Why not Francis

[xman]

Francis for Al, Lue (or Delk or both), and Smith(or Chill - or possibly Salim if they would go for it)

Orlando has Nelson to play pg and Stevenson for Sg - they are only adequate but the point would be to fortify their F spots with a veteran swing F in Al and a younger SF in Smith (or Chill).

It seems like Orlando comes out ahead in the deal, but only a little.

It is worth it to us to get a veteran PG, who would pair interestingly with JJ.

pg - stevie

sg - jj - salim

sf - Smith (or Chill)

pf - Marv

c - to be added, Zsa-zsa

Positives -

The 1-4 spots would run and score - and would be fun to watch.

We wouldn't have the players we need to develop sitting on the bench (at least until the next draft).

Negatives -

We give up a little more than we get - but not much - maybe we get some draft picks added in.

C would still hurt, but that will have to adressed another way anyway.

With this lineup we would start winning more games and would end up out of the top 4 - so we would be giving up gay/aldridge/rondo.

[Duff_Man]

Quote:

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Francis for Al, Lue (or Delk or both), and Smith(or Chill - or possibly Salim if they would go for it)

Orlando has Nelson to play pg and Stevenson for Sg - they are only adequate but the point would be to fortify their F spots with a veteran swing F in Al and a younger SF in Smith (or Chill).

It seems like Orlando comes out ahead in the deal, but only a little.

It is worth it to us to get a veteran PG, who would pair interestingly with JJ.

pg - stevie

sg - jj - salim

sf - Smith (or Chill)

pf - Marv

c - to be added, Zsa-zsa

Positives -

The 1-4 spots would run and score - and would be fun to watch.

We wouldn't have the players we need to develop sitting on the bench (at least until the next draft).

Negatives -

We give up a little more than we get - but not much - maybe we get some draft picks added in.

C would still hurt, but that will have to adressed another way anyway.

With this lineup we would start winning more games and would end up out of the top 4 - so we would be giving up gay/aldridge/rondo.

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No Steve Francis. He's cancerous and not really a winner. I think we do not need a shoot-first guard.

[Lascar78]

yuck yuck yuck. No steve francis. No stephon. They look great on paper or in a one on one workout, but they just don't know how to win and are too concerned with making the highlight reel

[KB21]

Why are people throwing around Josh Smith's name in trade proposals?

[Nicholasp27]

no s**t

smoove is important to this team

[thesheedera]

Josh Smith is our most marketable asset, he ain't going anywhere unless he has fallout with the team/coach/management.

[TheDude]

are you a fan of orlando? we have to give up josh smith and we HAVE to get steve francis?

[xman]

I am a Hawks/Rockets fan.

First - Stevie is not Marbury, he will buy into a team concept if the coach will let him (and he would be good in the community). Marbury is mainly a me first guy - but he is talented - but I agree that any team he is on will be limited.

Second - Stevie is a true talent, if he is used correctly. By correctly, I mean give him at least one shooter on the outside that can move the ball around(JJ), a couple of players that can move and be a threat from the backside (and rebound) and he will dominate the game.

A lot of people have forgotten how good he was in Houston - because his coaches keep trying to force him into a system that does not fit his talents. Atl has players that would mesh with his talents: JJ and Forwards that can slash and rebound (and score when needed).

My personal opinion - From a Team Talent viewpoint, I think he would be perfect.

Lineup:

pg - Francis

sg - JJ

sf - Smith

pf - Marv

C - Zsa-Zsa

[chillzatl]

are you a hawks fan or a magic fan? Because this trade really doesn't help us.

You take away our leading scorer and a go to guy, you also take away one of our strong young talents (either chillz or smooth) and a solid player in lue, for Francis?

Francis is a better rebounding Marbury who, like marbury, has a history of stupid decisions that lead him to go from bad teams to worse teams. Like Marbury, he also has a history of teams getting a lot better after he leaves. I want no part of that.

We don't need a star PG to be a very good team. We need a guy who konws his role, is comfortable with it and is capable of playing within that. Francis plays like he IS the role.

