What does BK have to do to get fired?

[Diesel]

I believe my problem with BK's drafting really arises from my problem with the BK philosophy. Don't get me wrong...

I like the picks of JSmoove, JChillz, Donta, and Salim.

I question Diaw over Howard.

I question Ivey over Duhon.

I question Marvin over Paul or Deron.

and basically what that comes down to is that BK just don't see the need for a PG. He believes that he can get by with a combo guard. However, in basketball History, that has never worked... and it didn't work for a reason. The same reason you don't send troops out without a good General. There has to be one guy who can control the game when everything has broken down from the sideline.

We don't have it and BK ain't trying to get it.

[drzachary]

Quote:

---

I question Diaw over Howard.

---

Wasn't the Diaw pick related to the bind that He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named (aka JT) had us in? Constantly searching for tall PGs? Can't really blame him too much for that. And obviously Diaw was the most talented player on the board.. I mean, he's MAGIC DIAW now for crying out loud!

[Nicholasp27]

did u eat your corndogs yesterday and today?

if u haven't been eating them, then i blame you for the current losing streak

[AHF]

Quote:

---

He believes that he can get by with a combo guard. However, in basketball History, that has never worked...

---

The Bulls did it with a backcourt of Jordan and Harper. Both were combo guards at most - certainly neither was a true point in any sense of the word.

[RAHMOR]

Quote:

---

Every move BK has made has been the correct move.

---

You've taken the early lead in the craziest hawksquawk poster of 2006. If you had posted this mere days ago you could be going for 2 in a row.

[Packfill]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

He believes that he can get by with a combo guard. However, in basketball History, that has never worked...

---

The Bulls did it with a backcourt of Jordan and Harper. Both were combo guards at most - certainly neither was a true point in any sense of the word.

---

Be careful here, just because a scheme worked with the greatest player of all time and a very different offensive philosphy does not mean it will work elsewhere.

[lifelong]

Quote:

---

Passing over Duhon twice was flatout ignorant. I remember wanting Duhon's name to be called out during that draft for Atlanta.

---

i can live with him passing over duhon. *cough* dukesucks *cough*

[rascurrein]

I skipped most of the posts that are in this forum, because we allways end saying the same. The problem is (and i know diesel thinks the same) that BK has an idea of what the team has to be, and Woody has a game plan that not includes the players that BK had selected according to his thoughts. So there are not to many options, there are only 2:

1) We left Woody make his own team according to his preferences about players or;

2) We put BK as the coach of the team with the players that he had selected.

Acknowledging (no se si está bien escrito) this, the solution is that we have to hire a coach that can take a 110% of the players that we have.

[rascurrein]

I make a point clear: when i said that diesel think the same is because this issue has been discussed a few months ago and i remember what he wrote then.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

Be careful here, just because a scheme worked with the greatest player of all time and a very different offensive philosphy does not mean it will work elsewhere.

---

There is another problem with BK's philosophy that I don't think has been discussed. The rule change banning the hand check has really helped the smaller, quicker players. I read the other day, although I am not sure if this is correct, that Tony Parker actually leads the NBA in scoring in the paint.

Just look at the success small guards like Iverson, Nash, Paul, Wade etc are having. Years ago bigger guards could push guys like that around and get away with it. Not the case now.

[Final_quest]

Quote:

---

I like the picks of JSmoove, JChillz, Donta, and Salim.

I question Diaw over Howard.

I question Ivey over Duhon.

I question Marvin over Paul or Deron.

---

Here's the deal. Drafting is not an exact science. Name a GM who has drafted perfectly. Some would say at this point that Diaw is a better pick than Howard. Still a lot of teams passed on both Howard and Duhon.

BK's drafting record is actually pretty solid. Most of his picks turn into solid NBA players, which many GMs cannot claim.

To me he is lacking the Joe Dumars trait of finding diamonds in the rough from the secondary talent pool, and making a solid team out of them.

If BK is fired his predecessor will be in a good position with contracts and potential.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It worked because Harper was a tremendous defensive guard, even in his old age.

Say what you want about the "need" for a PG here. The Hawks problem this year has been their inability to stop ANYBODY down the stretch. Even in the games that we've won, the Hawks were either executing perfectly offensively, or guys on the other team just didn't hit open shots.

