thecampster

This is a good question but all we have to look at right now is next year. Let 2023 take care of itself. Next year is Trae/Huerter and we already know Trae's number. His starting max deal is almost exactly $20 million more than he's making this year. Gallo's salary is almost exactly 20 million. Gallo being traded this year or next fixes this. Delon Wright's money comes off next year as well and the difference between Kev's salary this year and next (4 this, 13 next) is pretty much Delon's salary. This is not accounting for serious increase in the cap next year. Basically Kev and Trae are accounted for by trading Gallo, not renewing Wright. The following year, Hunter's previous salary will be almost $10 million so his jump and Cam's (<$6 mil final year) are partially taken care of by the increases in the cap and player contacts ending. Bogi has a player option that year and will most likely opt out. Capela's contract ends that year. Its safe to assume Cam/Huerter takes over the starting role for Bogi and our youngins are stepping up their game at that point (Mays/Cooper, next year's pick, etc). Bogi is most likely gone and his salary alone will make up most of the increases due Hunter/Cam. Capela is the wild card there and it depends if his value increases or decreases. You also have to remember there are injury concerns, personal concerns that could throw a wrench into all of this. But if the vet contracts fall off at the appropriate time and our guys step up as they mature, we can afford all 5 without issue. Its after that things get hairy.

Lets not get into the weeds on the difference between the Threshold and Tax payments. We're fine if we use it all either way. Multi year only hurts when you get 20 mil+ over. Amount over tax threshold Standard tax per excess dollar Repeat offender tax per excess dollar $5 million to $9,999,999 $1.75 $2.75 $10 million to $14,999,999 $2.50 $3.50 $15 million to $19,999,999 $3.25 $4.25 Over $20 million $3.75 + $0.50 per $5 million $4.75 + $0.50 per $5 million See the bolded. Below 10 million its a few million bucks. Over 20 million you're spending $5 for every $1 of salary in tax with repeater really adding up and cutting into profits (if any).

If the Mays deal is a 2 way and the Cooper deal is a 2 way then yes, there would be a roster spot and yes they could sign anyone for the full 5.9 mil and then Lou Will for the vet minimum.

Let's pencil John in at a flat 25 mil per season. We'll adjust once we know the salary structure on his deal. Signed/offered John Collins $25,000,000 Danilo Gallinari $20,475,000 Bogdan Bogdanovic $18,000,000 Clint Capela $17,103,448 Delon Wright $8,526,316 Trae Young $8,326,471 De'Andre Hunter $7,775,400 Onyeka Okongwu $6,104,280 Cam Reddish $4,670,160 Kevin Huerter $4,253,357 Gorgui Dieng $4,000,000 Jalen Johnson $2,659,680 Solomon Hill $1,669,178 Skylar Mays $1,489,065 Total (14 under contract): $5.9 MLE left. $130,052,355 Holds Lou Williams $15,200,000 Unsigned/waiting Shariffe Cooper

I haven't gotten an answer. My guess is his phone is on fire right now. Actual view from his web cam.

Yah and I'm not arguing. I've been about as vested in this offseason as any in the past 5 years. Mucho respect for you and I think we're hung up on the semantics of actual cap vs practical cap. 100% understand where you're coming from. Probably a better discussion for off board than on.

We are only over the cap in theory right now. With Snell elsewhere, all holds sent away including Lou but excluding JC, JC's hold was the thing pushing us over the cap. We were under without it, meaning if JC signed an offer sheet elsewhere and we didn't match, there was a method to offer a good contract, fit Gorgui in, then process the mins, then the rest of the MLE. Its why it didn't matter the order (as stated earlier) but for the purposes of being able to offer things, it technically mattered.

I mean you guy don't know me from Adam but this is exactly what I reported late last week. The guy who fed me this was 50/50 in past years (which is why I originally said the structure JC's team thought they could get was closer to 130 mil but that there was potential for the Hawks to get a hometown discount) and that I was 50% sure on the info. This year on the stuff he's fed me I could share and stuff I could only hint at, he's been almost 100% accurate. The original post on this: Saturday night. Guy hit on like 5 things on the nose. This was one of those.

But the contract can't be signed/official until the 6th at the earliest. There is difference to letting him shop. The hold is better for the books than the contract will be.

Okay, let me try stating something I gave to the board a few days ago a different way. No contracts have been signed yet. All of the agreed upon figures are just that, gentleman agreements at this point. JC can't sign anything until Aug 6th at the earliest. There is no onus on JC to sign anything or agree to anything. All of it is just monopoly money and not legally binding for 2 more days. As I stated before, JC has the Hawks offer and stated it would be there should he decide to take it. They have offered to keep the offer on the table and rather than negotiate, allow JC to go out and find his own deal. This was the best way for JC to determine he was getting the best offer on the table. The Hawks will most probably match any offer he gets and other teams know this. So the other teams are reticent to offer anything because once JC signs that offer sheet, all of that cap money for that other team is tied up until the Hawks match or decline. No team is going to tie up $25 million in cap space on a player they believe is ultimately going to be signed elsewhere. Currently, JC is costing the Hawks a smidge over $12 million in cap space hold that could be used on another player. Since the Hawks believe he is > 90% likely to resign with them, its better for them to continue to exist on JC's 12 million hold than his $22 million + salary for the purposes of signing 1 more player. Of all the Hawks off season deals, JC will be the last to sign because the hold is better than his contract. We are in no hurry to get the deal done. Should another team step up with a bigger deal, JC will get that contract and at this point would like that to be with the Hawks or another team he's comfortable with that gives him a shot at further playoff success. He is also looking at fit, coaching and local endorsement opportunities. That is the whole free agent experience I was mentioning. Feeling the love from other teams and knowing you have value. Nothing shady is going on. Both sides are vested partners in JC's success moving forward. The Hawks will not pull his offer and have given him time to come to grips with this being his best offer. If he agrees Friday or today there is no difference in when he signs. There is no rush.

