thecampster

When Defense becomes offense!!!

risk taking vs help and its affect on others

So the throw in of JJ is fan generated off of the actual rumor which was always Capela + player + 1 pick. The Jazz like both Hunter and Huerter. Of the 2, there is actually a preference of Huerter because of the locked in salary but if a similar or even slightly higher salary was locked in for Hunter they could easily go both ways. They like Hunter more, but with the caveat that a break out season before his new contract could price them out of a resign.

Can an advanced stat hound round up defensive splits on Trae floor time with Huerter at the 2 vs Bogi at the 2. I'm wondering how much of Trae's bad D is related to floor personnel.

PLAYER TEAM AGE HEIGHT WEIGHT Clint Capela ATL 27 6'10 256 Danilo Gallinari ATL 33 6'10 236 Gorgui Dieng ATL 32 6'10 248 John Collins ATL 24 6'9 226 De'Andre Hunter ATL 24 6'8 221 Jalen Johnson ATL 20 6'8 219 Onyeka Okongwu ATL 21 6'8 240 Kevin Huerter ATL 23 6'7 198 Kevin Knox II ATL 22 6'7 215 Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot ATL 27 6'7 215 Bogdan Bogdanovic ATL 29 6'6 225 Delon Wright ATL 30 6'5 185 Skylar Mays ATL 24 6'4 205 Trae Young ATL 23 6'1 164 The argument can be made that Jalen has the better potential frame but we're really nitpicking.

The both have good footwork and touch around the basket. There are 2 facets of the game where the game comes easier for JJ, the rest are currently advantage Collins. Those 2 areas are: 1) JJ has much better handles + drive to the basket. Especially once around the basket, he is very smooth in going either side. JJ can face up his man and take him off the dribble and/or play back to the basket. In the back to the basket game, Collins is suspect to turnovers, pokeaways. He is deliberate with the basketball. Better than most PF, but JJ, if he plays PF has SF handles. 2) Rebounds come very easy to JJ. I think at this point Collins is a better rebounder but JJ's nose for the basketball, his ability to sense the carom is better. JJ has some instincts that are hard to teach, rare to see. Collins works very hard to rebound and helps others rebound by boxing out. If JJ put in that kind of work, he'd be a rebound machine based on his instincts. Watch some video of him playing when the ball isn't in his hand. When the shot goes up, he's headed toward one side of the rim and gets a lot of long rebound, floater rebounds. If anything, he's the Yin to JC's Yang. The criticism of Collins being too small to play PF is legitimate in context. He lacks that muscular bulk needed to bang. Right now he's trying to bang, being asked to bang. In his first few years in the league, he relied more on instincts and athleticism. His age means lack of old man weight....that'll come but it takes till like 26-28 for that chest to round out and it takes a toll on your legs. This is why right now he's a better fit next to a bulky, brawling, defensive center. Clint is a good defensive center but he's not an intimidator. There is a difference. JC's inability to bang exposes Clint's flaws (however slight).

Okay, this just made my morning. Good stuff!!!

JJ was getting coaching every day but what he lacked (game feel) was very hard to teach in practice sessions. I do know they had practice games/sessions where he ran a lot of 3 vs 3, 5 v 5 where the opposing team was supposed to make him switch, recognize sets from the 3/4/5 positions. But realize there is a difference between practice players and NBA real game time. He made great strides but it can't replace minutes of NBA action and scrub time doesn't count.

FYI with salaries going up and the player pool "meh", 16 has less value this year than in previous years. The salary for #16 is about the same as a 10 year vet minimum which for a contender is a much better spend. So there's limited market for it.

