JSmoove vs. MWill Rivalry?

[Diesel]

I was just reading the following interview with Smoove... Notice what was not addressed?

Quote:

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What you do think of the additions of Zaza Pachulia, Marvin Williams and Salim Stoudamire? What do you think that they can bring to the Hawks?

You know Zaza Pachulia, he's a rebounder. He rebounds, he wants to set screens and he wants to play defense. That's what we really need is a big man to set screens to get rebounds and defend because we have a lot of offensive threats on the court. I think that we have a lot of scorers so we need a lot of role players as well. So I think that he's a great role player. I think Salim can just shoot the mess out of a ball. I think with him being on the team, he can open the zones. He is a real threat on the perimeter.

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[lakaboy42]

maybe he forgot

[AHF]

Probably because he talked about Marvin the question immediately before:

Quote:

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Do you think that decision factored into selecting Marvin Williams in the draft? Due to the fact that he's very versatile?

Yea I think that's why they got him. They thought that he could be a big help to the team. They thought he was very versatile. You know Marvin is versatile, he works real hard so he'll succeed.

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That is really trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill by implying a rivalry based on him addressing Zaza and Salim only in the next question.

[Diesel]

Actually, I say they have a rivalry because they play the same position... Like it or not, they will be fighting for playing time. i.e. when JSmoove is not playing it's because Marvin is in the game. JSmoove knows this. Notice how he talks about what we will do (2 questions above).. He sayz " Coach said..., Coach said... Coach said..." That tells me that he really haven't bought in and owned the plan.. Maybe because he realized that for now, him and Marvin are rivals.

[AHF]

Quote:

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Actually, I say they have a rivalry because they play the same position... Like it or not, they will be fighting for playing time. i.e. when JSmoove is not playing it's because Marvin is in the game. JSmoove knows this. Notice how he talks about what we will do (2 questions above).. He sayz " Coach said..., Coach said... Coach said..." That tells me that he really haven't bought in and owned the plan.. Maybe because he realized that for now, him and Marvin are rivals.

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That is a more reasonable argument for a rivalry (playing the same position) but you didn't mention that in your original post. You suggested it was apparent from the fact that he didn't mention Marvin when asked about the new players.

That said, I have a hard time seeing the kind of ego clashing rivalry from JSmoove and Marvin that you see from people like Shaq and Kobe. Smoove is going to get his minutes and will be starting.

[Diesel]

1. They were rivals in HS.

2. When JSmoove was asked point blank who he wanted the Hawks to draft back in May..

He said: Either Paul or Bogut. There was no Marvin on the radar. Both were definitely positions of need.

That coupled with the lack of embrace for the plan tells me that Smoove feels the threat.

Chillz is less threatened by Marvin because Chillz can try to play Sg... But Smoove nor Marvin are PFs.. so that means that there will be a struggle for the Sf position.

[mrhonline]

Are you implying that a rivalry would be a detriment to the team? Or merely stating that they are competing vs. each other for playing time?

[DominiqueWilkins]

I don’t see a struggle at all, because J-Smoove has already proven himself he will be a starter on this team, and I don’t see Marvin Williams threatening that. Billy Knight expects of them to become our starting power forward down the road, so the questions will be answered very shortly, and we will get to see how Marvin Williams performs at the 4.

[DominiqueWilkins]

Quote:

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2. When JSmoove was asked point blank who he wanted the Hawks to draft back in May..

He said: Either Paul or Bogut. There was no Marvin on the radar. Both were definitely positions of need.

That coupled with the lack of embrace for the plan tells me that Smoove feels the threat.

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I think you’re over thinking the entire situation, because Smoove was thinking what our needs were, and PG/C was that at the time.

[Nicholasp27]

so now it DOES matter what players say?

oh, i get it...when what players say supports your argument, then it means something...when what they (or bk, or woody or owners) say goes against your predictions, then it's just talk and means nothing...

at least you're consistent in biasing all info towards yourself

[Nicholasp27]

smoove and marvin are our future forward TANDEM...both playing at the same time on the floor...they are NOT competing for pt...they will both get 30mpg+ if they contribute like we hope they will

[AHF]

I have been forwarded top secret photographic evidence of the rivalry.

Here is Josh Smith shaking hands with the Godfather, David Stern, after signing a contract to have Marvin's leg whacked during the summer league:

Here is Marvin Williams elated that Smoove's boys left one of his fingers unbroken in their big shakedown last week. It is getting ugly.

Clearly we need to break these two up for the good of the team. I don't know how long the Hawks can endure a rivalry like this. I would hate to have to be the one to tell little Tony Delk's mother that he was hit in the crossfire during practice.

[Lascar78]

If I wasn't at scool I'd photoshop that belkin/BK picture to make it smoove and marvin.

