Sign Harrington Long Term

[jumpshot]

I think we should sign Harrington long term, becaue he is our only legit inside scorer. JJ can back down a smaller guard, but no one else can post up. I think J Smith will be a small forward and Marvin will probably grow into a power forward in a couple of years. I think Childress is a small forward, but he is not a starter.

[mrhonline]

Do you really want to lock him up as the teams' PF for the next five years with his lack of height, defense, and consistency? I'm not denying that he's essential to this team's current success, but it's a totally different argument when you think about his role long-term.

I say let him start through this year and evaluate his future at both the deadline and in the offseason. Look for trades for a true PF with similar low post skills and be willing to trade Harrington in that package.

He will be one of the most sought-after FA's and will not come as cheap as we would hope. Plus, with Marvin, Smith, and Childress all having the potential to be starters at the 3, Harrington, while necessary now, should be expendable in the future.

Signing him long-term could block the development of the young 3's on this team, as well as ensure that the Hawks' interior defensive problems continue because you committed most of the remaining salary space to him.

[Admin]

I would much rather keep a dominating scoring PF who is undersized like Al in the lineup and find a big bodied C who can clean the glass to pair him with.

However, I think that Woody sees him as our SF of the future and I cant argue with that. I believe that Marvin plays like a big SF, but that he will continue to grow and will become a factor at PF in the near future. Either he or Smoove will become our PF of the future. I would prefer it to be Marvin since he is such an incredible outside shooter that he can go outside while Al posts up the smaller SFs. The fact is that Al is one of the best scorers in the paint in the whole NBA and appears to be getting better at it. He clearly isnt a defensive force at PF, but I think he can be a good enough defender at SF once he works on it. I definitely like keeping him for the future.

The big problem is ZaZa. What to do with him. I love how he plays the game, but he is undersized for a C. He plays big, but he doesnt intimidate anyone down there. Thats the big thing that this team is missing is an enforcer down low. None of the guys on our roster are going to become enforcers either and since I would rate Smoove and Marvin as being more important to the teams longterm future than ZaZa, I would rather replace him in the starting lineup with an enforcer type C, whether we have to draft one or sign one or trade for one ... but I wouldnt give up Al to do it unless I had no choice.

Right now, if I had to trade anyone for a big body it would be Childress. I really like Chillz and I think he is going to be a good player for a long time, but I just cant see him being successful at SG and he doesnt have a spot at SF and I would much rather see JJ moved to SG ... so I would try and trade Chillz for a big body. He could be a very successful SF for some team. I'm sure there is a team needing a SF that would give up a quality young big man for him

[Diesel]

How long before you give up the campaign against Al. I think Al is our best scorer and last night was just more proof that without him, we SUCK.

Moreover...

You can't name one big man that's available that will match what Al gives us scoring wise.

Bottom line, the NBA is about scoring and Al does it. You can pop off about the development of the "YOUNG 3"... Needless to say, the Young 3 could only hope to be as good as Al right now. I mean for all this talk about Marvin, his ceiling might be Al!... Seeing that we have Al, we shouldn't just give him away for the poppy **** that you have mentioned...

I'm tired of being the Clipps!

[Admin]

I dont know if you have watched him play the first two games, but the kid looks extremely impressive. He might only develope into an equal scorer down low as Al, but one thing he has that Al will never have is the ability to get his shot off from anywhere. Al just doesnt have that ability. Al can score on anyone in the post, but if you lock him up on the outside with a defender he isnt likely to get a good shot off, whereas Marvin can certainly do that.

I love Al and dont want to trade him and am glad to see after your endless trade Al scenarios last year that you are coming around ... but he will never be the level of player that Marvin will be.

I have to say that I was pretty skeptical of drafting Marvin, wanting Bogut (thought he was the best player in the draft) and Paul or Deron (major positional need players) ahead of him, but I am super excited about him now. He is extremely aggressive and isnt afraid to shoot the ball. He has superstar written all over him and he is clearly the most gifted player on our team. Man his jumper is a thing of pure beauty. Once he learns how to score better in the post and learns to get higher to throw down his dunks on this level he is going to be VERY difficult to defend.

Oh and he is also TERRIFIC on NBA Live 06 LOL

[Diesel]

First off, Marvin was not more celebrated than Al as a HSer... Secondly Al is 6'9 235-250 with Speed, inside game, outside game... Marvin has NEVER shown any kind of inside Game. He has NO post moves... How can he be considered a higher ceiling? Because we drafted him??? Becauase the pundits kept blowing smoke up your butt?

Here's one of the scouting reports

Quote:

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Al Harrington was voted the top high school player in the country and from what I've seen, I would agree. He is the best of the high school prospects in this draft, and his stock could continue to rise until he is picked around 5-9.

