New to the board. Question for you guys.

[Plainview1981]

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Dallas is very happy with JT as their starting PG and they are already looking at trying to resign him. I'd LOVE to have JT back here now that we have a guy like JJ that we could pair him up with. I think JT and JJ would be terrific duo because their skills compliment each other so well. Both could play some PG and both could play some SG.

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Dallas might have won with JT at PG, but JT's passes are

still SG passes... He made the simple pass. JT makes simple

passes and Dirk hits shot... Assist for JT. Doesn't make

him a PG. In fact, the Mavs team APG was down by 2 or 3APG

I believe.

[Buzzard]

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The fact of the matter is that Smith is not better than Childress or Al...

The fact of the matter is that JJ has never been a starting PG for a season but he's a helluva SG.

Moreover, your logic easily justifies my claim.

You say JJ is better than Delk because he can put up 20/5/5.

Well, he's easily better than Childress because he can put up those numbers while being a starter at Sg.

And Childress is easily better than Smoove because Childress is a very good scoring and rebounding Sf.

And Al is better than Smoove also.

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Clasic Diesel, the question is .... of those listed above who is Delk better than. And the answer of course is no one which is why he will not be starting as you think he should.

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JT is still being a SG.

Dallas has a team with other ball handlers who can bring the ball up and get them into their offense... Like Daniels and even Stack. When you watch the Mavs, JT does what he always have done... He sets up at the three point line and waits for Dirk to swing it to him...

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So it is OK for (much better than ok if you look at last years record) Dallas to not use a classic PG but for our Hawks it will be a disaster in your opinion....

I think we all know you hope we fail... I really beleive that. Its like your almighty ego is more important than our success. You are just dying to say I told you so which is the real reason you just will not let the not drafting a pg post go.

The main reason I do not post anywhere near as much anymore is because 50% of this board is dominated by you and your one thought. Its like eating the same old food everyday....

[f_town]

yea yer prolly right

Diesel is prolly Bobcats Fan # 1 and is trying to undermine fan confidence here at the Squawk

I personally hope that we dont fail, just for diesel sake

im sure he has posts bookmarked to support any possible outcome lol

he has become the Fran Drescher of hawksquawk...repetitive, whiny, and annoying

Skol

[Diesel]

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lasic Diesel, the question is .... of those listed above who is Delk better than. And the answer of course is no one which is why he will not be starting as you think he should.

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It's classic because I'm the only one who is able to see that Delk is our best scoring PG. Say what you want... JJ is a better Sg than Pg and just because he can relieve Steve Nash in a system of scorers doesn't mean he can run our offense that is a system of young players. All in All, JJ will have NO vet help on the team. None of these 1st yr guys know how to run an offense. It will be different than Phoenix.

Moreover, Phoenix had a shot to get Kobe. They could have gotten Kobe and moved JJ to PG. Instead, they got Nash. Why would they take Nash and his large contract if JJ is a "PG"...

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So it is OK for (much better than ok if you look at last years record) Dallas to not use a classic PG but for our Hawks it will be a disaster in your opinion....

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Had you noticed the makeup of Dallas' team. JT rarely did anything that a PG is supposed to do because Dallas is filled with ball handlers and mature vets. I mean, Finley, Dirk, Stack are all good ball handlers and mature vets. Daniels is a PG charading as a SG. JT has found his perfect place in Dallas because that team allows him to do what he does.... Set up for the three.

In Atlanta... We have our own flavor. Neither JC, JS, or Al are the ball handlers we would have hoped them to be. JC, JS, ZP are all 2nd or 3rd year players and Al is in the second year of starting...

So we are really YOUNG... Our youth counts for us as IGNORANCE on the floor when you think about running plays.

In Phoenix, JJ would bring the ball over the line and he would throw the ball in to somebody who knew how to get their own position and score. Even Amare.. He's young but as you watched last year, he was learning his spots. However, our guys are not as good at creating for themselves. In otherwords, our guys are still on the nipple and they need the PG that can be a surrogate. I don't think JJ can do that.

[Diesel]

FTown,

If you had more than 245 posts, you would know who Diesel is. You think you can do this to me? You hawksquawkers would be posting about basketball on AOL if it wasn't for Diesel. Hawksquawk. I'm the man up in this piece. You'll never see the light of... who the [censored] do you think you're [censored] with? I'm the [censored] around here. You just post here. That's right, that's right. I'm winning anyway.

