OK...

[chillzatl]

Because if Marvin had been a pick that you liked, you would be saying the exact same things that everyone who is defending Marvin. But you didn't like the pick, so you ratchet up the criticism on him. I didn't like the pick either. But I recognize the guys skills. He has gotten into some games and came up big for us. He's also gotten some big boards and hit some big shots (relatively speaking) in a few of our recent wins.

But he's a rookie and he's not an overpowering personality. He could very well be another T-mac (in skill, hopefully not personality and heart) in a few years. I'm sure there were many Raptors fans that bashed them for picking him and then bashed Tmac through his rookie season.

As far as the 15-20ppg prediction that BK gave. I don't put much stock in that. BK was put in a position that he HAD to give an answer and he didn't give a good one. I seriously doubt that they drafted Marvin expecting him to peak at 15-20ppg.

[Diesel]

If Marvin were doing what Paul is doing right now.. 90% of the board would call me into question because I criticized Marvin in the offseason.

So you mean to tell me...

I can't criticize Marvin NOW.. Even though he's not showing much of anything??

Is there ever a point when I can be critical of this bad pick? Or should it go unspoken... like Demarr.

Yes, he can shoot a jumpshot.

Yes, he can rebound.

But No, he's not worthy of the #2 pick.

James Worthy with a Jumpshot.... PLEASE...

[Nicholasp27]

the point u are missing is that marvin was NEVER supposed to blow up this season...he was supposed to take time to develop and be a star in a few years

so if he's not a star in a few years, then everyone was wrong

but his play right now, the first half of his first year, does NOT tell us if the pick was right or not

this is about long-term, not this year...we'll look back in 2008 and decide if picking marvin was a good choice or not...not in december 2005

[chillzatl]

Up until the last week, this team hadn't shown us anything either. But now they're playing well and we're all excited about it. Why is marvin any different? He's had moments. He's had some good games and has contributed in a couple of the wins. It's not like he's "showing us nothing".

The point is that you didn't like the pick from teh start, so you aren't going to bother to recognize the incremental improvements he makes. Much like those that expected the team to be better than it was, would not recognize the small improvements we were making in those first 10-15 games.

I won't say that he's not worthy of the #2 pick because history has shown us far too many times that players are not made in their first year, especially 19yo players. #2 pick or not, it's a waste of time and dishonest to over-analyze him after 20 games or so.

I bleieve that if he were on a team that told him "you're the man", he would have significantly better stats than he has right now. But that's not what he's being asked to do here.

[Diesel]

15-20 ppg in his prime..

What kind of Star is that?

[Diesel]

I have expectations from the #2 pick overall.

I guess Historically, the #2 pick has been Sorry...

[chillzatl]

but mine don't involve a 19yo kid who IS NOT lebron James to come in and dominate the game. If, by seasons end, he's putting up 12 and 6, I'll be extremely happy with him. That would put his rookie year above both Tmac and Kobe. HE would also be a clear contributor to whatever we have going here.

As I've said, I think your expectations are purposfully more unrealistic because of your unhappiness with the pick in the first place.

[exodus]

Quote:

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You are also wrong about Josh being ahead of him at this point last year. This time last year, Josh Smith was getting DNP Coaches Decisions. He didn't start getting a lot of playing time till after Antoine Walker was dealt.

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Last December Josh averaged 25 minutes per game, 10 pts, 6 rebounds and 2 blocks.

[Packfill]

Quote:

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but mine don't involve a 19yo kid who IS NOT lebron James to come in and dominate the game.

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Don't forget that Melo kid.

[emeans]

and it will not hurt as bad Diesel. We may be able to get Rondo (Did you see the game against Louisville?) and still have a potential all-star caliber SF after next year.

If you had drafted Paul, you would of had Paul, but no Marvin (Marvin will be very good, even you can see his potential). You may get a Paul clone (Rondo) and Marvin after two years.

Hope that make the pain a lot less for you!!

This team will be scary in two years if we draft Rondo......trust me on this!!

[tmac13]

BK screwed up..We should have drafted Paul..All I heard out of some you Marvin bandwagoneers back a draft time was that you "don't pass over Jordan for Bowie"..It appears we may have done something similar..Marvin will be good, but Paul is special.. Its not a knock on Marvin that Paul is simply a more impactful player..Marvin plays a position where guys are a dime a dozen, but a good pg is much more rare..As far as Rondo goes, he will be a decent player but he is not in the same class as Paul..I am not being a "hindsight is 20-20 guy, go back and check the record. I was all along in the Bogut/Paul camp, simply because championships are much more often won but pgs and centers they they are by tweener forwards..All that being said, give Marvin time and he will be good, but he will never be as good as Paul.

[Packfill]

That's a good question. I think alot of people think Marvin has tremendous upside, which is understandable. That said, alot of people don't appreciate how good Chris Paul is or at least they won't acknowledge it.

[emeans]

Quote:

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As far as Rondo goes, he will be a decent player but he is not in the same class as Paul..

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Let me preface this by saying I am disagreeing with you, howver, what you basing this quote on? How do you know Rondo want be as good as Paul?

The kid looks just as good as Paul looked in college last year in my eyes, maybe even better. I have seen 3 Kentucky games so far this year and he is impressive!!

