Am I the only one?

[tmac13]

That would be very happy with a Harrington for Watson/Nene deal?..We would be trading a free agent to be tweener to fill the 2 positions we desparately need..We get a defensive minded quality point guard and a young 4/5 with real size that projects very well defensively..We finally start to add depth and fill out positions with this trade..We then let Marvin and Smoove develope their games the rest of the year and we still have a lottery pick to add the BPA..

[chillzatl]

for one, i'm not sold on watson being able to run a team fulltime. he's just never really proven that he can do it. He's also a very poor shooter. I just don't think he would pan out as much as some poeple think he can. Otherwise, he would have done it at some point by now.

Nene I like. At least I like his talent and potential. But he's damaged goods now. I know the doctors can say full recovery all they want. But when a guy tears his knee up, ther's a good chance that he won't be the same player OR he will develop reoccuring problems. I'm not sure I want to risk that.

On the flip side, I like Al. He's a key part of this team and we're finally starting to come together. Yah, he's a free agent. But he's also going to be limited in terms of where he can sign. I think if we improve over the course of teh season, so that he see's we are really getting better and that he is ah uge part of it, he will want to stay.

[Diesel]

I'm sure you wouldn't be the only happy person. Exodus would be happy too.

My problem with the trade is this.

How good is Nene'?

A lot has been made of Nene' but when he got playing time, he didn't prove himself. He's not a great rebounder, he doesn't jump well. He has good hands and he's quick around the basket.. but when Denver depended on him to be their low post scorer/defender... he was disappointing.

But there's something even more bad than his play in Denver. It's his injuries...

Tell me something. How is it that you have a young stud who you have talked with Boston about trading their best player for (Pierce for Nene).. You have told other teams that if you want him the price is going to be high... But when it is time to sign his extension... You don't do it? Why would you do that?

Maybe because Kiki has seen how often one player can be injured.

Nene may not be injured like Penny.. You know, you never really recover from it injury... But it seems he's injured like Camby. You know.. Injured so much that a promising career is not possible.

Watson is not much of a upgrade over Lue.

We passed up getting Watson already... What is different now?

[Diesel]

Your statement about Watson made me remember what Bill Russell and even Emmit says about "The BU".

They both said that the BU always will look good if he gets time... However, most of the time when the BU is put into a full time role, they look bad. Russell was talking about his BU and he said the reason being is because nobody ever plans to play against the BU. They always plan to play against the starter. However, when that BU becomes a starter, he faces defenses he didn't get to face as a BU.

Russell said that to say in Basketball, it's a good thing to have a BU that is the opposite of your starter. I guess that means that if your starter is a ball control Pure PG kind of guy, your BU should be Gilbert Arenas.

[exodus]

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Tell me something. How is it that you have a young stud who you have talked with Boston about trading their best player for (Pierce for Nene).. You have told other teams that if you want him the price is going to be high... But when it is time to sign his extension... You don't do it? Why would you do that?

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Denver has big money invested in Camby and Martin, and Carmelo will want big money. They still need shooting.

And it should be telling that Boston was willing to trade their franchise player for Miller/Nene.

And to say Nene has been disappointing is a stretch. he shoots 50% and gets more steals than anyone on the Hawks roster, not bad for a guy weighing 270. he also led the team in charges taken last year even though he missed a lot of games due to injuries, 30 if i remember right.

You ask why didn't they pursue Watson in the offseason. Could it be, just maybe, that BK paid $70 million to bring in JJ to play point guard?

[chillzatl]

to become a full time starter and live up to it. There are reasons why BU's are BU's on their given teams. It's because they simply aren't good enough to take hte starting job. Sometimes it's understandable, becuase they are playing behind legit stars. But that's more the exception than the rule. Usually BU's are BU's because they simply don't have teh ability to be quality, consistant starters.

[Diesel]

Nene' shoots 50%. Good god, I would hope so. He's a C playing next to a Sf who is a big time scorer..... Most of the time, that's a recipe for shooting over 50%.

Secondly... The only stats that matters for C...

Points, rebounds, FG%, Blocks.

In 32.5 minutes.

11+ ppg. That's mighty low.

6.5 rpg, That's very low for somebody his size. can you say FOYLE.

0.82 bpg.. DAMN Even Foyle does better than this.

Right now, there's nothing pushing me to say that Nene' is better than Zaza.

Lastly...

I wouldn't be surprised if Danny Ainge traded Paul Pierce for a 1982 copy of the Boston Celtics Players guide and PJ Brown. I'm just not sold on Ainge's ability to be a GM. So him thinking about traded for Miller and Nene.. is not surprising. Kiki was probably somewhere laughing during the discussions.

[exodus]

You are quoting Nene's 2nd year stats. How are Chill's stats looking this year? Don't you think 8 pts is pretty lame in 27 minutes?

And of course I keep forgetting that the word defense isn't in your vocabulary.

[Diesel]

I think he's an outstanding example.

Aside from the fouling he was allowed to get away with, he disrupted the 76ers game plan.. because LB never counted on the Lakers not playing DFish... It was really the only thing Phil could do because Iverson was eating everybody up...

