Packfill Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Quote: we will still only have I very good perimeter shooter in the starting lineup. I just don't think teams will fear Smoove or Chillz from the perimeter and that means teams will simply double Al in the post and put their best perimeter defender on JJ. The problem is that despite their perimeter shooting, Loe and Delk are terrible players. Marvin and Salim are rookie unknowns - one a very raw forward and the other a second round rookie. You don't start those types of players over more proven, better all around talents like Childress and Smoove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packfill Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Quote: if lue ends up being our starting pg, then we are in trouble and bk made a mistake Agreed. We already know Lue is not starting material. I have my doubts about JJ as a starting point in the NBA, but he will have to play very badly to not still be better then any of the "point guards" on the Hawks roster. I kind of expect JJ to be similar to JT, but hopefully with better defense and a slightly higher FG%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Quote: if lue ends up being our starting pg, then we are in trouble and bk made a mistake Yep. I'm pretty sure everybody will defend Billy though. If JJ ends up being the SG it was a big mistake. Really, if the Hawks continue to make the mistakes they have in the past other players aren't going to want to play for the Hawks regardless if they got JJ or not. THe big deals you make are supposed to actually work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbracy Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 If he's averaging 25 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg then he's worth every penny. What more do you want from a shooting guard? 30 ppg? No one in the league will consistantly put those numbers up except for AI, but if JJ is leading our team to victories, especially if the points he's scoring is off-setting an opponents hot shooter and he's helping us win games or keeping in games as oppose to shallow points while we are getting blowed out then he's definitely worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emorystar Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Smoove & Marvin on the bench, is you crazy? That's Atlanta's two franchise players for the future right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Quote: If he's averaging 25 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg then he's worth every penny. What more do you want from a shooting guard? 30 ppg? No one in the league will consistantly put those numbers up except for AI, but if JJ is leading our team to victories, especially if the points he's scoring is off-setting an opponents hot shooter and he's helping us win games or keeping in games as oppose to shallow points while we are getting blowed out then he's definitely worth it. When has JJ lead a team to wins? He was the 3rd option last year. When has he put up 25/5/5? He isn;t in Tmac and Kobe's class... He hasn't even come close to proving it. JJ hasn't proven anything any yet? Stop pulling numbers out of you're rear end. It's going to take a h*llva lot for JJ at SG to be worth 80 million/2 1st round picks/Diaw and probably losing Smith or Childress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholasp27 Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 he put up 20/5/5 leading the suns to 50% victory post-marbury trade but only about 10mpg of that was pg, the other 25-30mins was at sg but getting 5apg mostly as sg shows he can distribute i don't doubt he can make a great pg...he may not be the best halfcourt pg, but most pgs these days aren't anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Quote: he put up 20/5/5 leading the suns to 50% victory post-marbury trade but only about 10mpg of that was pg, the other 25-30mins was at sg but getting 5apg mostly as sg shows he can distribute i don't doubt he can make a great pg...he may not be the best halfcourt pg, but most pgs these days aren't anyway That's not a fullseason. Leading a team to a .500 record is nothing to be proud about anyway. As I said, JJ is going to have to do a h*llva lot at SG to makeup for all that was given up for him and to lose either Childress or Smith on top of that. I just don;t think JJ is THAT good that he can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholasp27 Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 it is when they had one of the worst records in the league for the whole year... and when amare was injured half of those games it was jj and marion and *crickets* for half those games when amare was out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 What award do you get for half a season? I remember a few years ago when we tried to make an argument about JT being a real PG because he had really good stats for a half a season. Which year was it? Half or less than half a season proves very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholasp27 Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 this isn't about point guard ability this is about ability to put up 