Set Rotation strikes again....

[Packfill]

Al turns the ball over less then JJ and handles the ball almost as much. Al may not be a great defender but no one on the Hawks is. JJ has a reputation and talent to be a good defender, but he does not seem to be giving that effort every night.

Maybe the coach can't motivate these guys to bust their humps, I don't know. Neither Paul Pierce or Ricky Davis are great defenders but they locked down on the Hawks last night.

[Lascar78]

agreed. Last night wasn't proof that Woody has a set rotation that is problematic. It was, however, proof that a year and a half in, Woody is still a pretty damn clueless coach. I'm sure he will someday make a good coach, but we need a veteran coach in here next year.

[exodus]

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Al turns the ball over less then JJ and handles the ball almost as much.

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JJ averages 3.09 turnovers per game, Al averages 3.0. Al handles the ball much less than JJ. JJ actually spends a lot of minutes playing the point when Ivey or Salim are in the game.

Smith and JJ are both solid defenders. In fact Smith had 3 blocks and 3 steals before being benched in the 4th. His D has saved victories this year and could have saved them last night.

[exodus]

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Most of the guys we have that can score are guys who cannot create for themselves.

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They averaged 100 ppg last April when Al wasn't playing and JJ, Marvin, Salim and Zaza weren't here. Al only creates for himself.

All the Hawks have to do is move the ball and they will get plenty of good looks. Unfortunatley Al is a ball stopper and kills the ball movement with his one on one play. When he is on and scores 30 it looks good but they can't win consistently that way.

And getting 4 rebounds in 43 minutes is pathetic. Marvin got 5 rebounds in less than half the time.

[Packfill]

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Most of the guys we have that can score are guys who cannot create for themselves.

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They averaged 100 ppg last April when Al wasn't playing and JJ, Marvin, Salim and Zaza weren't here. Al only creates for himself.

All the Hawks have to do is move the ball and they will get plenty of good looks. Unfortunatley Al is a ball stopper and kills the ball movement with his one on one play. When he is on and scores 30 it looks good but they can't win consistently that way.

And getting 4 rebounds in 43 minutes is pathetic. Marvin got 5 rebounds in less than half the time.

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Al is as guilty of killing ball movement as JJ and Lue. Equal blame. If the Hawks had a real point guard then it would be a moot point.

[exodus]

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Al is as guilty of killing ball movement as JJ and Lue. Equal blame. If the Hawks had a real point guard then it would be a moot point.

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Lue only plays half the game, so who is killing the ball movement in the other half?

In the last 4 games Lue has 20 assists and 2 turnovers. Is that real enough for you?

By comparison Al, playing much heavier minutes, has 10 assists and 14 turnovers.

[Duff_Man]

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Al turns the ball over less then JJ and handles the ball almost as much.

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JJ averages 3.09 turnovers per game, Al averages 3.0. Al handles the ball much less than JJ. JJ actually spends a lot of minutes playing the point when Ivey or Salim are in the game.

Smith and JJ are both solid defenders. In fact Smith had 3 blocks and 3 steals before being benched in the 4th. His D has saved victories this year and could have saved them last night.

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I am also in this camp. Leaving Josh Smith on the bench last night was pure stupidity. I don't even care if you want him off the floor at the very end of the game, but at least give him some 4th quarter minutes.

We saw this in a game before. I think Josh Smith had about 17 points and Woody pulled him and banished him. last night, Smith has 10 pts, and his last basket was (if I remember correctly) a dunk that got him and everyone all fired up. Woody pulled him shortly after for good. It makes no sense to me whatsoever why you would take out the hot hands for some strange reason. And I also agree that JJ and Smith are our two best defensive players, and needed to be out there together last night in the 4th.

It reminds me of when someone asked Dan Reeves why he didn't play TJ Duckett for an entire half once and his reply was something along the lines of "just forgot to play him".

[Packfill]

Lue sucks, the sooner you accept that the easier it will be. Again, Al handles the ball a great deal because the team needs his playmaking and shotmaking skills. He has a lot of turnovers as a result. I guarantee you can find a 4 game stretch for Duncan, Melo, Dirk, etc. in which turnovers exceed assists.

[exodus]

So 20 assits and 2 turnovers along with 50% shooting sucks? That makes sense.

Al turns over way too much and is a lousy defender. His occassional big offensive games don't change that. He is currently 14th in the league in turnovers and he has only 7 blocks on the season. I wouldn't mind the lack of blocks if he played good position D but that clearly isn't the case.

