thecampster

No, you have to say duckbutt "3 times" while staring in the mirror and then Diesel appears with a signed Chris Paul rookie card to steal your soul.

https://www.sportstalkatl.com/rumor-hawks-offered-cam-reddish-and-more-to-the-76ers-and-ben-simmons/ The tweets are now being reported on www.sportstalkatl.com and you guys wonder why we're coy?

https://towardsdatascience.com/the-asset-of-age-e4b45599ea94 https://www.basketballnews.com/stories/why-big-men-take-more-time-to-develop-in-the-nba-than-guards-and-wings (courtesy of RandomFan). http://www.82games.com/wong1.htm

Nobody but you is having a problem understanding that generalities have exceptions. Stop it. Just stop it. You are going to keep pushing because you love to win. There is nothing to win here. Just stop it. All generalities have exceptions but as a rule, size plays a significant role in development timeline. This isn't my assertion but generally accepted principal. If you disagree, I suggest you take it up with development staffs of pretty much every NBA team. But quit trying to play coy like you don't know what you're doing. You are much smarter than that.

You are one more troll movement away from a personal ignore list. You already drove me off the politics forum with this nonsense. Do you want me to leave the board permanently?

Please stop! Nobody is siding with you on this. No one sees any reason for the line of inquiry. You are effectively arguing with yourself and trying to draw others in to it.

Individual 1 offs does not make your point. FYI, MJ multiple years of college experience when he came up. Although he wasn't bad when he first came up, he was a much better player year 3 than 1. I really think you're missing something important. There are over 450 players in the NBA this year. There have been thousands through the league over the last 30 years. I'm making a generalization that is widely accepted and would be provable with tons of research that I am not willing to go through for you. There are many hills in the world. Choose the one you want to die on carefully. That this is the thing you want to argue about says more about you than the arguments you make. I mean Randomfan posted a great article about it in the middle of this exchange. If you want to argue the assertions further, I recommend you write the authors.

Look Shaq was amazing because he's a flipping Nephilim, not because "centers progress faster". He's a 1 off. We all know that. Nash played in an era when everyone (especially point guards) had to earn their way on to the floor. It was a very different game then and you know that. I know you know that. That's like pointing to Lebron James and saying all small forwards become power forwards one day or pointing to Spud Webb and saying short players have the best chance at winning the dunk contest. You have a tendency and its to always try to find things people say, look for the exception and point to it as fact. Of course there are exceptions. Sports would be boring without them. But they are not the rule, they are not the commonality. But this doesn't change the facts which are that by nature smaller players tend to be quicker, more agile and big men tend to take longer to grow into their bodies. Just because you can point to 1 or 2 examples where sheer size overcame tendencies does not make what I or anyone else on the subject says wrong. The 1 off is one of the laziest arguments ever presented. When I or anyone says, "cheeseburgers taste good" we are not saying that every cheeseburger ever made is as good as every cheeseburger ever eaten. Because of course one could say, "what about tofu burgers" or "what about expiring meat" or "low fat content meat vs high fat content", "grilled vs fried vs broiled", "spices or no". I am sure that somewhere in the universe there was a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, the best pbnj ever made that tasted better than an expired tofu burger with a multigrain moldy bun. I'm happy to extend you that argument but in general, when given a choice between a burger and a pbnj, most people would agree there is no beating a burger.....but Camp, vegetarians and vegans. But Camp, India. But Camp spicy beef flavored peanut butter with imported Italian raspberry/grape preserves. Yes, I'll allow 1 offs. Nothing I or anyone else says should ever be assumed to mean that all unicorns fart rainbows. I'm sure there's 1 who actually farts anti-matter.