My report is based on the two occasions I have seen him play, the McDonald's All-American game, and the Hoop Summit against the international team. His game and size are very similar to that of Antoine Walker. He is a 6'8 PF/SF who excels at putting the ball on the floor and creating his own shot. Has a lot of nifty one-on-one moves and used the glass well. Very good ball handler for his size. Seems to stay in control most of the time, the opposite of Walker. Haven't seen him shoot much from the outside. When I have, he looked just average. His game is suited better to the NBA than college, due to his great one-on-ability and overall game. Doesn't seem to be incredibly athletic, but is very quick with the ball. Most polished player in this year's high school class. Not sure about his post-up moves.

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[Admin]

I am talking about Al, being in what, his 6th or 7th year ... compared to Marvin as a rookie. There is not much difference in their games. Al is a better post scorer, Marvin is a better perimeter scorer. Marvin is a better ball handler and they are both equally average on defense. Give Marvin 6 years to grow his game and I almost guarantee that he will be far better than Al will ever be.

I am not knocking Al like you seem to think. The problem is that your current fade is to knock Marvin, not unlike last years trend of you knocking Al and wanting to trade him for a bag of chips. Which way will the Diesel wind of arrogance blow tomorrow ... JJ seems to be the next logical step in your progression of dislike for our players.

[Plainview1981]

How long before you give up the campaign against Al. I think Al is our best scorer and last night was just more proof that without him, we SUCK. "

uhhhh... Last time I looked the Hawks won 13 games last

year, so it isn't like they are good with 3rd option

Al.

[mrhonline]

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I would much rather keep a dominating scoring PF who is undersized like Al in the lineup and find a big bodied C who can clean the glass to pair him with.

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Dolfan, I totally respect your analysis, but to carry it out you would have to find that big-bodied C. Unfortunately, that's the hardest thing to find in the NBA. By contrast, there are many teams in the NBA that could be successful with Zaza at center. He's more than sufficient in today's NBA.

I also have no problem with Al at SF if, and it's a big if, Marvin or Josh can become a reliable post defender. However, Harrington's contract will end before we're likely to have an answer at PF.

So, the Hawks have to make a tough decision:

1. Keep Al at PF permanently, let Josh and Marvin fight it out for the SF position, and keep getting abused inside.

2. Keep Al at SF permanently, let Josh and Marvin fight it out for the PF position, and keep getting abused inside.

3. Trade Al+Childress for a legit PF, let Josh and Marvin fight it out for the SF position, and NOT get abused inside.

My preference is #3 because I think it lets the best of the young players, Marvin, play his natural position. Still, I can completely understand someone wanting to do option #1 or #2.

Of course, Diesel, you replace Al's inside scoring when you trade for that legit PF. JJ & Mr. Big become the inside-outside combo to replace JJ-AH.

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Right now, if I had to trade anyone for a big body it would be Childress. I really like Chillz and I think he is going to be a good player for a long time, but I just cant see him being successful at SG and he doesnt have a spot at SF and I would much rather see JJ moved to SG ... so I would try and trade Chillz for a big body. He could be a very successful SF for some team. I'm sure there is a team needing a SF that would give up a quality young big man for him

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Agreed, but I don't think Childress would be enough to find a starting-caliber PF or C. It's going to take a package of young players...

[Diesel]

When you have 6 6'8 Sfs you have to choose the best of the bunch and go with that.

I make no bones that I wanted to trade Al for a C or PG. I make no bones that I wanted to draft a PG or a C. I make no bones that I still think we're hurting in those areas. Here's what's different now than was different in March...

1. Now, we have Zaza. I like Zaza. I think that Zaza is a good big man.

2. Now, we have JJ and have given up a lot for JJ.

Why does that make a difference

It makes the biggest difference because you don't put JJ with a bunch of inexperienced players and expect good things to happen. When we dropped that contract on JJ, I think resigning Al became priority #1. JJ needs a player who can score playing with him.

Why don't I like Marvin

It's not that I don't like Marvin. I think he was unproven. I think that he was mostly hype. But most importantly, I think he was the wrong pick at the time.

Trust me. Marvin will have to be better than Paul, Deron, and Smoove to change my mind on that.

[Plainview1981]

It makes the biggest difference because you don't put JJ with a bunch of inexperienced players and expect good things to happen. When we dropped that contract on JJ, I think resigning Al became priority #1. JJ needs a player who can score playing with him."

We need a top 10 player and I don't think there is anybody

on the Hawks roster with the potential to be that other

than Marvin perhaps. A JJ/AL combo as your 1st and 2nd

best plaers really isn't going to take you that far.

[Admin]

Who do you propose we trade for? I know that a combo and Al and Childress should be able to get any PF in the league outside of Duncan/Garnett ... but, are there any teams willing to do that? If you trade both of those guys, you have to get a very, very good player back. Someone who equals the combined potential of Al (who still has lots of room to grow) and Childress (who should continue to grow). I just dont see anyone out there that fits the bill for that.