This is too funny. Can you really imagine Marvin having a rivalry with anyone? He is all about sacrificing whatever it takes to get the win

[Wretch]

I don't think he's implying that it will be a detriment to the team; but that there is a PT/performance rivalry developing between these two. I don't see anything particularly wrong with that. To tell the truth, I don't see how these guys wouldn't have at least a basic rivalry...

Both of these guys have something to prove independently. They're both the same size. It isn't set in stone what position either is going to end up in. Both are in the early stages of their career where they are trying to establish themselves. Players want to start and players want minutes, but there is only one spot available for either of these guys to start in (barring a trade) and while there are plenty of minutes to go around, guys as young as Smoove and MWill, as talented as them, with that much attention surround them, they want to be on the floor; and if our best lineup has Chill at the 2 and Al at the 4 then one of these guys is going to be on the bench. Regardles of how much a team player a guy is, unless he is a role player with his role drilled into his head, then it bothers him.

It would not surprise me at all to learn that there is a considerable rivalry developing there. Not at all. At the very least, ego + ability + logjam has created many a trade scenario for many teams for as long as I remember (hell just ego and ability ALONE...) What makes us immune to this very simple scenario? The vision that the organization has for the team? Because in all my days of watching the NBA that has never been enough to keep player rivalries from developing or affecting the team.

Just my $0.02...

It certainly isn't 100% at this time, but there is no way that I place it out of the realm of possibilities...not by a LONG shot.

[Diesel]

When asked his preference he said either Deron Williams or Bogut. That's not to suggest that he had knowledge of who BK would choose.

However, I would suggest that his preference was based on his belief that the Sf/PF positions were locked up and there was no need in bringing in another Swingman.

The problem is that bringing in Marvin Williams says... Well, we're not too sure about the Sf position...

That's cause for an instant rivalry... because if Smoove believed he was the answer at Sf, what does he really see in Marvin?

[AHF]

Maybe I'm tainted by the incessant criticisms of Marvin Williams by a few vocal members of this board, but I do see this thread at its heart being about why having Williams on the roster is a mistake.

[Diesel]

So in essence,

Most of your response totally ignores the fact that there is/will be/ should be a rivalry developing between 2 players that play the same position.... with not much difference in their skill set?

That's a pity AHF. Part of being an expert on any subject is being willing to be open minded about something that you might not agree with.

I KNOW... that all I have to do is post one thing contrary to the MIGHTY Sacred Cows of Hawksquawk and there will be 20 post suggesting that I have lost it or this or that. I KNOW.. I can make certain people vote whichever way I want them to on any given poll... It's because they never take the time to think critically about what I've said.

I'm glad that you have enough moxy to admit that you fell in that blind rage category because I seemingly attacked your sacred cow. However, put yourself in Smoove's shoes for a second and think critically....

Smoove busted his ass to overcome the criticism of being the "biggest bust of the draft". He turned out to be the steal of the draft. HE worked out well at the Sf position especially alongside Chillz. He still has some things to work on like defense, but he proclaimed that he's in the gym everyday busting his butt again working on that. Draft night, we need a PG and a C... We pick... Sf. In Fact, Smoove nemesis from HS. The guy that scored 34 points on Smoove in a HS game... The guy plays the same position as Smoove. He's picked #2 overall. Don't you think there's a rivalry developing? Listen to Smoove talk in the interview...

He was asked about the pick of Marvin Williams... (Paraphrased) he said"

"Well, (he did start with WELL which is a statement in itself)... Coach said that we will all get playing time at both foward positions. Coach said we will be a very athletic team. Coach said that we will have a rotation of athletic swingman.". Blah Blah blah..

You can call it what you want to and you can try to characturize it with whatever pictures you feel neccessary.. But sometimes, the words... Tell it all. Smoove doesn't seem to have bought into the plan and it's my belief that he might not have agreed with the pick of Marvin in the first place. He did say he would prefer either Bogut or Deron Williams... When you think critically about it.. Smoove is too great a competitor to not make this into a rivalry. Great players want to play!

[Nicholasp27]

Quote:

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That's cause for an instant rivalry... because if Smoove believed he was the answer at Sf, what does he really see in Marvin?

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i don't think smoove believes he's the answer at sf...

i think he believes he's the answer at pf

[Diesel]

Find one occassion of Smoove talking about being a PF!

[Diesel]

I don't think there was ever a time where Smoove said anything about being a Pf. I think he wanted to play Wing. I think the only people who have ran with this PF story is some of the posters here and BK. The posters here got happy about How Smoove played against Dirk.. and immediately starting saying... Smoove can be a Kenyon Martin type PF. First off, Kenyon Martin is more Physical than Smoove and secondly Kenyon Martin Sucks...

Moreover...

Dirk is a perimeter PF. NOt a PF in the post... What will Smoove do with Duncan, Reef, and Al (if we trade him)...

Lastly.

Answer this question honestly.

if we had drafted Deron Williams and had picked up Dally instead of JJ, would you still believe that Smoove is a PF?