[macdaddy]

Al and JJ are by far our best players. When they're in the game they make us better regardless of whether they are scoring because they have to be respected. A front court of Smoove, Marvin, ZaZa would be a nightmare offensively in the short term.

Different subject: I thought Salim looked good at the point on several possessions.

[Traceman]

I'm not indicting Lue at all. I think he is doing EXACTLY what BK brought him back to do. But, comparing his A/TO ratio to Al's is like comparing Earl Watson's A/TO ratio to K-Mart's.

[exodus]

This is EDS's quote:

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Al is as guilty of killing ball movement as JJ and Lue. Equal blame. If the Hawks had a real point guard then it would be a moot point.

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He was trying to compare Al to Lue so I pointed out how much of a joke it was. Lue plays way fewer minutes and isn't anywhere near as turnover prone as Al. And a selfish pg won't have 20 assits and only 2 turnovers in 4 games while shooting well.

Remember that Lue was the pg last year when JJ, Marvin, Salim and Zaza weren't here and Al was hobbling. Lue was the one setting up the Joshs for their big scoring games. It seems like I am the only one that remembers that.

[Packfill]

I stand by my comments.

If Lue was any good he would be starting on one of his three or four previous teams. He is an adequate back-up, that's it. Ivey hasn't had a turnover in weeks - does that make him a good player?

Al is far and away one of the Hawks two best players - why the hate?

[exodus]

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I stand by my comments.

If Lue was any good he would be starting on one of his three or four previous teams. He is an adequate back-up, that's it. Ivey hasn't had a turnover in weeks - does that make him a good player?

Al is far and away one of the Hawks two best players - why the hate?

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Lue's weak D is the reason he is a career backup. Believe me I would love for the Hawks to get a pg who could take Lue's minutes but right now they don't have one.

Remember I was the one lobbying for Watson.

Harrington is a lousy defender and turns it over too much. He is a ufa who could bring in someone through a trade who could plug one of the gaps in the Hawks lineup.

Also the Hawks have several young, talented forwards who aren't getting enough time and who could, i believe, replace his offense rather quickly as well as playing better D.

We already know the Hawks aren't going anywhere with Al. It is time to see what they can do without him. They can't fall any farther than they already are. They are in last place and two games behind their nearest competitor in the east.

[Packfill]

Dude, the whole team turns the ball over too much - JJ, Al, Salim and Zaza (our center!!!!) are all in the top 25 in turnovers per 48 minutes.

So the problem is systemic. Either we need a new system or a new point guard. That is the root of the problem. Lue's shortcoming as a point guard, in addition to his 8th grade level defense, is that he does not have the ability to get teammates the ball in a position where they can score with a low chance of a turnover. So what if he doesn't turn it over or gets a few assists because someone else hit a jumpshot, he doesn't do enough to warrant serious playing time.

[exodus]

So those guys turn it over because of Lue?

Zaza just has poor hands, which the Bucks obviously were aware of when they let him walk. His 41% shooting is at least in part because of his hands.

Harrington turns it over too much because he is regularly driving into traffic forcing up shots over taller players and getting stripped. He also forces bad passes.

JJ turns it over because he simply has the ball in his hands too much. He isn't a pg but plays the position when Lue isn't in the game.

Salim is just turnover prone in general.

Take Lue off the team and they would be turning it over much more than 16 times a game, as evidenced by how they struggle handling the ball when he sits.

Again you must not have watched any of the games last year when the Joshs' were averaging 15 ppg the last 3 months of the season even though they had no perimeter game. Who do you think was setting them up?

[Diesel]

Exodus looks at the game with blinders. He only looks for mistakes in Al's game. Hell, as you have stated and I said previously, everybody has a role in the turnovers...top to bottom. Al handles the ball just as much as JJ and JJ has more turnovers.

The point is that we need an experienced PG to make this concotion of a team work!

Howard Eisley should be called in.

If Woody doesn't play him, then Woody's stay must be evaluated.

[Packfill]

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Again you must not have watched any of the games last year when the Joshs' were averaging 15 ppg the last 3 months of the season even though they had no perimeter game. Who do you think was setting them up?

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How come he can't do it this year then?

[Packfill]

Al is only driving into traffic because the offense is completely stagnant. I blame the coach or the point guard for not getting the team into a decent set.

[exodus]

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Al is only driving into traffic because the offense is completely stagnant. I blame the coach or the point guard for not getting the team into a decent set.

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You got it backwards. The offense becomes stagnant when he drives into traffic and doesn't kick it out.