On the other hand, if we could make a deal like a Childress for Devin Harris or David Harrison, that makes a lot more sense because we get back a young player at a position of need who matches the upside of Childress at this point. Looking at another deal, maybe we can get that PF you covet if we looked to deal Childress for May. He is a little short, but I believe his upside is tremendous and he is certainly a big body. Not sure that Charlotte would deal him though.

For me I just dont want to trade Al. He is just too damn good at scoring in the post right now to give up on him. Not to mention he wants the ball in his hands, he is still plenty young enough to get much better, AND he has already shown that he is really developing his 3pt stroke. I would hate to give him up only to see him turn into an all-star player. I am willing to give up Childress, not because I dont like him, but because he is young and has value and I dont feel like we are using him where he can be most effective. Last year I felt he could be turned into a very good SG because of his size, but his shot appears to have actually regressed and he certainly wont have a future with us at his natural position of SF with Smoove, Al, and Marvin all capable of playing there.

[Admin]

I like ZaZa. I think that when combined with a big PF he can be a very good C. However, I think he is more of a natural low post 4 that can fill in at the 5.

I dont think Al should be going anywhere. I have never wanted to trade Al and I still dont now. I think that he and JJ are great young veterans who can lead our team into the future.

I love Marvin. I was in the draft Paul or Deron camp from day 1 of the offseason and didnt get my wish ... BUT Marvin has been a very pleasant surprise. Its going to take a little time, maybe a year, for him to learn to score down low with the ball in his hands, but his jumper is a thing of pure beauty, he is very aggressive, and seems very mature on the court. I love his fire and I believe that he has what it takes to be an outstanding player on this level.

I think that our big 3 for the future are JJ, Al, and Marvin. I think that Salim has a big spot with this club going forward as well. Smoove and Childress are bubble players. They both have a lot of work to do before I am ready to commit to them for the long term. I hope they both turn into star players, but they could go either way right now. Neither of them have that Marvin feeling, at least not to me. I also like ZaZa, but I dont see him as the starting C for a team looking to win a championship. I think he is the first man off the bench to back up the 4 and 5 though. Unfortunately we dont have a big bodied shotblocking C to replace him with right now.

[wartownrep]

I like Zaza as our future 4 and Al/Marvin as our future 3. I seen Zaza play and the more I see him the more I see a semi dominate 4. He moves well and he can put the ball on the floor when needed also he's scrappy and can rebound well. Al can play the three and I think he can play it well. If we can find a decent 5 I think we have a legit playoff team and a real pg so we can move Joe over. The rest of the young guys can come off the bench or traded for a legit 5 and point. So we're really in the same boat as we were last year except we have talent on the bench and players we can use to trade for a 1 and 5. Every championship team have talent on the bench.

[Yeti]

"Trust me. Marvin will have to be better than Paul, Deron, and Smoove to change my mind on that."

I think everyone here would agree on that. As the #2, Marvin had better shine. We only disagree on whether we think it will happen.

[emeans]

I totally agree. It is obvious that he is our best player right now. He is a realiable scorer in the block. We have to start keeping our talent now and bringing in more stars.

[Diesel]

This I can respect. I'm no fan of Marvin and I hope this year doesn't become a let's get Rudy Gay Campaign come March... I think at some time, you have to trust what you are developing and go for need... Because Need is Need... Need will always make you lose.

To make it simple.

We can go out and draft Rudy Gay in 2006... But we will be no closer to getting to a winning team. It's the same recipe that the Clipps followed for years... They would stockpile Potential and then watch Potential Leave.. because afterwhile, Potential (when Mature) wants to win.

A better formula is start winning and then you will attract matured potential.

[Diesel]

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Trust me. Marvin will have to be better than Paul, Deron, and Smoove to change my mind on that."

I think everyone here would agree on that.

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Actually, Everyone does not agree with that... Doesn't makes sense huh? But there are some Hawks Fans that say that even if Deron or Paul or Smoove turn out better than Marvin, it's alright...

To me. That's where the B.S. Starts!

[phoostal]

Why would Harrington want to resign with the Hawks?

[exodus]

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First off, Marvin was not more celebrated than Al as a HSer... Secondly Al is 6'9 235-250 with Speed, inside game, outside game...

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FYI Al was drafted at 25 in the '98 draft. Hughes and Nowitzki went 8 and 9 so obviously Al wasn't that celebrated. Lue was drafted ahead of him.

Also his D is very suspect. So many times I have seen him let guys go right past him for layups and he makes to effort to block the shot or give a hard foul. The only time he exerts himself is when the ball is in his hands.

Between Al, Mavin, and Smith, at least one of them has to be traded. Even if they don't want to trade Al they may be forced to trade him rather than let him walk after the season. I seriously doubt he would choose to resign here. Remember he is unrestricted.