https://sports.yahoo.com/exploring-the-trade-market-for-utah-jazz-stars-donovan-mitchell-and-rudy-gobert-185435614.html " The Rudy Gobert trade market Atlanta Hawks • Trade offer: Clint Capela, Kevin Huerter and a first-round draft pick • Jazz rationale: The downgrade from Gobert to Capela is worth acquiring Huerter — a worthy Joe Ingles replacement with a higher ceiling — and another first-round pick to go hunting for additional upgrades. • Hawks rationale: Trae Young needs as much defensive help as he can get." As I've said numerous times, Huerter is highly valued around the league. He is our most valuable 2nd piece to a trade. Other teams love him. His extension last year could be our savior in building a real contender. Others mentioned: Dallas Mavericks Detroit Pistons Golden State Warriors Los Angeles Clippers Memphis Grizzlies Portland Trail Blazers Washington Wizards " The Donovan Mitchell trade market Hawks not mentioned. Teams mentioned Boston Celtics Indiana Pacers Miami Heat New Orleans Pelicans. New York Knicks San Antonio Spurs Sacramento Kings Again, you can read the article here: https://sports.yahoo.com/exploring-the-trade-market-for-utah-jazz-stars-donovan-mitchell-and-rudy-gobert-185435614.html From the article: "Ben Rohrbach is a staff writer for Yahoo Sports. Have a tip? Email him at rohrbach_ben@yahoo.com or follow him on Twitter! Follow @brohrbach" I'm highlighting this part because I want to explain why I'm accepting this article at face value. There are different types of writers out there, most have an agenda. This guy is not a specific team focused guy but an ear to the ground type of a writer. His reputation matters so he doesn't just put junk out there for clicks. I stated before that writers talk to sources no different than a board insider might talk to, they just are under release dates which some times slow the flow of news. In Ben's case, he's a broad reach writer so he'll hold things until he has enough to publish. As you can see, his trade proposal her is exactly what the ears to the ground here heard, Gobert, for Capela, 1 player, 1 pick. In this case he used Huerter and if so, there is a reason. He either never got the details and picked one or he got details / leaks up front of what it would take to get a certain player from the org with the wanted player (Utah). IMHO, this was leaked from inside Utah to gauge fan interest.

Thanks

The benefit to almost every center discussed is their ability to operate outside the paint. Ayton adds the benefit of a 10-12 footer that Clint does not have. In that one area alone he helps JC. JC does not have a good post up game. Its average at best. He requires some space to work. Clint has to be within 5 feet of the basket to be effective with the ball in his hand. Any pass to Clint outside 5 feet is pointless unless he's already moving toward the basket. Ayton provides Collins a bit of space to avoid the duck down, big help while in the post. Ayton > Clint offensively, minor (very minor) help to Collins offensively.

I'm not ignoring it, I just know #16 is on the table right now and I'm kind of in wait and see mode waiting on what gets done with Gallo. Also, they may decide that getting rid of their core is a better idea than letting Ayton walk. IMHO its too early to game plan. My OP was a compilation of everything we've heard and the farther from that conversation we get, the less in the know I become. I'll tell you that @NBASupes has been unusually quiet on these matters and has stated his well is currently dry. This is a really good sign that the market is taking little direction and its probably too early to speculate on what is possible. I'd prefer to avoid discussion of Phoenix hypotheticals altogether until their playoff run ends.

You have. Which is why its on the table and why you just don't "pay the man" every time your favorite player wants the max. Last years John Collins salary by giving him $23.5 million instead of $29 isn't a $5.5 million savings. If we go deep into the LT as well....that $5.5 million could potentially become a $30 million savings. @AHF we really need a way to sticky that calculator. It just saved me 10 minutes of calculations.

What I want you to do is look at the chart and see how as you go farther and farther above the tax line, the amount of tax paid accelerates. If they were only $10 million over the line, their tax would be reasonable at $25.25 million. Its that next $15 million that costs them the other $50 mil in tax. So how does a Capela trade fix it? Lets take Capela, Dre, #16. The #16 pick will make about $2.9 million. Capela about $19 million (incentives), Dre a bit less than $10 million. Their 3 salaries add up to about $31.9 million. But they need 2 less minimum salaries saving $4.6 million. That $4.6 million savings is against the 5th line of the graph saving $21.85 million in tax and $4.6 million in salary. A savings of $25 million and arguably a better team with Dre.