Let me also say that I am not stuck on saying BK didn't make a mistake. All I am saying is that we have to look at the positives that can come out of us picking Marvin. He will be very good and we will have a chance to pick up Rondo also, who I think will be just as good as Paul on the next level.

[Lascar78]

the great thing about this sh!tty thread is that it's nothing like this sh!tty thread

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

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Bob Neal says that because it is true.

You are also wrong about Josh being ahead of him at this point last year. This time last year, Josh Smith was getting DNP Coaches Decisions. He didn't start getting a lot of playing time till after Antoine Walker was dealt.

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Great, Marvin's development requires us trade another quality player for less than their value and since Josh and he are the same position one of them will likely have to go also. Isn't this the very problem many here highlighted?

For Marvin to become what he can become we have to dump quality players. If losing those quality players without enough in return doesn't make drafting Marvin a net loss, then the much better play of Deron and Paul should.

The mythical BPA argument...even if he's not at a position of need, not at a more valuable/harder to fill position, not really the BPA, and costs you existing talent without enough in return.

KB, get wit it.

W

[Diesel]

I'm a RONDO fan, but I must admit that Rondo is not Paul.

Paul is a leader, a winner, and a guy who can score. Those are three attributes that our team would have benefited from and three attributes that are questionable in Rondo.

Actually, Emeans... That was a very Babcock thing to say.

I remember after Dominique was traded for Manning and Manning went to Phoenix..

Babcock said, well look at the good news, we have money to spend on good free agents. He then proceeded to get Ken Norman and Blair Rassmussen...

[emeans]

Quote:

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Paul is a leader, a winner, and a guy who can score. Those are three attributes that our team would have benefited from and three attributes that are questionable in Rondo.

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Well the 2nd and 3rd points I think Rondo has. Kentucky is definately a winner and Rondo definately can score. I don't know much about his leadership skills, but he looks like a solid leader on the floor in the 3 games I have seen from him this year.

Now about the Babcock thing. The point I am trying to make is that we can't continue crying over the Marvin vs. Paul pick. We probably won't trully know the results of this draft until 2 to 3 years from now. So for now lets hope Marvin becomes a superstar and also get some fresh potential at PG (Rondo) in the process.

[TheDude]

one thing to keep in mind is learning the weaknesses of a new player..once the league's players play with Paul more I think he'll have a little tougher time defensively with them due to his size that we talked about predraft..

once marvin gets it, his naturaly physical skills will help him against that..

[thesheedera]

I'm as big a Marvin fan as you'll ever find online and I can admit that in hindsight, Paul would have been a better choice.

I had always said that if we didn't take Bogut, I hoped we would get Marvin or Paul. Marvin I wanted when thinking with my heart, Paul when thinking with my brain.

If we didn't get Bogut or Paul, and didn't take Marvin, I hoped we could parlay our pick into both a PG and a big man (Felton+Frye or May), as long as we didn't select Deron Williams with the 2nd overall pick in the draft. That would have been hard to swallow for many years to come. Marvin is furstrating right now, but we won't have to wait as long as some believe in order to see that pay off.

I believe he'll be a star (All Star) in his prime, I'm still happy with the pick, but I would be happier had we ended up with Paul and we had an immediate identity for this team. We would be Chris Paul's team, we'd win and lose based on his performance, which looks like a bet i'd be willing to take.

Had we taken Deron, we'd still be the crappy awks looking for an identity. deron is not and never will be an "it" guy like Paul who is constantly the most important man on his team.

I just find it hilarious that around here the guy that bashes Marvin the most in favor of Chris Paul is the same guy that wanted Deron Williams over Chris Paul. And now all of the sudden Diesel's telling everyone how stupid they are for not wanting Chris Paul over Marvin.

Diesel, you've made your point, you don't like Marvin and want to see him fail so you can be proven "right" in an online forum. You would rather have that happen than Marvin become an all star.

But don't forget that you are the same guy who thinks Deron Williams is the next Jason Kidd, and that will forever be your legacy in my mind.

[Diesel]

I'm not going to address Marvin or Paul..

Just you.

You are typical of the Marvin fan base.

You want to say that the League will adjust to Paul at the same time you want to say that Marvin will adjust to the league.

In essence saying that Paul will get worse and Marvin will get better?

What precedent are you citing for this anomaly.

I could have respected your stance better if you would have said that Marvin can get better and leave it there. However, what is this abnormal brain cell that you Marvin fans have that makes you think that somehow, someway, Paul has to get worse. Maybe both Paul and Marvin gets better?? Isn't that a scary thought.

Scary for you because it still doesn't validate picking Marvin over Paul.

Now that THESHEDA has admitted that Paul was probaby the better pick for us.. Maybe it's time to have an intervention with you. Here's my terms stated again.

Marvin would have to be better than Paul, Deron, and Smoove for him to be consider the best pick for us. You can hope and wish that these other guys get worse... or you can aknowledege that Marvin's not there yet. Just do the second.. because if you guys keep trying to suggest that somehow the League will adjust to paul then we might as well say that there will never ever be another allstar from future drafts because the league will always figure them out... Unless of course.. We like them?