Sean Elliot made a great point about Smoove

[Admin]

in last nights game. He was talking about back when he was in high school and he had a game where he had like 7-8 blocks and I believe it was Lute Olson who told him that once he learns to play defense he will be a really good player and Sean said something like "but I had 7 blocks tonight" and Lute said something like "yeah but good defense means not letting your guy take the shot". That to me says it all about Smoove at this point. He plays horrible man up defense and I dont believe its because he cant do it, but I believe its more that he wants to make the acrobatic play and block the shot from behind like he has done his whole life. So, just like with Sean, if he ever learns to keep his man in front of him and lock him down, he could become a very good player.

[KB21]

It's all part of the learning process. We have to remember that Josh is in his second year removed from high school. He's used to being able to get by on his athleticism. His first two years in the league has been his first real exposure towards learning basketball.

The same thing goes for Marvin Williams. He's also two years removed from high school, but he had one year of college coaching at North Carolina. He's still learning the game as well.

These guys have a lot to learn, and that's why this process is going to take some patience. It's a big task to teach these young guys the game just to get them to the point where they are competent players as well as teaching them how to handle adversity as well as how to handle success.

[exodus]

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in last nights game. He was talking about back when he was in high school and he had a game where he had like 7-8 blocks and I believe it was Lute Olson who told him that once he learns to play defense he will be a really good player and Sean said something like "but I had 7 blocks tonight" and Lute said something like "yeah but good defense means not letting your guy take the shot". That to me says it all about Smoove at this point. He plays horrible man up defense and I dont believe its because he cant do it, but I believe its more that he wants to make the acrobatic play and block the shot from behind like he has done his whole life.

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So I guess Alonzo, Camby and Kirilenko are bad defenders since they block a lot of shots. That is a bunch of nonsense.

While Smoove can miss assignments occassionally and get out of position due to his inexperience, he can actually play pretty good D at the 4. Where he has problems is against quicker players.

The Hawks D is bad in general but without Smoove the D was nonexistent. In the games that Smoove missed against Utah and Denver the Hawks got outscored by 60 points total in the paint. They were just having a layup drill at the Hawks rim.

In all the rest of the games combined the Hawks have been outscored in the paint by a total of 32 points. Smoove also started against Elton Brand in the first Clippers game and held him to his season low. Brand only scored on Smoove 1 on 1 once the whole game, when he was able to post him up 2 feet from the basket and pump faked him off his feet for a 3 point play. Other than that he didn't do anything against Josh.

How many Hawks games has Elliot seen?

[ggp]

Nice post Exodus. Keep them coming.

[Packfill]

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in last nights game. He was talking about back when he was in high school and he had a game where he had like 7-8 blocks and I believe it was Lute Olson who told him that once he learns to play defense he will be a really good player and Sean said something like "but I had 7 blocks tonight" and Lute said something like "yeah but good defense means not letting your guy take the shot". That to me says it all about Smoove at this point. He plays horrible man up defense and I dont believe its because he cant do it, but I believe its more that he wants to make the acrobatic play and block the shot from behind like he has done his whole life.

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So I guess Alonzo, Camby and Kirilenko are bad defenders since they block a lot of shots. That is a bunch of nonsense.

While Smoove can miss assignments occassionally and get out of position due to his inexperience, he can actually play pretty good D at the 4. Where he has problems is against quicker players.

The Hawks D is bad in general but without Smoove the D was nonexistent. In the games that Smoove missed against Utah and Denver the Hawks got outscored by 60 points total in the paint. They were just having a layup drill at the Hawks rim.

In all the rest of the games combined the Hawks have been outscored in the paint by a total of 32 points. Smoove also started against Elton Brand in the first Clippers game and held him to his season low. Brand only scored on Smoove 1 on 1 once the whole game, when he was able to post him up 2 feet from the basket and pump faked him off his feet for a 3 point play. Other than that he didn't do anything against Josh.

How many Hawks games has Elliot seen?

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No offense dude, but that is one of the more ill informed posts I have read on this board. Elliot is dead right. There is absolutely no direct correlation between being a good shotblocker and being a good defender, meaning it is possible to be a good shotblocker without being a good defender. There have been hundreds of players throughout the history of the game that this can be said for.