[chillzatl]

cases. I dont' think Francis is that special case. He's had 3 different coaches in his career and you mean to tell me that none of them have used him right? He's put up good stats everywhere he's been. Yet they never really lead to anything. His inability to share the ball with Yao, in order to improve the team, was the reason he was shipped to Orlando in the first place. He could have done everything that T-mac has done in Houston but he didn't want to.

ANd while he might not be as "me first" as Marbury is, he's more than we need.

[exodus]

Quote:

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I dont' think Francis is that special case.

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Actually he is a special case, the special kind that rides the short bus.

[Traceman]

Al AND Smoove for Francis? No way. I could actually see doing Al, Salim and filler (Delk) but I wouldn't give up Al AND Smoove, Chillz or Marvin. I think Francis is overpaid but he is still a good player who proved he could be a part of a playoff team in Houston.

[xman]

I agree that if we could get him for Al, Salim, filler and non-lotto picks, that would be great.

As far as us only needing a "playmaker" pg, I agree that we could get by with that (especially if that was all we could get), but one that scores would work also. The funny thing about that is that the Rockets won when Francis shot more, instead of trying feed the rest of the team. (and as far as not giv ing the ball to Yao - he tried but Yao wasn't ready)

As far as coaches, after Rudy left Francis' FG% and rebounds dropped a lot because he was being forced into a system.

IF everyone agreed that Francis was the solution, we wouldn't be able to get him at a reasonable price. What is reasonable?

Al - a swing forward with strong stats on a weak team looking to cash in on those inflated stats in the offseason (which means he will be overpaid)

A PG salary (it doesn't matter which)

What else: I consider one of our young SFs to be a big price, but maybe worth it. Since Chillz is valued less than Smith, he could go - and would probably be enough to get Orlando to bite.

If we could get it doen for Salim and other filler, that would be great. But, it doesn't seem like enough to me. But, maybe Orlando is down on him.

PLUS - by doing this, we would get our young guys on the court instead of on the bench.

[Packfill]

Heck no on Francis and his bloated contract, bad attitude and lack of real point guard skills.

There is a reason Orlando has been trying to unload him and why they have not been able to find any takers. Orlando realizes that they got absolutely fleeced on the McGrady deal and in no way should the Hawks be the ones that bail them out.

[xman]

I agree that Orlando got the bad end of the deal. But, only because T-Mac is a top 5 player.

Any max contract limits your team - especially if it is not for a top 5 player (Garnett, Kobe(#5 is between kobe and dirk), T-Mac, Dirk, Duncan). But, second tier stud players get them (Oneal, Brand, Pierce, Kidd, etc.) so you teams are stuck.

Francis is a stud(second tier) in his own right. To say he has a bad attitude and a lack of skills is just wrong.

A point guard is going to look more efficient if he has players that can shoot. Francis has never had that. In Houston it was the Francis/Mobley show. Noone on that team could hit the open jumper - thus very few assists - despite the fact that 3 players would collapse on Francis when he drove.

Now, before someone flames away about the teammates he had:

Orlando had nothing to speak of - until Howard starting developing this year.

Yao wasn't very good his first two years - disrupted the whole flow of the offense to involve him.

Before that it was the pot-smoking EGriffin - they kept feeding him the ball and he couldn't do anything with it.

Before that it was an aging Hakeem, who would play half the time.

The only decent teammate he has had was Mobley who was also his best friend. That is why he flipped out when Cuttino was traded.

If you put him on a team and say - we want you and will do what we can to use you to your fullest ability, this guy would give everything he has - and would sacrifice. So, I do not think he would have a bad attitude, if he was wanted. However, if you put him on a bad team and say play within a system that doesn't fit your skills, then blame him when he is unable to lead them to victory - yeah, then he might have a bad attitude - and so would I.

[Packfill]

Francis is a shooting guard (he is not a point guard, watch him play). Joe Johnson and Salim Stoudamire are shooting guards. Why do the Hawks need Francis?

[xman]

Just figured I would re-up this post since Francis is being hyped in another post by Diesel.

Funny thing is his suggestion is getting good opinions and this post got bad ones - the difference being I thought we would need to give up more talent to get Francis. So, I guess the determining factor in whether Francis is good or not - - - is whether we can get him cheap. And if we get him, then he would be worth LeBron and Garnett but we wouldn't do the deal becuase it would hurt our cap situation.