be healthier with each series. That's why he's worth it. The Hawks lost 14 games last year by 8 or less points. If Gobert is the difference in 11 of them, you are the #1 seed. Yes his defensive worth is that much, even vs Capela.

Gobert is infinitely greater than his personal "stats". https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/utah-jazz-record-without-rudy-gobert-career#:~:text=The Utah Jazz have a,without Rudy Gobert all-time. The Utah Jazz have a record of 45-62 without Rudy Gobert all-time. The Jazz's defensive rating without Gobert this season is 115.3, but with him, their rating is 108.6. An almost 7-point drop without him. Consider this from Reddit:

With an average career of about 7 years.

To be fair, each NBA team has people that assist players with that in each local market. A lot of the player live in the same community (or close by), kids go to the same schools (usually private). I hate it for the players but I really hate it for the families. The kids didn't sign up for 6 schools in 7 years just because their dad was born tall. Or the wives always being the new wife in town with a preselected small group of friends (players wives tend to all know each other on teams). It really is a different life for the families. Are they rich? Sure! But they are people regardless.

So with a lull in the conversation I'll restate something I've said before. I take no pleasure in the whole trade/free agency/waiver game. In my head, it treats players like chattel and I've never been okay with I sign a contract with Philly but you can force me to move to Utah or not get paid any more. I really hate that aspect of the NBA.

Again, don't beat yourself up over this nuance. I often discuss things thinking everyone knows what's going on in my head and leave out valuable info or well...forget myself.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2022/06/why-non-guaranteed-contracts-arent-ideal-trade-chips.html This article does a terrible job of explaining it but is much more vested than I am at this moment in revisiting this point (previously beaten into the ground). IE, trade for $17 million in salary for $5 mil doesn't work for salary matching (except with cap negative teams this year) but if they waive him, the $17 mil becomes the guaranteed number. IE, if they then waive Gallo, they are waiving and absorbing what they sent out to us in trade.

Trading him now fully guarantees his salary. Only we can cash in the $5 mil waive clause.

You are missing that Gallo is about a $9 mil/year player at this point in his career. Nobody is just going to spend their $20 million cap space on Gallo and walk away yelling woo hoo!!! We got the Italian!

And you wonder why I was saying I wanted to go low profile until June 15th or later. The weeds get deep this far off the reservation.

I can get behind this as a starting point. Then post moratorium see what we can then spin for alternate resources, delay consummation of the deal beyond the 30 days.

Not to nitpick and I'm a fan of what Huerter brings but I'm starting THJ in this lineup and I'm not cutting Moose for a 2nd round pick. Muscala is not a good rotational player but he is a very valuable 10th-12th man type and very valuable in need to stretch the floor situations. If I can put him on a roster for $3.5 million as an emergency 4/5....absolutely. Not really into playing this game and I haven't digested salaries or probabilities in this alt universe but THJ starts over Kevin and Moose gets that last roster spot.

Or if you want someone else's gigantic contract that they don't want (a Westbrook/Wall type of a contract) you could move Gallo + 1 higher priced player for matching and get back that gigantic contract + a draft pick. But that's it. That's what you can reasonably do with Gallo. It has to be either someone some team needs to get rid of on a longer term that's willing to give us a high pick to take or the 4 for 1 swap that lets us fill out roster slots on the cheap.

We won't find such a deal but Gallo + 16 for 4 players that add up to < $20 million/year would be the ideal scenario. 2 vets, 2 young players, all of who could play in a pinch. If you're looking for Gallo trades, those are the only ones you'll find. Maybe find a diamond in the rough season in there.

Anyone, myself, @JayBirdHawk, @sturt or any other wanna be cap expert on this site that feels they've 100% got a handle on the CBA and its rules 100% of the time is more delusional than a Kings fan on draft night. Don't beat yourself up. These rules are made to stop cheating. Simple trade rules are way easier to circumvent.

I feel I've explained this enough but I guess not after reading last night's threads. If you trade Gallo for similar financial value, you lock the Hawks in at above the LT and severely limit any signings we can do in the offseason. You also greatly restrict your options in sign n trade and every team in the league will know they're holding your fuzzy dangling bits in the fire for trades. Please stop with the trading Gallo. If you're trading for Jeremy Grant, you have to find a trade partner willing to take back JC. Please have fun and speculate as much as the next person but if Travis sends out Gallo (instead of releasing him or holding him) and takes back similar salary, I'll jump on the Travis sucks wagon with the rest of the negative Nancy train. With Gallo's salary and the 16th pick, we are 6 million over the Luxury tax, at the apron and still 5 players short of a full roster. Trading for Grant frees up $4 mil off that number (when 16 is included) but really doesn't do anything for us financially and leaves us 6 players short.

GSW sent a pick, Nets sent 2 other players. Although media talked about it as one deal, I believe it was 2 simultaneous deals....

Which also means you're going to be adding some draft assets.

You aren't going to like this but they need a center back. So you're looking at something like OO and Hunter for Ayton.

and I'm out of Smurfs to give!!!