The guy the Hawks should've went after, is Antonio Daniels. No, he's not a great PG or a floor general. He's also not a great scorer or a good shooter.

But he is 6-4, a veteran player, can at least handle the ball, play both guard spots, and most importantly . . DEFEND!!

Ask Seattle fans if they miss AD, and the little things he did for the Sonics last year at the guard spots.

And as for you "if we'd taken Chris Paul, we could do this" people, I'll say this once again:

If we had taken Paul in the draft:

- there would be no Salim in ATL

( because the Salim pick was one of those "best player available" picks. It was also a pick we could use, to try at PG. Ronny Turiaf, a PF, would've probably have been the pick. )

- there would be no JJ in ATL

( because we were in the FA market for either a top notch SG [ Ray Allen, Michael Redd ] or a decent center [ Sam Dalembert, Eddy Curry ]. I doubt very serously if this team would've went to the extremes it did to get JJ, if we already had Paul as the future PG of the team . . AND . . we had a MAJOR hole at the C position. The Hawks would've probably thrown max money at Tyson Chandler, and hope the Bulls didn't match. If the Bulls matched, we probably get NOTHING in FAcy. If they didn't match, we would've ended up with a Chandler that is rapidly seeing his skills decline . . seeing how much he is struggling in the Chi right now. )

- there would be no ZaZa in ATL

( because if we draft Turiaf, and land a guy like Curry or Chandler, do the Hawks still throw 4.4 million at a guy like ZaZa? )

- the "need" for Lue would've been less, but he still may have been re-signed.

( but definitely not for 3.5 million a year. And if he doesn't get that kind of deal from ATL, does he go elsewhere? )

- the "need" for a backup SG, since BK was, at the time, convinced that Chill could play SG, would've been somewhat of a high priority

( but most of the big name guys would've been off the board by this time. So that SG would've either been taken at #59 [ and it wouldn't have been Cenk ], or, we would've acquired some outcast from another team. It's not out of the question that the Hawks would've re-acquired a guy like Wesley Person or Luscious Harris . . guys who STILL don't currently have a team. And there is a slight chance that maybe by late September, the Hawks may have given a guy like Spreewell a chance to be here. But I doubt it )

So these are your CHRIS PAUL led Hawks:

C - Chandler

F - Harrington

F - Smoove

G - Chill

G - Paul

G - Ivey

G - Delk

G - Person

F - Diaw

F - Turiaf

C - Collier ( R.I.P.)

# 59 pick

Like this team now? How many games could they win? Because there's no way that Salim, ZaZa, and even JJ would be here now.

[Ralph]

So who is right, Billy Knight or Mike Woodson? I do not believe that there is this strife that you describe between Billy and Mike because when Mike's job was on the line, it was Billy who spoke up for him. That tells me that Billy Knight must be in accordance with what is going on when the Hawks play.

Maybe you fire both guys and make Dominique Wilkins the GM and Tubby Smith the coach.

[gsuteke]

Quote:

---

It worked because Harper was a tremendous defensive guard, even in his old age.

Say what you want about the "need" for a PG here. The Hawks problem this year has been their inability to stop ANYBODY down the stretch. Even in the games that we've won, the Hawks were either executing perfectly offensively, or guys on the other team just didn't hit open shots.

The guy the Hawks should've went after, is Antonio Daniels. No, he's not a great PG or a floor general. He's also not a great scorer or a good shooter.

But he is 6-4, a veteran player, can at least handle the ball, play both guard spots, and most importantly . . DEFEND!!

Ask Seattle fans if they miss AD, and the little things he did for the Sonics last year at the guard spots.

And as for you "if we'd taken Chris Paul, we could do this" people, I'll say this once again:

If we had taken Paul in the draft:

- there would be no Salim in ATL

( because the Salim pick was one of those "best player available" picks. It was also a pick we could use, to try at PG. Ronny Turiaf, a PF, would've probably have been the pick. )

- there would be no JJ in ATL

( because we were in the FA market for either a top notch SG [ Ray Allen, Michael Redd ] or a decent center [ Sam Dalembert, Eddy Curry ]. I doubt very serously if this team would've went to the extremes it did to get JJ, if we already had Paul as the future PG of the team . . AND . . we had a MAJOR hole at the C position. The Hawks would've probably thrown max money at Tyson Chandler, and hope the Bulls didn't match. If the Bulls matched, we probably get NOTHING in FAcy. If they didn't match, we would've ended up with a Chandler that is rapidly seeing his skills decline . . seeing how much he is struggling in the Chi right now. )

- there would be no ZaZa in ATL

( because if we draft Turiaf, and land a guy like Curry or Chandler, do the Hawks

still

throw 4.4 million at a guy like ZaZa? )

- the "need" for Lue would've been less, but he still may have been re-signed.