Josh Smith has the potential to be a good defender, but he isn't there yet.

[exodus]

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No offense dude, but that is one of the more ill informed posts I have read on this board. Elliot is dead right. There is absolutely no direct correlation between being a good shotblocker and being a good defender, meaning it is possible to be a good shotblocker without being a good defender.

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Sure it is possible, but it is unlikely. Anyone who thinks otherwise is clueless.

So the 66 points that Utah scored in the paint, when Josh Smith wasn't there, were just a coincidence? Yeah right. That was the most points the Hawks have given up in the paint by a mile all year, to a team that lost 4 straight games and has a lame offense.

Sure a player can be a shotbocker without being a good defender, but in general guys that block shots are good defenders. Elliot hasn't watched many Hawks games so he doesn't know Smith's game at all.

Josh Smith isn't a complete defender by any means but saying he is a poor one is ignorant. His problem is that he is playing most of his minutes at the 3, where he has a harder time. At the 4 he is much more comfortable. At the 4 he doesn't get beat off the dribble and guys have a hard time backing him down or shooting over him.

Here are the top 20 shotblockers in the league. Tell me

Mr IAMSOWELLINFORMED, how many of these guys are poor defenders?

1 Alonzo Mourning

2 Samuel Dalembert

2 Shaquille O'Neal

4 Marcus Camby

5 Andrei Kirilenko

6 Elton Brand

7 Tim Duncan

8 Eddie Griffin

9 DeSagana Diop

10 Joel Przybilla

11 Pau Gasol

12 Brendan Haywood

13 Jermaine O'Neal

14 Chris Kaman

15 Josh Smith

16 Shawn Marion

17 Adonal Foyle

18 Emeka Okafor

19 Ben Wallace

20 Theo Ratliff

[exodus]

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So the 66 points that Utah scored in the paint,

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Actually that was the Denver game. Pretty lame when you consider that two of their big men, Nene and Kenyon, didn't play.

They gave up "only" 52 points in the paint against Utah.

Elliots high school story doesn't have much relevance to the NBA.

[Lascar78]

Diop and Pryzbilla are also pretty average but it really doesn't matter. How many guys in that top 20 are not big men? Smith and Marion and that's about it. A big man who isn't a good defender is rarely in a position where his man can blow by him. Smith is a poor defender away from the paint because he bites on fakes way too easily. He doesn't have patience and discipline. He has the tools to be a very good defender, but he isn't there yet.

We all know that smith gets 95% of his blocks in one of two ways: helping out on someone else's man, or blocking his man in the paint, because his man is in the post and thinks he can get one over the top of Smith. Neither one is a sign of good defense.

Smith, as of today, is a pretty good defender in the paint, and a pretty damn bad one on the perimeter. He's still learning, but there's no reason to lie about his status.

[Lascar78]

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Actually that was the Denver game. Pretty lame when you consider that two of their big men, Nene and Kenyon, didn't play.

They gave up "only" 52 points in the paint against Utah.

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Camby is having a borderline MVP season. He has been out of his mind all year long.

[exodus]

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Camby is having a borderline MVP season. He has been out of his mind all year long.

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Camby isn't a post player. In fact it seems like his favorite shot is the jumper at the top of the key. And he 24 points total for the game. Even if every one was in the paint, where did the other 42 come from?

It is really amazing to me that anyone could watch the Utah and Denver games and not recognize the value that Smith has defensively. When he is not in there teams can attack the rim at will.

[Lascar78]

I do recognize his value. He scares other teams and makes them think twice about driving it in. That is absolutely true. That does not make him a good defensive player when most players he guards can drive right by him. His shotblocking is an intimidating asset though.

[Packfill]

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No offense dude, but that is one of the more ill informed posts I have read on this board. Elliot is dead right. There is absolutely no direct correlation between being a good shotblocker and being a good defender, meaning it is possible to be a good shotblocker without being a good defender.

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Sure it is possible, but it is unlikely. Anyone who thinks otherwise is clueless.