[Lascar78]

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he has become the Fran Drescher of hawksquawk...repetitive, whiny, and annoying

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Excellent analysis.

Even his so-called ego-trips as above have become repetitive and boring. yawn

I just wish there was an ignore function

[thecampster]

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"The fact of the matter is that Smith is not better than Childress or Al... "

Diesel I'm starting to wonder if you believe everything you say. I think a statistical analysis based on 48 minutes is in order for Josh C vs. Josh S. Childress played 29.7 minutes a game last year, Smith played 27.7. similar but not exact so we need the per 48 minute comparison. Let's see.

Per 48 minutes.

Josh Childress - 16.32 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 3.07 apg, 1.4545 spg, .6465 bpg.

Josh Smith - 16.8 ppg, 10.74 rpg, 2.95 apg, 1.39 spg, 3.47 bpg.

Smith went for .5 points, 1 rebound and 2.8 more blocks per 48 minutes.

Childress went for .12 assists and .06 more steals per 48 minutes last year.

Now consider Childress played the bulk of his minutes at the 2/3 and Smith played the bulk of his minutes at the 3/4 but the players are similar in size, it stands to reason that Childress should statistically have a size advantage over smooth against his opponents, was draftd much higher and had a year of college under his belt. I like both players and wish to keep both. But to say Childress is clearly better lunacy. Smith outplayed him in 3 of the 4 categories and was almost the same in the other 3.

This is another example of you posting more than others and reading your own posts over and over and them becoming fact in your mind. Chillz is not better statistically than Smooth, period. If he's better in your opinion than say so but realize it's an opinion. Just like it's your opinion JJ can't play the point and not a fact that he'll end up at shooting guard. Is it possible, sure. Is it a good idea, you seem to think so. Is it a fact, NO. A resounding NO. Until the coach says, hey JJ, what'ya say you slide over to the 2 and let Salim and Lue push the rock for a while, he is slated to play the point and your assumption he is a 2 for us is an opinion and not reality.

For fun now, using the above stats, and using typically fantasy sports points analysis (it's how those fancy nba rating services rank player efficiency on all those sites we quote) let's compare Al to the 2 afore mentioned players. We'll give 1 point per point, 1 per rebound, 2 per assist, 1 per steal, 1 per block.

Harrington stats per 48 (he averaged 38.6 mpg) - 21.89 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 3.98 apg, 1.62 spg, .25 bpg. Smith wins 2 of 3 categories directly related to being a power forward (blocks and rebounds) pretty handily.

Harrington gets a score of - 40.395

Smith gets a score of - 38.2

Childress get's a score of - 34.26

As you can see, Harrington does beat Smith but is it really as big a differential as you expect considering Smith was a 19 year old rookie who rotted on the bench behind Walker. I believe this was a good idea but to boldly proclaim that either is better or that Smooth doesn't have the tools to dominate in the league is like something a hollywood actress would say sitting courtside at a Laker game.

If you're going to argue this, argue it with facts please.

[Traceman]

AI has always defended the other team's PG and Philly's PG has always defended the other team's SG. Philly's GM was able to acquire GOOD PGs (or combo guards) with good ballhandling skills AND size to compliment AI in the backcocurt. Unfortunately for JT, he never got that opportunity when he was here.

That being said, you contradict yourself by criticizing JT and then suggesting that Delk should be our starting PG. What a joke! How in the world can you crticize JT's ability to play PG when Delk has NEVER averaged more than 2.6 apg in a single season and has a career average of 1.9 apg? Heck Chillz averaged 1.9 apg last year! Even if we did decide that JJ can't play PG, Lue is a FAR better option to start at PG than Delk at this stage of their careers. Lue can do everything that Delk can do but he is FAR better PG and he's even a better defender at this stage of their careers.

One more thing. I think Chillz is a FAR better ballhandler than you give him credit for. If we had a guy who could handle and pass the ball as good as Chillz does when JT was here, JT might still be around. Chillz' ballhandling skills are fine, it is the SF slot I'm worried about.

[Plainview1981]

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AI has always defended the other team's PG and Philly's PG has always defended the other team's SG. Philly's GM was able to acquire GOOD PGs (or combo guards) with good ballhandling skills AND size to compliment AI in the backcocurt. Unfortunately for JT, he never got that opportunity when he was here.

