But where do you play Al and Zaza....

[Diesel]

I keep hearing that we should get a Bigbody to play Pf or C.

The question is where do you play Al and Zaza??

There are several problems with the season...

1. There aren't many available big men either by FAcy or trade.

2. If you do get one, who sits?

It's a valid question because both Al and Zaza are proving themselves on the court offensively and on the boards.

Here's one consideration:

IN the offseason:

We obtain RONDO (draft) and via FA we get Speedy Claxton/Tony Battie and we re-sign Al.

Would that mean that for next year we play:

Rondo/JJ/Al/Zaza/Battie...

as our starting 5?

[Final_quest]

Too many ifs and conjecture for anyone to seriously answer that question.

I'll just expect for now that we won't make all of those moves.

[Diesel]

Well, the moves that I have suggested is not the question..

The question is if you bring in any big man, where do you play Al, Zaza, and the rest?

[Nicholasp27]

i wouldn't start battie over double-double za-za

but i wouldn't mind trading al for a more defensive pf (or for something else and letting smoove be our defensive rebounding pf if he can)

battie would be a good backup for zaza tho

[Diesel]

Go ahead, make up your list, so I can laugh at the team that's left!

[Nicholasp27]

i don't know

that's the problem

there aren't any great solutions

that's why i'm fine with keeping al if we can pay him 6-7/year...but not for 9-10+

[Iman]

Yup, this discussion further brings up why we need to move Al. He's a combo forward that needs to play SF unless you have a big center. I dont think Smoove creates quite the same problem due to his rebounding and help defense abilities. Move Al if you can get something good for him. If not keep him and sign and trade or even trade him later down the road. We'll never be a great team with Al at PF unless we get Shaq to play with him.

ZaZa is gonna have to be our starting center for a while, doubt we'll get anyone good enough to move him to the bench. To be great, this lineup needs to work or else we need more players:

JJ

Chill

Marvin

Smoove

ZaZa

I hope we fall into this lineup later in the year. It will put a huge load on JJ but I think as the year passes he'll be able to handle it. JJ needs some help with ballhandling and Chill and Marvin would have to get used to that. JJ would also have to defend AI and all the quick guards. Maybe we'd play alot of zone. I still want to see what that lineup would do for an extended trial. Doubt it would be winless if we had used it so far!

[Packfill]

Quote:

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Yup, this discussion further brings up why we need to move Al. He's a combo forward that needs to play SF unless you have a big center. I dont think Smoove creates quite the same problem due to his rebounding and help defense abilities. Move Al if you can get something good for him. If not keep him and sign and trade or even trade him later down the road. We'll never be a great team with Al at PF unless we get Shaq to play with him.

ZaZa is gonna have to be our starting center for a while, doubt we'll get anyone good enough to move him to the bench. To be great, this lineup needs to work or else we need more players:

JJ

Chill

Marvin

Smoove

ZaZa

I hope we fall into this lineup later in the year. It will put a huge load on JJ but I think as the year passes he'll be able to handle it. JJ needs some help with ballhandling and Chill and Marvin would have to get used to that. JJ would also have to defend AI and all the quick guards. Maybe we'd play alot of zone. I still want to see what that lineup would do for an extended trial. Doubt it would be winless if we had used it so far!

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That line-up does not work. No point guard and no post defender.

[Weez]

It is indeed a valid questino and one that brings up a lot of points concerning how this team is built.

While I've been more 'silent' of late, I've been trying to keep up with the posts and discussions...and largely avoiding ones that were completely repetitive or 'trade chill'...when the entire team is losing, I think everyone takes the blame, not just one player (JJ playing great, sure that there is a way to expand his game to be more productive...Chill playing like crap..and yet little mention of the benching of JSmoove).

Regardles, to the post at hand.

the best thing we could do...is trade for someone like Boozer (who's out for another month, thus his value is actually lower) or Gooden.

i prefer Boozer...simply because he fits. Zaza has shown that he is indeed a serviceable center. Many here want to say that he'd be better at the pf...but really, what more production would you expect from him?

Al would actually fit decently alongside Kirilenko, thhus making more sense.

We need a 'bigger' player down low than can play true post defense. We need ot open the glut (at some point) at the 3...

that's about the best trade that I could come up with off the top of my head. It saves us the headache of trying to figure out Al's worht caome resigning time (and possibly overpay him or get nothing for him). Granted Boozer is overpaid, and he left a horrible taste in my mouth after the way thigns went down in Cleveland...but that's one of the few feasible trades that makes sense...

[Diesel]

Lots of people are like you Iman and just want to trade Al so that the young players can play.

This will have a horrible effect on JJ. In order for JJ to be effective, he needs proven scorers helping him. JJ is not a PG, he's a SG.

I think our problem is not in the frontcourt at all...

For all the heeing and hawing about rebounds.. We are outrebounding our opponents on both the offensive and defensive boards.

Defensively, we have to do better. Teams are shooting 48% on us... and they are outscoring us about 111 to 83...

Trading Al doesn't begin to solve that problem. Josh Smith is shooting 34% from the field...