So the 66 points that Utah scored in the paint, when Josh Smith wasn't there, were just a coincidence? Yeah right. That was the most points the Hawks have given up in the paint by a mile all year, to a team that lost 4 straight games and has a lame offense.

Sure a player can be a shotbocker without being a good defender, but in general guys that block shots are good defenders. Elliot hasn't watched many Hawks games so he doesn't know Smith's game at all.

Josh Smith isn't a complete defender by any means but saying he is a poor one is ignorant. His problem is that he is playing most of his minutes at the 3, where he has a harder time. At the 4 he is much more comfortable. At the 4 he doesn't get beat off the dribble and guys have a hard time backing him down or shooting over him.

Here are the top 20 shotblockers in the league. Tell me

Mr IAMSOWELLINFORMED, how many of these guys are poor defenders?

1 Alonzo Mourning

2 Samuel Dalembert

2 Shaquille O'Neal

4 Marcus Camby

5 Andrei Kirilenko

6 Elton Brand

7 Tim Duncan

8 Eddie Griffin

9 DeSagana Diop

10 Joel Przybilla

11 Pau Gasol

12 Brendan Haywood

13 Jermaine O'Neal

14 Chris Kaman

15 Josh Smith

16 Shawn Marion

17 Adonal Foyle

18 Emeka Okafor

19 Ben Wallace

20 Theo Ratliff

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If blocked shots alone were an indicator of excellent defense Desagana Diop, Adonal Foyle, Theo Ratliff, Eddie Griffin, Greg Ostertag, Rasho Nesterovic and Steven Hunter would be getting alot more playing time then they currently do.

But I am sure you know more about basketball then Sean Elliott.

[exodus]

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an indicator of excellent defense Desagana Diop, Adonal Foyle, Theo Ratliff,

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If it wasn't for their defense those guys wouldn't be in the league.

That list clearly shows that good shotblockers are generally good defenders. Simple law of averages. And in case you missed it Elliots comments were concerning what a coach told him in HIGH SCHOOL. Any guy who is playing forward in the NBA probably blocked a ton of shots in high school. In the pros it isn't that easy.

And I am still waiting for an explanation as to why the Hawks gave up 118 points in the paint in the two games Smith missed. I guess it was just a wild coincidence.

[Lascar78]

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And I am still waiting for an explanation as to why the Hawks gave up 118 points in the paint in the two games Smith missed. I guess it was just a wild coincidence.

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Perhaps you didn't read?

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I do recognize his value. He scares other teams and makes them think twice about driving it in. That is absolutely true. That does not make him a good defensive player when most players he guards can drive right by him. His shotblocking is an intimidating asset though.

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[Packfill]

I am not going to waste my time with it, but I am sure there have been at least two dozen or so games in the past 100 played by the Hawks in which the opposing team had an inordinate number of points in the paint and Josh Smith was in the line-up.

Obviously Josh Smith has more then enough athletic ability to become an elite defender, but he isn't there yet - not by a long shot. He is only 19, so give him some time.

If Josh Smith couldn't jump as high as he does is he in the NBA right now?

[exodus]

I wasn't talking to you Lascar. I wanted to hear it from EDS and of course he hasn't said anything other than he is too lazy to back up his nonsense. He is the one that said:

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He plays horrible man up defense

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which is clearly ridiculous. He may sometimes have trouble guarding quicker 3s and may get confused on positioning but if a man is in front of him with the ball and the guy

doesnt have a major quickness advantage he is unlikely to score.

[exodus]

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If Josh Smith couldn't jump as high as he does is he in the NBA right now?

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If Tim Duncan was 6' he wouldn't be in the NBA either. Lame argument.

[Packfill]

Good defenders usually bring it every night - meaning there is a level of consistency involved in there defensive effort. Josh Smith will uncork a good game now and then but he does not consistently work hard on the defensive end. Again, much if this is attributable to youth although part may be his laissez faire attitude.

[exodus]

How can a player block shots without consistent effort? You must think NBA players are pansies if Smith can block their shots so easily.

You must have him confused with Harrington, who lets guys shoot layups right in his face and doesn't even lift his arms up half the tiem.

[Packfill]

So you are saying Smoove is consistent on a game to game basis?