( but definitely not for 3.5 million a year. And if he doesn't get that kind of deal from ATL, does he go elsewhere? )

- the "need" for a backup SG, since BK was, at the time, convinced that Chill could play SG, would've been somewhat of a high priority

( but most of the big name guys would've been off the board by this time. So that SG would've either been taken at #59 [ and it wouldn't have been Cenk ], or, we would've acquired some outcast from another team. It's not out of the question that the Hawks would've re-acquired a guy like Wesley Person or Luscious Harris . . guys who STILL don't currently have a team. And there is a slight chance that maybe by late September, the Hawks may have given a guy like Spreewell a chance to be here. But I doubt it )

So these are your CHRIS PAUL led Hawks:

C - Chandler

F - Harrington

F - Smoove

G - Chill

G - Paul

G - Ivey

G - Delk

G - Person

F - Diaw

F - Turiaf

C - Collier ( R.I.P.)

# 59 pick

Like this team now? How many games could they win? Because there's no way that Salim, ZaZa, and even JJ would be here now.

---

that is a better team than Paul currently has in NO, OK city, whatever. plus we'd have those draft picks.

[Packfill]

Quote:

---

It worked because Harper was a tremendous defensive guard, even in his old age.

Say what you want about the "need" for a PG here. The Hawks problem this year has been their inability to stop ANYBODY down the stretch. Even in the games that we've won, the Hawks were either executing perfectly offensively, or guys on the other team just didn't hit open shots.

The guy the Hawks should've went after, is Antonio Daniels. No, he's not a great PG or a floor general. He's also not a great scorer or a good shooter.

But he is 6-4, a veteran player, can at least handle the ball, play both guard spots, and most importantly . . DEFEND!!

Ask Seattle fans if they miss AD, and the little things he did for the Sonics last year at the guard spots.

And as for you "if we'd taken Chris Paul, we could do this" people, I'll say this once again:

If we had taken Paul in the draft:

- there would be no Salim in ATL

( because the Salim pick was one of those "best player available" picks. It was also a pick we could use, to try at PG. Ronny Turiaf, a PF, would've probably have been the pick. )

- there would be no JJ in ATL

( because we were in the FA market for either a top notch SG [ Ray Allen, Michael Redd ] or a decent center [ Sam Dalembert, Eddy Curry ]. I doubt very serously if this team would've went to the extremes it did to get JJ, if we already had Paul as the future PG of the team . . AND . . we had a MAJOR hole at the C position. The Hawks would've probably thrown max money at Tyson Chandler, and hope the Bulls didn't match. If the Bulls matched, we probably get NOTHING in FAcy. If they didn't match, we would've ended up with a Chandler that is rapidly seeing his skills decline . . seeing how much he is struggling in the Chi right now. )

- there would be no ZaZa in ATL

( because if we draft Turiaf, and land a guy like Curry or Chandler, do the Hawks

still

throw 4.4 million at a guy like ZaZa? )

- the "need" for Lue would've been less, but he still may have been re-signed.

( but definitely not for 3.5 million a year. And if he doesn't get that kind of deal from ATL, does he go elsewhere? )

- the "need" for a backup SG, since BK was, at the time, convinced that Chill could play SG, would've been somewhat of a high priority

( but most of the big name guys would've been off the board by this time. So that SG would've either been taken at #59 [ and it wouldn't have been Cenk ], or, we would've acquired some outcast from another team. It's not out of the question that the Hawks would've re-acquired a guy like Wesley Person or Luscious Harris . . guys who STILL don't currently have a team. And there is a slight chance that maybe by late September, the Hawks may have given a guy like Spreewell a chance to be here. But I doubt it )

So these are your CHRIS PAUL led Hawks:

C - Chandler

F - Harrington

F - Smoove

G - Chill

G - Paul

G - Ivey

G - Delk

G - Person

F - Diaw

F - Turiaf

C - Collier ( R.I.P.)