Its an impossible task because the rest of the roster isn't set. But I have 3 minutes to get close. The LT is going to be around $149 million. Lets use that number for right now. If they sign Ayton to $30.5 to start (up to $159.8) and they don't trade anyone and they fill out their roster (5 slots) with vet minimums (avg 2.3 mil) we get a salary around 171.3 million. IMHO this is a conservative estimate. That gives us a Luxury Tax around $75.9 million. See below. https://public.tableau.com/views/NBASalaryTaxCalculator/Dashboard1?%3Aembed=y&%3AshowVizHome=no&%3Adisplay_count=y&%3Adisplay_static_image=y&%3AbootstrapWhenNotified=true

Well that's the rub isn't it. In order to move him you need 1 of 3 scenarios. Scenario 1 is you move him for 3 salaries that add up to the matching salary to enable them to spread out the salary hit among players. In order to do that, you'll need a team like Atlanta with 3 salaries around $10 mil each (average). Clint, OO, JJ fits that bill (a deal I would not do). Scenario 2, you move him for multiple salaries in a none salary matching move to get much lower. In order to do that you need a team under the cap (like OKC) with cheap assets you might want (like OKC). Scenario 3, you move him in an equal value deal for a better fit at similar value....this one is really hard to find but I can think of a few very unlikely scenarios. Typically scenarios 1 and 2 don't exist which is the reason you don't find up and comers being moved. But this season we have both. The opportunity and motivation exists. Its really a matter of compensation.

The anatomy of a trade like this doesn't require us sending back equal value to Phoenix. It just requires us sending out equal value some where because we will also be the team above the LT after this. Imagine a scenario where a few young players (say OO + someone from OKC) went to Phoenix to greatly lower their tax situation and Clint landed in OKC. You could validate the requirements of the trade provisions. The only real stipulation here is Phoenix can't package him, but other pieces could move in a complicated deal. It is really possible to keep Phoenix competitive while lowering their potential salary ceiling. The easy answer here is to just say "nope, nope, nope, nope" but there are numerous possibilities due to the large salaries and a few teams who will operate under the cap come July that need to get better.

the quote you referenced "If Ben plays and they get a good attitude out of Kyrie/Drummond, I don't care their seed. They are now the best team in the East. They are so freaking big now. So long." That's a far stretch from guaranteeing a championship. I expect my apology in bitcoin!!!

I believe I qualified it as "if he plays" and "this would make the Nets the most dangerous team". I'm not big on guarantees. Too many floating parts of anything.

I didn't make the decision, I just reported it

I forgot Clint's bonuses...bump that by 1.5 mil....added wrong column.

9 players under contract at $146.7 million. Without Gallo $130.2. Player Option Club Option Non-Guaranteed Estimate PLAYER (9) POS. BASE SALARY LIKELY INCENT. UNLIKELY INCENT. TRADE BONUS CAP FIGURE CAP % CASH REMAINING (GUARANTEED) NOTES Trae Young PG $30,500,000 - - - $30,500,000 14.77 $176,900,000 ($176,900,000) Rk Extension / Bird John Collins PF $23,500,000 - - - $23,500,000 11.38 $102,000,000 ($102,000,000) Free Agent / Bird Danilo Gallinari PF $21,450,000 - - - $21,450,000 10.39 $21,450,000 ($5,000,000) Acquired via S&T G'teed: $5,000,000 Clint Capela C $18,206,897 $1,500,000 $500,000 - $19,706,897 9.55 $65,588,177 ($61,088,177) Acquired via Trade Bogdan Bogdanovic SG $18,000,000 - - - $18,000,000 8.72 $36,000,000 ($36,000,000) Free Agent / Space Kevin Huerter SG $14,508,929 - - - $14,508,929 7.03 $65,000,000 ($65,000,000) Rk Extension / Bird De'Andre Hunter SF $9,835,881 - - - $9,835,881 4.76 $9,835,881 ($9,835,881) Drafted / Rookie Scale Onyeka Okongwu PF $6,395,160 - - - $6,395,160 3.10 $14,504,223 ($6,395,160) Drafted / Rookie Scale Jalen Johnson SF $2,792,640 - - - $2,792,640 1.35 $10,228,905 ($2,792,640) Drafted / Rookie Scale

Can't include another Phoenix player in a SNT and yes they would allow it.