ah the old outlier argument to sound like the smart guy in the room...good one

Hey someone else said it so I can comment on it. The above bolded I can confirm I heard as well. So let me talk about the above bolded. Now that someone else has stated it, I'm comfortable talking about it. Cam was never in serious danger of being dealt unless Philly accepted Atlanta's original offer which included a 3 way with Minny. Out from Atlanta was Cam/Gallo potential pick. Gallo would have ended up in Minny. Minny would have offered up the rest of the players to Philly. Memphis' deal with Minny quashed any possibility of it yesterday. Philly would have had to send a pick + players to Philly to which Philly wasn't really interested in all of the players. But yes your buddies ears heard it partly right. The Cam, Hunter, Okongwu he heard wasn't real and couldn't be because of the cap difference. But I could see how he might suggest it. Philly wanted other players but we didn't have a package for them and it was a 3 team deal scenario. Its why all the Gallo rumors pre draft. It was a market test for Minny seeing if it was worth parting with a draft asset. The week of the draft I pointed out the Cam/Indy rumors were 100% garbage...we both knew at that time. I hadn't heard the LAL or Cleveland serious connection for Simmons but not saying its not true. Heard the others though. Yes Atlanta tried to move up for 9, 11,13, 16. All were targeting Sengun. I had not heard Primo as a target. They had Sengun in the 8-18 window for where he could go. Atlanta wanted to hang on to 20 through the process. They felt strongly one of Sengun, another big or JJ would fall to 20 and were willing to wait that out. The move up was purely current assets and/or future assets. Cooper was nearly not a Hawk as 48 was a part of any move up package.

and FYI for more perspective on Jalen's age and why it matters. Cam was 3 months, 17 days older than Jalen this year when drafted. Jalen is really young. Shariffe Cooper is a full 6 months older than JJ. Let that sink in.

The bigger the player, the longer they take to reach their potential (top 10/15% of their potential). Centers take longest (see Jokic). Using Joel Embiid as an example, he came out at 21-22. He didn't really start to feel his potential until the 2018 season when he busted out for 27 ppg/13rpg. Trae on the other hand was Jalen's age when he came out and took 6 months to become a starter. By 21-22 he was leading his team to the ECF. You gotta be patient with bigger players. They usually are still growing and filling out. Their needs are different than a PG/SG. Jalen turns 20 on December 18 of this year. For comparison, Trae turned 20 on Sept 18th 3 years ago. He was exactly 3 months older than Jalen during summer league and we all know how young we thought he was. JC was 6 days younger than Trae on his draft night. It took JC until a few weeks into his second year to start feeling it (aged 21) and wasn't "good" until year 3 (age 22). Deandre Hunter is 1 year, 9 months older than Reddish but they were drafted the same night. Its showed. But most people would take playoff Cam over first 3 months in the league Deandre any day. Having Cam and JJ ranked higher in this list than Hunter is probably on point, but to limit both to not being a potential MVP (of at least the playoffs) is limiting them. As Cam, JJ, JC, Hunter, OO all mature as players, the load on Trae will diminish. Trae's assist/defense numbers will go up naturally as the other players age, but one of them (my bet is either Cam/JJ) will on day be outscoring him. They are just that much more athletic than everyone else on the floor. One of them is bound to "get it". They're are physical phreaks and both have shoulders that belie their weight. They are going to grow in to those shoulders one day and be a night mare cover for lighter players. Just looking at their physical frames, my bets are on Cam, JJ. We are a year ish away on Cam taking off. Probably 2 on JJ.

He is one of the youngest players in Summer League. There are a total of 39 of the 738 players age 20 or younger. He has time/room to grow. I wouldn't be surprised with his hand size if he grew 2 more inches and by age 25 weighed 225-235. I'm not on the "greatest player of all time" train but I do think he is one of the best 3 prospects in this draft.

A typical NBA starter is on the floor for 60 of his teams' possessions. That's 120 trips up and down the floor. That's a lot of reps on his knees at his size.

Interesting you left Clint off the list.

I think its a bit early in the process for gentlemen bets don't you think? https://www.stopproblemgambling.com/

Offensively with JJ there will be no cheating off your man to double Trae. With Snell, it was all about playing angles to deny the pass to the corner. With JJ the defense would have to work to deny him.

