Does BK have the Moxie that Zeke Has...

[chillzatl]

five years, just googled and to be sure.

[Diesel]

I think Zeke's Term has been filled with good moves and HEAD Scratchers...

Marbury, Penny Hardaway, and Cezary Trybanski from Phoenix for Antonio McDyess, Howard Eisley, Charlie Ward, Maciej Lampe, the rights to Milos Vujanic, two first-round draft picks and cash.

At the time, this was a very good deal for NY. Phoenix at Eisley's contract. The Suns were basically getting Salary Cap room to spend on a star in the offseason. It wound up being QRich & Steve Nash...

Then NY got Nazr for Van Horn. This was a good move.

Then NY got Crawford and JYD for Deke, Tranbanski, Harrington, and Frank Williams.

Again not a bad trade however, the talent that Isiah collected is not fitting.

Then Isiah started messing up.

Malik Rose for Nazr..... HUH???

TT for Antonio Davis/Curry... It remains to be seen.

Kurt Thomas for QRich... I think talentwise, it was a good move but chemistry wise, it sucks.

Signing Jerome James?? What??

Now... Zeke is sitting in a situation where he's hoping somebody will bail him out again. I think had he been patient, he would have gotten rid of Penny/TT and been close to being under the cap.. However, in NY, you can't lose players with nothing coming back in return because they are so far over the cap...

So I predict the next 2 moves for Zeke will be Penny for Rose... (talentwise another good trade but Chemistry wise, it sucks).. And probably James or QRIch to Miami for Walker...

Again.. It would be kinda a head scratcher... but there will be lots of those as long as Marbury is still there.

[Nicholasp27]

u left out their unprotected 1st to get Curry as well

zeke has NOT made many good moves; the ONLY thing he can do competently as a GM is to DRAFT WELL...however, he likes giving up draft picks

he coulda easily gotten ny into a position like atlanta is in now...and then they'd have young talent, cap space AND FAs would be falling over themselves to sign there...but he chose to make bad decisions which were not only bad, but COSTLY

[Diesel]

It's hard to talk about him giving up TT, 1st for Curry/Davis.. when we just gave up 2 1st, Diaw for JJ.

I think when you deal with RFA or UFA (and you have no cap room) you have to do what you have to do. He must feel that Curry is the man. If Curry turns out to be a good C, he would be worth the trade.. However, that's doubtful.

[Nicholasp27]

that's fine..then just post it as such

u saying the move was tt for curry is like me saying we got jj for diaw

it's tt+unprotected 2006 pick for curry

it's diaw+protected pick+la's pick for jj

[KB21]

How is that hard?

Atlanta isn't giving up what could be the #1 overall pick for an underachiever who is lazy and has a heart condition.

The picks given up in the Joe Johnson deal have protection on them. The pick given up to get Eddy Curry does not have a protection on it.

How is it hard to see what the better deal was?

Atlanta got a hardworking guy who doesn't miss games and is a borderline superstar player right now. New York got Eddy Curry.

I know you are trying to do something to glorify Zeke as a GM, but the guy is simply a terrible GM just as he was a terrible head coach.

[Diesel]

I'm not saying that we didn't get the better deal.

I'm saying just like we took a risk, he took a risk. Hell, there were many on this board that wanted Curry and argued how good he could be. I'm glad we didn't get him, but Isiah believed that Curry can be a top C so he did what he could to get him.

Unfortunately when you're over the cap, you have to make deals and Chicago got the best of them in that deal.

Basically a 1st round pick (unprotected) for Curry.

[tmac13]

New York fan and ownership, regardless of what players they have on their team, expect to compete every year..In order to do what BK did here you have to have very patient ownership and a very passive fanbase and media..None of that exists in New York..They would have run BK out on a rail after the 1st awful season, noway he would last for 3 or 4 years doing in New York what he is trying to do here..

[Lascar78]

they are very quick to boo, very quick to put your picture on the front page. But they go to the games regardless (8th in the league right now despite the worst record in the league). As long as ownership is behind him, he would be fine rebuilding 2-3 years. The garden would still be packed, so what's the problem? Either ownership isn't behind him, or he was too afraid of the boos and bad press. He's going to get those right now anyhow because they're horrible AND without direction. It's his fault he did everything wrong

A legend like Zeke could have easily come in and said "let's rebuild and put up with it for a year or two" and been in a mujch better situation right now.

[Duff_Man]

Isaiah is an awful GM, coach, etc. Awful. Emulating anything he ever does is a sure sign your team is about to suck terribly and go broke doing it.

Malik Rose for Nazr? Kurt Thomas for Q? Eddy Curry? Jamal Crawford?

Isaiah is a joke.

[Diesel]

That's part of the job. They can never do it. They have to keep some Marquee players on their team. Like him or not, Marbury is still a top PG. The bottom line is that in NY, you can't have the highest Gate and give them a rebuilt team.

Right now, they have a crappy team... But Isiah has made it interesting. I mean, he has gotten them Larry Brown. He has gotten them Curry. He has picked Frye, Arisa, Robinson, and Lee out of the drafts. I think he's about to trade for Rose.. and he's been promising that he will make a strong run at Lebron.