That's a 21,500,000 starting salary for John, 28.3 mill last year if structured normally.

This

I mentioned this a few days ago. They've worked out numbers but they want JC to have the full free agency experience. That's what's going on right now. He's shopping himself, meeting with teams, being sold on things outside of money. He and the Hawks have that understanding.

IMHO this can only mean one thing. Nobody else wanted to take NY's money.

I can't source it but rest assured he's not getting the max. I'll stand by the $22.5 to $25 mil range I mentioned a few days ago which is weakly sourced.

Okay for poops and smirks, lets revisit that BAE discussion now so it makes sense. Salaries $105,052,235 mil. John max: $28,103,500. (he's not getting this so its moot but use it for the calculation). Total: $133.155,735 LT threshold: $136,606,000 (number to calculate BAE). BAE available $3,405,265. MLE available $5,500,000. If you used the BAE here to sign anyone, you are now hard capped. Use the MLE, you can sign someone without paying tax (kicks in at $142 mil) and still have the BAE available later if you clear room and want to sign someone waived at the deadline. Sign Lou Will to the vet min and you only have $1.7 mil in BAE available as your total salary goes up but the threshold stays the same.

Note: Unless we make another move. It doesn't matter what order these are processed since it was our own players. Dieng will require use of the MLE to sign at 4 million. Even if Lou is renounced we wouldn't have 4 million under the cap due to John's hold and the holds of the players we resigned. So we technically have vet min and 5.5 mil MLE left to spend outside of John.

Danilo Gallinari $ 20,475,000 Bogdan Bogdanovic $ 18,000,000 Clint Capela $ 17,103,448 Delon Wright $ 8,526,316 Trae Young $ 8,326,471 De'Andre Hunter $ 7,775,400 Onyeka Okongwu $ 6,104,280 Cam Reddish $ 4,670,160 Kevin Huerter $ 4,253,357 Jalen Johnson $ 2,659,680 Solomon Hill $ 1,669,178 Skylar Mays $ 1,489,065 Gorgui Dieng $4,000,000 Total (13 under contract): $105,052,355 Holds (why over cap) Projected Lou Williams $ 15,200,000 $ 1,669,178 John Collins $ 12,411,906

I just went through this privately with Stuart. We're into min vet deal/ MLE money for anyone not our own. But we can't answer that without the final numbers on JC and or if we keep Lou.

Okay let me explain this. The BAE is a last ditch salary effort. If there weren't rules, teams could apply the BAE first then use their MLE to exceed the cap later. Using the BAE establishes your hard cap for the year. Therefore, using the BAE wipes any remaining MLE...its considered used because you can't use it to push the salary higher.

For the purposes of calculating your BAE...absolutely.

I should have never mentioned this....If you use any of the MLE you can't renounce the rest. The full MLE will count against your cap. Salary + MLE amount subtracted from LT threshold is your BAE = $3.7 million or less depending on how close to the threshold you are. My assertion of only having $3 million is based on salaries so far. for the purposes of not hamstringing yourself with a hard cap for the year, you'd use all of the MLE before touching the BAE. Just say OKAY and don't mention the BAE again until we have 14 rostered, 2 two ways and are down to our last signing. Hemorrhoid's or crabs is my guess.

But we won't have the full amount available. Its math. It won't be usable until we exceed the cap which will take JC's contract to do. As long as the MLE is there, its a room thing. See below. "The bi-annual exception is available only to a limited number of clubs, even among those that didn’t use the exception during the previous season. Teams that create and use cap space forfeit the BAE, along with all but the smallest version of the mid-level (the room exception). Additionally, teams lose access to the bi-annual exception when they go over the “tax apron,” a figure approximately $6MM+ above the tax line. So, only teams over the cap and under the tax apron can use the BAE. If a team uses all or part of the bi-annual exception, it triggers a hard cap for that season. Clubs that sign a player using the BAE can later go under the cap, but can’t go over the tax apron at any time during the season once the contract is signed." See the bolded. Its why its used last.

The difference in salaries between the 3 players would be greater than 25% depending on how you work it out. I'm not sure it works without certain teams going through renouncing...etc. The Spurs (for example) have almost 100 million in contract holds. They really can't offer John that money and retain their players. They'd have to renounce about $60 million in free agents to technically sign someone. Similar but not as big with the Bulls. For those teams who can only SnT to get the player, it really isn't easy to force another team's hand. Only if they can completely fit the salary under their cap by only waiving the player/players they'd sign away in a trade can they really force another team's hand. The BAE is 3 mil not 4.

I'm thinking this is a 3 way trade with Gallo and Minny. Unless a legit star is brought back, I can't see Cam as being the trade bait. The only rumor I've heard involves Minny but they'll need a 3rd team to line up salaries.