What I will say is I think he'll be better offensively with the vets than in summer league. I saw 3 or 4 passes a game where either his man just flat wasn't ready for the pass or JJ expected his man to come to the ball / make a cut and these bush league, flat footed summer leaguers get caught watching. You can tell how good offensively JJ is when you see his teammates just watching him when moving. They're spectators in awe they are on the same floor (I played a little semipro baseball and realized how mortal I was when playing with a double A guy. I had that same spectator look often). 1/2 of his turnovers are people just not recognizing plays he's making for them. The defenders intercepting are almost always 2nd year guys who are picking the pass off late but recognizing. That behind the back top of the key pickoff he just expected his guy to run middle at the basket and he floated off toward the corner watching. I'd have been ticked. If that's Gallo, Hunter, Cam, JC, its a down the middle dunk. Looked terrible from JJ but a real player would have been going right up the middle with that and been on SC.

FYI, I have been trying to get info on the Hawks developmental plans with JJ to which there has been little. This isn't abnormal. There are 6+ preseason games to get through and a camp. Other teams are evaluating their rosters right now and must like the Bledsoe trade, a few more shoes could fall before training camp. What I can say is that JJ is farther along offensively than the Hawks anticipated. He also needs more work defensively than hoped. They are hoping that voluntary work with vets, trainers, etc is going to help him. When vets play pickup at the practice facility, they run a lot of the same plays you'll see at practice. This is one of the things that helped Kevin so much. He would play a lot of defense in these pickup and practice scenarios to sharpen his footwork. In JJ's case, it isn't footwork, or even strength that's a problem (the kid has a serious core and when he puts on weight is going to be terrifying) but its awareness on pro sets. He really struggled so far in summer league with switching, staying with his man off ball and even recognizing which man is his. 1v1 iso he's pretty good considering he's 19. But picks, curls, baseline cuts are killing him. Its to be expected when he hasn't played much ball above the high school level but its going to take some work. He'd look like a baby octopus if he was defending a JC/Trae pick n roll. Its going to be baptism by fire and I'm not sure G-League is going to fix it. He needs to be in the gym with vets every day between now and opening night playing defense.

For those that have short memories. Hawks 2019 Summer league https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Atlanta-Hawks/1/Rosters/Summer_League/2019 Player GP MIN PTS REB AST STL BLK TOV Bruno Fernando 3 26.8 4.3 3.7 1.0 1.3 3.3 1.0 Omari Spellman 2 25.6 12.0 8.0 0.5 0.0 3.0 3.0 De'Andre Hunter 1 20.7 6.0 3.0 1.0 0.0 1.0 4.0 Hawk 2016 Summer League Player GP MIN PTS REB AST STL BLK TOV Taurean Prince 3 26.4 13.7 6.0 1.7 3.0 0.7 3.3 DeAndre' Bembry 5 26.8 10.4 5.0 3.8 1.6 0.2 2.0

Research it. His team wanted to shut him down for the last 3 weeks of the season. He spoke with Coach K and it was a mutual agreement he could just shut all the way down and get ready for the draft. Its been litigated. If you had the chance to make $2 million dollars last year but you'd have to leave your mother and father for 3 months to do it, you'd be gone before your mother's first tear hit the floor. Be honest with yourself.

My interest and research has greatly outpaced my investment, but since I have the solar setup, the electricity part of it is pretty much free. In the last 3 months with a lower top tier card I've been able to mine about $300 in crypto + self investing. I'm more interested in it as a mechanism right now than an investment. My burden, I just like seeing how things work in the background but am always slow to capitalize. Yah if you've been in since 2015, then the last 2 years would have been very good to you if you stayed in. Live and learn!

Well he is 4 years younger with Dre having 2 pro years, 2 college years and 1 redshirt year on him over his 13 games at Duke. Its hard to compare them.

Hmm...let me think on that.