[Diesel]

I think there's a much greater problem with Boozer. I expect Boozer will be injury prone. It's something wrong in the picture. Utah would probably ship us Boozer for Delk/Donta/ and Batista... But do you want a player who has played since Feb and won't play til next Jan?

Gooden is my type of guy. I have always liked him. He's defensive. However, we have the same guy here. His name is Smoove. Shot blocker. The only diference is that Gooden is a bit more polished and taller. Neither have good BBIQ which is why I wouldn't trade anybody important for Gooden.

[exodus]

A center and pf combo of Al and Zaza will always be inadequate defensively. Always.

A c/pf combo of Zaza/Smith is much stronger defensively but obviously right now it is weaker offensively.

Now which scenario is more likely?

1) Al will improve defensively

2) Josh will improve offensively

Also if the Hawks get a true pg Josh will get easier chances to score. And he doesn't need to score more than 10-12 ppg to be effective as long as he is getting 8-9 boards and 3-4 blocks, which he can do. If the Hawks get a pg he can let the 1-3 players carry the scoring load along with Zaza.

[wartownrep]

I say find a center play AL at 3 and move ZaZa to 4. I hope David Anderson can come in next year and fill that 5 spot and we're set, if not find a long power foward(6'10" and up). All we need is a pg and I was one of those guys who wanted Paul ,butI guess it's done now and there's nothing we can do about it. It's time to get away from that BK bs about putting any player and get some real position players. A real point guard, a real power foward, a real shooting guard. All of these 3's playing 4's and 2's..2's playing 1..1 playing 2 are causing alot of problems because everybody is playing out of there comfort zone and thinking too much..

[Diesel]

If you're talking about Smoove improving at the Pf position, I like the idea of Al improving defensively...

You're problem Exodus is that you don't understand substitutions. Al/Zaza doesn't play the WHOLE game, they just start the game. There's no need to trade away one of our best offensive pieces for ???? and hope that JSmoove becomes better offensively. Because Pardon the truth here, JSmoove will never be as good as Al Offensively in the low post. Just like Al is not a shot blocker. However, that doesn't mean you get rid of either. What you do is you learn what substitutions mean! Once you do, teach it to Woody.

[exodus]

Quote:

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If you're talking about Smoove improving at the Pf position, I like the idea of Al improving defensively...

---

I understand substitutions just fine than you. The Hawks need another shotblocker so they can have one on the court whenever Zaza is in.

Al isn't good now defensively and is unlikely to ever get better because he has been in the league many years already.

Josh Smith is much more likely to improve offensively because he is 19.

So you really think a 25 year old vet has more of a chance to get better than a 19 yr old? That is retarded.

Josh Smith is a top 10 shotblocker now playing 25 minutes split between the 3/4. What do you think he will do with 30+ minutes at the 4?

[MoonKnight]

Are we so certain that Al wants to resign here? Sure most NBA players will sign with the team that can offer the most $$ which we can for Al. IMO, Al is not completely that type of guy. I could see Al wanting a decent long term contract to go along with a team that can win games. We don't need another Danny Manning type situation on our hands. Hopefully BK already has a good idea about Al's intentions and can plan accordingly. Should a trade be made, I would not be surprised to see us go after a vet bigger combo guard to start beside JJ. In fact I think you mentioned Daniels name out of Dallas a few days ago. I am not convinced that JChill has the ball skills to play the 2 spot and is a bad match with JJ. We just need a 2 guard who can play the point on some plays allowing JJ to play off the ball and look for his O at times. I doubt we can correct our interior frontcourt problems via trade. Thoughts?

[Diesel]

I think we got a good enough repoire with Al that if he wanted to go elsewhere, he would let BK know before the trade season and we would work out a SNT for him. The only question mark is MW. How did Al recieve MW being drafted?

Still, looking around at our options, I still believe (barring him not wanting to be here) Al being resigned is our best option.

[Weez]

Diesel, you know how much I hate the injury prone title/tag.

Regardless, while I like Gooden...I think that you give him too much credit.

Boozer 'plays tall' and gets good position...Gooden goes not. While both board well, Boozer is the more fundamental (if slightly less athletic). thereby, he gives us more of a 'body' presence in the post...and he's also a guy that knows his role and accepts that...something in me says that Gooden's 'not there yet' in terms of accepting his status as an above average nba player but not a star. There's certianly more stability in Boozer...there was a reason Silas didn't like Gooden and refused to play him as much as he probably warranted.

you said it yourself, Boozer's iq is much higher than Gooden's, though they are reversed in terms of 'physical gifts.'

[emorystar]

Vlad Radmanivich (sp?). The SF/PF from Seattle.

Package Josh Childress with Lue or Delk or whoever to bring him in. He could be that third scorer we need.

[mudderfudder77]

Quote:

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Defensively, we have to do better. Teams are shooting 48% on us... and they are outscoring us about 111 to 83...

Trading Al doesn't begin to solve that problem. Josh Smith is shooting 34% from the field...

---

Now Diesel, when I talked with you at the start of the season you were whistling a different tune.

You told me that defense wouldn't matter, that this team was going to play a "Pheonix" style game and not worry about defense. Your words were that they didn't need to play defense because they were going to "outscore" the other team. When did it change - when did you come to the realization that defense is an important part of basketball?