But when Lue got his big contract in Wash(?) and Orl and Houston.. He sucked as a starter..

[MoonKnight]

I don't understand the lovefest for Nene or Watson. Nene is an injury prove, poor shotblocking 4/5 tweener. He is at best an average rebounder. Why is this an improvement? I would rather take a chance on drafting Splitter than spending big bucks on Nene. I also don't see how Watson is an improvement over the Ivey/Lue combo. While my instincts have been wrong in the past I have a feeling BK keeps Al around all season and look to deal in the off season if at all. Especially as long as we are playing good ball.

[chillzatl]

he has shown some actual ability. but mostly he is potential. As a rookie and as a 2nd year man, he put up nearly identical stats (11/6) so most GM's and people in the league are going to go nuts over that.

Personally, I think that might be close to his peak. his stats didn't hardly move from his rookie season to his 2nd year. Although he started nearly every game and got a lot more minutes? That's pretty telling. that also doesn't include the possibility that he's a longterm health case.

[chillzatl]

All his hype is a result of how he ended his rookie season and how he played in his 2nd year. He's now on year 4 and nothing has improved. Mostly because of injuries. But with one year gone due to injuries and another ticking away, how can you ignore that?

Also, his stats didn't budge from year 1 to year 2. Despite getting a lot more playing time and a much larger role in the offense. you'd think a player, in his 2nd year, with a much expanded role, would at least increase his rebounding or scoring. That's telling, IMO....

[exodus]

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He is at best an average rebounder. Why is this an improvement? I would rather take a chance on drafting Splitter than spending big bucks on Nene. I also don't see how Watson is an improvement over the Ivey/Lue combo. While my instincts have been wrong in the past

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They are wrong in the present too. You do realize that Nene plays next to one of the best rebounders in the league right? how many boards would Zaza get playing next to Camby?

And Splitter is a joke. He is getting outplayed by Drobniak, yes they are on the same team. And at the combine splitter weight in at 230, hell get pushed around like a rag doll at center.

Ivey isn't working. In case you haven't noticed even though he starts he hardly plays. he can't get the team into the offense.

Watson is one of the top defenders at his position in the league and he was playing at cruch time on a playoff team at Memphis.

[Diesel]

Well, when Chillz gets to be 6'11 270 lbs.. maybe it would matter. The C is not a position of specialty like the Sg position.

However, I think Chillz is actually doing pretty good off the bench as a Sf.

Back to Nene'. Youth has nothing to do with that position.

Try comparing his numbers with Okafors or Howards?

Howard = 14.7ppg, 12.9 rpg (DAYUUM), 1.68bpg, and 49% from the field.

Okafor = 12.9, ppg, 10.9 rpg, 1,92 bpg, and 41% from the field.

An neither player is as big as Nene' is...

In fact, Nene' numbers are right in Line with Al Jefferson's this yr...

How does that sound?

And they are closer in size.

Moreover, i Couldn't use Nene's third year numbers because they sucked.

[macdaddy]

At some point we need some continuity with this team. That trade would tank our season. Its important that we continue to play strong the rest of the season regardless of if we make the playoffs. We need to establish ourselves as an up and coming team and a place where players want to play. Its not about being able to sign a Kobe in free agency its about being able to round out your roster with quality veterans instead of washed up ones or nbdl guys.

Plus I think BK and Woody are committed to seeing the versatility thing through. We're playing big minutes with 4 6'8" guys and a point and its starting to work. Trading Al for nothing will monkey wrench that quick unless MW comes out of nowhere with some game.

[exodus]

Quote:

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Try comparing his numbers with Okafors or Howards?

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Who are they competing with for time? Nobody. Who is taking away their chances for touches/rebounds.

Nene went to a good team and has two quality big men playing next to him.

And 8 ppg from the 6th pick in the draft on a bad team is lame.

[Diesel]

I mean you bring up 2nd yrs... and you want to compare Chillz a SG or Sf.. to a 6'11 270 pf/C?

However, when I bring up 2 2nd yr players... Okafor and Howard.. You want to shut it down.

Like I said.

Nene' = Al Jefferson with Continuous INJURIES.

[exodus]

You do realize that there are two sides to the court right?

I keep forgetting that the word "DEFENSE" is Greek to you.

So you are saying that playing next to one of the top 3 rebounders in the league as well as another max vet has no relevance to Nene's stats?

[Diesel]

Quote:

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So you are saying that playing next to one of the top 3 rebounders in the league as well as another max vet has no relevance to Nene's stats?

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Not when Camby was injured for most of the time that Nene' played as a rookie and nene' stats didn't improve in his second year either.

[chillzatl]

the stats... since then, he's been hurt more than he's played. If his talent and desire matched the stats that he had in his first two years, Denver would have found plenty of opportunities for him. But, injuries aside, they haven't.... why is that? Like I said, nene peaked in his 2nd year. He's a 12/6 player. You play him 40 minutes he might get you 15/8. But you do that and chances are he will be out of the league in 2 years due to injuries.