NY never rebuilds.

[Spiral]

I'm sure he will make a strong run at LeBron as will every other team in the league. If LeBron ever does become a free agent (which I don't see happening, simply because Cleveland can & will offer more), he will have his choice of which max contract to take. There is not a team in the league that wouldn't clear the cap space to sign LeBron if they thought they had a legitimate chance at signing him.

[Lascar78]

Quote:

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"But two league sources said that

Garden owner James Dolan wants Knicks brass to be more "fiscally responsible."

Dolan does not want to add much more to his already league-high payroll for this non-playoff team unless the acquisitions are difference-makers." New York Post

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[Diesel]

I don't disagree that Dolan doesn't want to experiment more.

However, he doesn't want to rebuild either...

Recently, I just read where NY has the highest valuation of all the teams in the league..

Valuations

In the Forbes Listing, not only is NY valued higher than other franchises, but they make more at the gate/endorsements than everybody else. They almost make more profit than the Hawks are worth..

So the Knicks are only interested in one thing.. Becoming a contender again. That means tht they don't have time to rebuild...

[Lascar78]

Quote:

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So the Knicks are only interested in one thing.. Becoming a contender again.

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This means they have to rebuild

[Diesel]

People felt that the Lakers had to rebuild when they had Perkins, Vlade, Campbell, Van Exel, and Jones and Magic had stepped away and Big Sam was going to bolt to Indy..

Welp, the Lakers pulled off a Vlade for Kobe deal.

traded for Ced Ceballos.

Signed Shaq

And they had almost created a dynasty.

Teams with the HIGH valuations rarely rebuild.

The Lakers didn't. Even now, they still have Kobe with at least one other possible Allstar.

The Knicks are looking to re-load and not re-build.

I think Zeke has done a very good job of getting talent with the bad draft picks he has had.

I mean:

Ariza, Frye, Lee, and Robinson is a very good body of work to hang your hat on.

I feel that instead of waiting til he can complete some major trade... Zeke/LB should just start playing the young guys.

Honestly, I would lineup with:

Robinson, Crawford, Ariza, Lee, Frye...

And bring Marbury, Richardson, Curry off the bench...

Until I could find some trades.

[Lascar78]

the key being that they had a superstar in the making in kobe who refused to play anywhere but LA. That is how they did it. That and the Shaq signing. Without Kobe pulling that b!tch move, the Shaq years might be a little different, and they'd be screwed like NY right now.

Who is doing that for NY?

Their main star is Marbury, and he's a broken one. They're claiming Frye and Curry as their building blocks, neither one will be a superstar. Frye will be a pretty nice center but I can't see him dominating or anything like that. Curry has well known issues. They are both decent complimentary pieces. The only way NY could pull a LA is if Bron said I won't play anywhere but NY and got himself moved there (or waited til he was a FA). I doubt it's happening. And if it doesn't, they're screwed. They don't even have a draft pick this year.

Isiah is clueless

EVEN IF they were to try improving things without a complete rebuild, a competent GM could have done much much better than Zeke. He should have known Marbury would not be the focal point of a success story, he should have taken cap into account in some of his moves, he should have had a plan. His only plan is to get the most talent possible regardless of age, salary, or anything like that, and it just doesn't work. And even at that, he has failed

[Diesel]

If the Lakers had traded Vlade to another team with CapSpace...

Say to Minny for Ray Allen (at the time)... The Lakers would have still have the structure to win several championships. I don't think Kobe was the reason why the Lakers were championship contenders. Hell, if they had traded Kobe instead of Eddie Jones, they would have been championship contenders.

The key was and always will be Shaq.

Shaq (as he proved the other night) is still the most dominant force in all of basketball (when he wants to be). Without Shaq... that team could do nothing. With Shaq, any team becomes a contender.. Weather it's the Lakers, or the Magic or the Heat.

[Lascar78]

agreed for the championship years. That was all Shaq

But I was talking about why it is that they are still decent without Shaq and don't need a true re-build to recover. And the reason is Kobe. And they have him because of his coup.

Also Vlade would not have gotten you Ray.

NY has no Kobe, NY has no Shaq. Zeke thought Marbury could be their Kobe, but he's no Kobe.

They're screwed

[Diesel]

Quote:

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Also Vlade would not have gotten you Ray.

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Well, that's debatable...

At the time, Vlade was a good C... He had been to the championships with Magic and he was not old yet.

The history part is that Ray Allen was drafted by Minny and soon traded for Marbury.

The thing to remember is that Minnesota had Terry Porter as PG (who was old but not too old to play).. They also had no real C. At Sg, they had Anthony Peeler... Peeler was the reason they traded Ray Allen for Marbury.. But if they had any kind of Cap Room, they could have traded for Vlade.

Becuase Vlade would have been much more better than Cherokee Parks...

All of those possibilities are scary though:

#1. Porter, Ray Allen, KG, Googs, and Parks.

#2. Porter, Peeler, KG, Googs, and Vlade.

But they did well with:

#3. Marbury, Peeler, KG, Googs, and Parks..

That team also had one of my favorites...

TOM HAMMONDS..

Any Techies remember him?