That being said, you contradict yourself by criticizing JT and then suggesting that Delk should be our starting PG. What a joke! How in the world can you crticize JT's ability to play PG when Delk has NEVER averaged more than 2.6 apg in a single season and has a career average of 1.9 apg? Heck Chillz averaged 1.9 apg last year! Even if we did decide that JJ can't play PG, Lue is a FAR better option to start at PG than Delk at this stage of their careers. Lue can do everything that Delk can do but he is FAR better PG and he's even a better defender at this stage of their careers.

One more thing. I think Chillz is a FAR better ballhandler than you give him credit for. If we had a guy who could handle and pass the ball as good as Chillz does when JT was here, JT might still be around. Chillz' ballhandling skills are fine, it is the SF slot I'm worried about.

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Why are you worried about the SF spot? We should be concerned about the center spot. But I agree.. I wouldn't

start Delk over Lue. Delk is nothing more than Mookie

without the defensive ability or passing ability.

[Traceman]

the BALLHANDLING repsonsibilities of the position when JJ and Chillz are in the lineup together. If Lue or Sotudamire are in at PG, it is not an issue but it is likely that JJ will be pressed full court by smaller/quicker PGs in order to tire him out. If our SF is a decent ballhandler, it will be MUCH easier to break the press and JJ won't have to work as hard to ge the ball across half court.

[Nicholasp27]

well in the future, marvin will be our sf, and he can hopefully learn to be a good ballhandler

[Plainview1981]

That's possibly one way Diaw could have been a benefit

to the Hawks. It is alittle disturbing that the team

doesn't have much of a true ballhandler. I think Smooves

lack of ballhandling will be another why he could start

at PF this year... Lue could get more minutes than expected

due to the fact that the team doesn't have alot of ball

handlers. I just hope Delk doesn't see a huge chunk of

minutes.

IF Marvin is a good ball handler that might get him minutes

quicker. If you don't have a pure PG, I'd think having

multiple is something that becomes more important.

[Traceman]

ability to shoot the ball are the primary reasons I think he might fit better in the starting lineup with JJ and Chillz than Smoove will before the season is over.

[Traceman]

The only way I see him playing less is if Salim comes in and just starts tearing it up.

[skyhawk]

It's a team sport and a player's worth should be measured in more than statistics. I'm glad we have both of them but Childress' game is much more complete - he can handle, drive, defend, pass, rebound and his shot will get better. He'll also be the leader of this team at some point in his career - even with JJ here.

If I had to choose - Childress without a doubt.

[Nicholasp27]

if jj is truly a pg, then he'll play 30+mpg at pg

he is a 40mpg player...he'll play some at sg as well, but if he's truly a good pg, then expect 15mpg or less for backup pgs

[Traceman]

JJ can be a VERY good PG and still only play 24 mpg at PG. Both Lue and Salim are going to get PT because they are both pretty good players. We need the perimeter shooting that both of them can provide and that likely means JJ will be the one who slides to the 2. This could happen quite a bit depending on matchups. Playing less than 30 mpg is not an indictment of JJ's abilities as a PG but rather an acknowledgement that Lue and Salim can help us win.

[Nicholasp27]

well i'll be ok with it if it's salim getting the mins

i do NOT want lue getting 20+mpg

he stops the offensive flow, he can't defend and he isn't part of our future

[AHF]

(1) Delk is not a true PG. I love him, but he is a shooting guard with a PG's size.

(2) Statistics do a very poor job in capturing a player's defensive ability. Players who merely get their man to miss shots or turn the ball over (not on steals to the player in question) get absolutely no recognition for this effort in the box score. If a defender plays matador defense and misses 8 times (giving up easy buckets) but gets a steal and block on the other 2 plays he looks better statistically than someone who stays at home and gets his guy to shoot 2 for 10 without any turnovers, steals or blocks.

It is along simlar lines to cornerbacks in football. The very best CBs don't get many tackles or interceptions because people are afraid to throw at them. A poor CB might get burned repeatedly but accrue a lot of tackles getting down the guy who just burned him.

For those reasons, I really don't like trying to use "fantasy" numbers to evaluate a player's value, particularly defensively.

[mrhonline]

As an aside, I must point out that Diesel is closing in on 11,000 posts.

If you (conservatively) figure ~3 minutes for each of his own posts and ~1 minute to read the other posts in the thread, that's 44,000 minutes on Hawksquawk.

Or 733.3 hours.

In other words, Diesel has spent, at the very least, one full month of his life typing and reading on Hawksquawk.

That's mind boggling. (So is the fact that he has more posts than the next three most prolific posters combined!).

Diesel, are you paying for server space?