20/5/5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted September 23, 2005 Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Quote: this isn't about point guard ability this is about ability to put up 20/5/5 And he didn't do it for a fullseason did he? It's simple, as a SG he has to be as good as Tmac and Kobe for him to worth 80 million, 2 1st round picks, Diaw, and losing either J-Chill or Smooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted September 23, 2005 Moderators Report Share Posted September 23, 2005 Quote: and losing either J-Chill or Smooth. Are you assuming we lose one of these players without compensation? Your posts seem to suggest this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Quote: Quote: and losing either J-Chill or Smooth. Are you assuming we lose one of these players without compensation? Your posts seem to suggest this. Hawks don't need to lose either... Unless of course you are talking about a franchise player. I don't see that happening... It would be alot to give up for a guy that isn't worth all of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted September 24, 2005 Moderators Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Quote: Quote: Quote: and losing either J-Chill or Smooth. Are you assuming we lose one of these players without compensation? Your posts seem to suggest this. Hawks don't need to lose either... Unless of course you are talking about a franchise player. I don't see that happening... It would be alot to give up for a guy that isn't worth all of that. I still don't understand why you are counting the loss of Chill or J. Smith in your list of costs of the JJ acquisition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 If JJ is you're starting SG, you have Childress, Smith, Marvin Williams and possibly Al Harrington..... How you going to keep all those guys starting? Smith isn't a backup and neither is Childress, and the likely hood of either wanting to do it longterm is probably unlikely. If JJ isn't a PG, that means Billy has failed to upgrade at two of the most important positions in the NBA. No PG...NO CENTER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted September 25, 2005 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 If JJ is your starting shooting guard... JC is your SF. JS will have to beat out Al at the PF . Still... There's plenty of minutes for everyone... especially considering that JJ can play some PG... However, not full time! If you thought that JJ was brought in to be the fulltime PG, I think you've bought into the soundbites. JJ's game is best suited for 2 guard play. You also say that JJ doesn't have the ability to become Tmac or Kobe. I say why not? JJ is 6'8, he has ball handling ability, he knows how to get to the goal, he can hit the outside shot. If there's ever an opportunity for him to develop into that player, now's the time... Moreover, he was that player at UA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Quote: If JJ is your starting shooting guard... JC is your SF. JS will have to beat out Al at the PF . Still... There's plenty of minutes for everyone... especially considering that JJ can play some PG... However, not full time! If you thought that JJ was brought in to be the fulltime PG, I think you've bought into the soundbites. JJ's game is best suited for 2 guard play. You also say that JJ doesn't have the ability to become Tmac or Kobe. I say why not? JJ is 6'8, he has ball handling ability, he knows how to get to the goal, he can hit the outside shot. If there's ever an opportunity for him to develop into that player, now's the time... Moreover, he was that player at UA! What about Marvin? If he's a bust that's strike againest Billy.... If he doesn't really believe JJ is the PG, that just means he continues to careless about the PG and center spots. JJ... Why not? I haven't seen him show the ability to be un- stoppable... He hasn't proven to be that good of a shooter with the exception of last year when he got some open shots... Granted, I'm sure you've seen him alot more than me... But if I had to bet on him getting to the Kobe level I'd have to bet againest him. I don't care how good he was in the boys league. This isn't college. " There's plenty of minutes for everyone." Al got 30MPG in Indy, but did they stop him from being uphappy? The Hawks are crowded at the 2/3/4... You have Marvin, Chill, Smith, Stoudmire, Al and possibly David Anderson coming over next year. Plus, the Hawks will likely have a top 5 pick in the draft next year. The roster has the potential to get even more crowded... And If all Billy can do is stockpile players then he needs to be fired. Back to JJ... I never expected him to play 39MPG at PG. I figured he'd play somewhere around 26-28MPG at PG. The best the Hawks can do this year is to have: Johnson Childress Smith AL ZaZa on the floor... That's what needs to be on the floor most of the time. Considering the Hawks don't have a superstar they need the best starting 5 they can get. Well, currently that lineup would be it. I think if JJ can't play the bulk of the minutes at PG the Hawks are surely looking at even more years of mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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