# 59 pick

Like this team now? How many games could they win? Because there's no way that Salim, ZaZa, and even JJ would be here now.

---

This is an assinine post. You have no way of knowing what would or would not have happened if Paul was drafted.

Besides, like someone else mentioned, that is a better team than Paul has now and his less talented team has won more games then the Hawks.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

This is an assinine post. You have no way of knowing what would or would not have happened if Paul was drafted.

Besides, like someone else mentioned, that is a better team than Paul has now and his less talented team has won more games then the Hawks.

---

Agreed. Talk about a huge amount of assumptions. The premise behind that post is that Knight won't take the player he values highest because he already took someone at that same position. Does this guy realize Knight drafted Chills and Smoove in the same year and then drafted Marvin Williams the next year? Knight has definitely stuck by his guns and taken the guys he wanted to take regardless of perceived depth at a position so the assumption that everything would have changed isn't supported by anything other than rank speculation.

[Guest Walter]

Assuming you buy into the BPA argument and believe that it ALWAYS overides skill, skill variety, positions, team needs, realizing the "P" confusingly may stand for "prospect" or "player", the Childress example was OBVIOUSLY (at the time and now) an example of NOT selecting the best player (Deng) or prospect (Iggy or Jefferson). THAT's why I question BK's selection of Marvin over better players (and IMO prospects) at the Pg position on so many levels and I question his ability to build a TEAM. Marvin was most certainly not the best "player" available and IMO not the best "prospect" available.

Marvin causes more problems for this team than his above average athleticism, modest skill, and potential suggest is worth it. He doesn't bring anything to the team we don't already have save a slightly better shooting (though less athletic than Josh Smith 'tweener), he plays the same "position" as one of our best players and our best prospects, he doesn't make his teamates markedly better if better at all (a positional issue mostly), he seems to have no leadership abilities, he seems light years away from reaching his potential, and his attitude and ability suggest he can be nothing more than a role playing very good player (alah Childress).

Moreover, the other players in the draft would have not only solved much of our talent, potential log jam, but brought the skills, leadership, and talent to make their teamates MUCH better, something our youngin's absolutely NEED.

BK's philosophy of 6'8" players just about everywhere is wrong-headed and his drafting track record while better than Babcock, may not be relatively better given where they respectively drafted and for the benefit of building a team. His decision to gut the team was mostly correct but an obvious one and one done haphazardly (i.e. bye-Pryz, Dickau both decent role players). Some good moves and finds, but even they are misleading (i.e. JJ as Pg). ONe very lame coaching decision. I think he has one more offseason to right this ship and as it looks the talent is not there to do it. No superstar Pg prospects (with both Deron and Paul better than those available this year, unless maybe Sergio Garcia from overseas joins the draft).

In short, I don't think BK is a bad GM. However, I think he has fallen further into proving his 6'8" long, athletic, versatile theory and reinventing history rather than weighing all the facets of a player, including team needs, and focusing upon building a winning TEAM with leadership, a variety of skill sets, and talented players at the definate positions of C and Pg.

W

[Nicholasp27]

the core of our team

?/ivey

jj/slim

marvin/chill

smoove/?

zaza/andersen

we do NOT have a logjam...we are simply 2 pieces and more time to improve/gel away from being a good team

a starting pg and a backup big man who can defend is all that we need (dre/nene? rondo/nene? dre/aldridge? etc)

once al is traded, we have no logjam...maybe u can say donta will have trouble getting much pt or something

yes we need a pg...but we also needed more talent and depth at forward...now THIS summer we should not select a sf or sg...either a defensive big or a true pg should be our selection...but last summer we were only starting year 2 of rebuilding and were not yet in the stage of aquiring people based on position

[Packfill]

Want are the chances BK drafts a point guard or big man? The build through the draft strategy is getting risky because the Hawks areas of need are not available in large quantities in the draft. Other then Rondo or Aldridge there are no clear cut difference makers at the point or big man positions.

We should have taken a point guard when available as we can get a swingman anytime.

[Lascar78]

Quote:

---

Other then Rondo or Aldridge there are no clear cut difference makers at the point or big man positions.

---

At this point in time, I am loving our odds of having a top 2 pick ... and that's all it takes to get one of yoru top 2 choices