Going off the assumption that Al will sign for 10m

[Nicholasp27]

going off that assumption, what is our best move

please do not discuss keeping al for

i see 4 options

1) resign him for 10mil/year

2) renounce his rights and just let him go

3) snt him this summer

4) trade him before the deadline

i don't like options 1/2, so which of 3/4 will give us the most value for al

snt:

i'm still waiting on a list of teams who will have 5+mil in capspace AND want to snt for al...these are the only teams that we can snt al to and not have to take back all 10mil of al's salary...if we snt him to one of these teams we can take just talent/picks and not have to take on big expiring contracts that may take us outta the nene/pryz/bigben/?? running...if anybody has such a list, please post

otherwise, what can teams like ny, etc that will want al at 10mil/year offer us? what 10mil in salary would u take from ny that they'd also give us (ie no frye)? what about other teams?

let's try to figure out some realistic SNT opps to see how valuable a SNT of al can be

trade:

we should do this if we don't think we will resign him and we think we can get back more now than in a snt...trading him now lets us get back expirings that'll let us have cap space this summer so we have flexibility in going after what we want this summer...but what can it bring us back? if we could trade al for a defensive true pg before the deadline, then that would be awesome...but what team would do that? portland has 3 good pgs, but no need for al (3way?)...denver has 3 good pgs, but we only want dre and they wanna keep him for a possible pierce trade...so what realistic trades do u think we could do before the deadline

also, do you dislike option 1 (keeping him at 10mil/year) so much that you'd rather trade him for a pick like we did with walker? or would u choose option 1 over getting just a pick?

Vote based on assumption that he gets 10mil/year with whomever signs him

[macdaddy]

I was not a fan of Al's last year. He looked like he should be coming off the bench. But he has improved from last year to this year. He can score inside and out and that's good to have.

I think Al wants to leave and will do a SNT this summer unless something great comes along.

[Diesel]

If Al was willing to re-sign with us at our price 9-10 (which is fair)... with the stipulation, that if we trade him we trade him to a good situation...

Would you resign him?

Or would you rather trade Al for a mid first round pick or a late lottery pick or a player like Maggette?

[DominiqueWilkins]

Al has improved his level of play and it's clear to others around the league. He still didn't improve his skills at defending, but on paper it appears like he's doing things on defense, until you actually want him during the games, and see that he's far from being a great defender.

I can only hope he's willing to do a s-n-t, but I would hope we could trade him before the deadline. I really want to see what our team can do without Al having such a big role on this team, but we still need size, and BK needs to fix that problem during the off season.

[DominiqueWilkins]

If we had a spot for Corey I would be all for adding him, but we don't, and the Clippers would never take Al straight up for him. Corey had a very good salary that ranges from 6-9 million, but we stay away from him due to not having a spot.

9-10 million a year for Al Harrington isn't fair and explain why you think it is. He doesn't defend, he's a team that lacks talent, and he's lucky he has the coaching staff behind him. Al reminds me of Lue last season when he kept putting up high numbers on offense and instantly fans started to think we should resign Lue at whatever cost. (Boy were they wrong)

[Packfill]

If we don't sign Al this off-season what are teh Hawks going to spend the money on. I am not lobbying to resign Al because of the duplication on the roster (though I like Al as a player and would be all for keeping him if BK did not draft Marvin).

Nene may get $8+ this off-season but none of the other free agents the Hawks should be interested in (i.e., Pryz, Ely, other big man) are going to get more then $5 million.

If the Hawks don't use the money this off-season, then don't they have to start worrying about signing their own players next off-season and start saving money for big extensions for Smoove, Marvin, etc.?

[Lascar78]

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none of the other free agents the Hawks should be interested in (i.e., Pryz, Ely, other big man) are going to get more then $5 million.

If the Hawks don't use the money this off-season, then don't they have to start worrying about signing their own players next off-season and start saving money for big extensions for Smoove, Marvin, etc.?

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First of all a guy like Pryz is going to get more than 5 million

Second, you shouldn't spend big bucks just because we might not be able to the next year. Horrible idea. That's how you get crippled by the cap because your situation will be so much worse the next year. Yes we will have to re-sign our own players, but we can sign free agents before that, and then go over the cap to keep our own guys.

The focus should be getting people that make sense at a price that makes sense, not spending big bucks on a guy who isn't worth it just because we have cap room. That's how GM's get in big, big trouble. Luckily BK has shown that he is willing to be patient and not overpay for guys who aren't worth it.

[Nicholasp27]

we don't have to spend all of the money this summer

we can spend it NEXT summer when there are more and better FAs

07/08 is when we have to resign chill/smoove...so we have this summer AND next summer to use our space

[Final_quest]

It's difficult to come up with a realistic trade scenario for Al because we don't have the same information a GM has. Also if we wait to the summer to sign Al we can't be sure which teams will have space. We know Chicago, Charlotte, and New Orleans will, but other teams could make moves at the trading deadline or on draft day to free up space.

Truthfully I do not enjoy fantasizing about who we might be able to trade Al for, I just hope it will be for something good. I can say that his value might be highest in the offseason. GM's are more willing to deal and sign players to ridiculous contracts while giving away first round picks like they are garbage.

[Packfill]

I realize we don't need to spend it this off-season - which seems impossible anyway given the dearth of available big men.

Realistically, I see Nene as the Hawks best shot to get a legit big, assuming you consider him legit. Pryz, because of his past history here, I doubt he signs unless we way overspend. That leaves Ely or someone like him who are really back-ups.

Maybe there will be more available the following off-season, but going through another season without a point guard or big man will be unconsiconable.

Maybe they can get one in the draft, but those guys will be a few years away from contributing (unless the pick is Sheldon Williams, who does not seem like a BK guy).

[Lascar78]

agreed on all fronts. The information we get is incomplete and sometimes inaccurate. I will say this, BK seems to have done well in most signings and most trades. In most cases, he gets a good deal. And I do think Al will be more valuable come the summer. Teams are willing to give up the goods for a player who is signed for 5 years much more easily than for a player who could leave them at the end of the season. We just have to trust that BK will get a player who fits. He knows this team is incomplete by a long shot. He knows we need bigs and more bigs. He doesn't seem to know we need a PG, but if he can really adress our inside game, I'll be happy

[Lascar78]

yeah but is not that unlikely that we can trade Al for a big, and then draft a big and come out with 2 bigs.

Maybe we can sign Nene. Maybe we can ship Al for Gadzuric+Williams. There are available bigs out there to be had for Al Harrington I think. Maybe not superstars, but oh well. If we came Nene or Gadzuric PLUS Aldrdidge or Bargnani or Splitter, our inside game would already look much, much, much better.

I think we'd still need a PG, but we would be so much better than this year even though Al's offense would be gone

[Lascar78]

even without getting a PG (which I don't like but oh well), if we start next year with

Lue/Ivey

JJ/Salim

Marvin/Childress

Smith/Pachulia

Aldridge/Gadzuric

I like our chances of winning much, much better, with most players able to shift over by one position as the rotations change

Or you could have

Lue/Ivey

JJ/Salim

Marvin/Childress

Nene/Smith

Aldridge/Pachulia

You could change the starting PF depending on the matchup

No more getting abused night in and night out on a nightly basis. Lue is the only defensive liability left and he doesn't need to play a huge amount of minutes and there are big men to help cover his man when he gets by. And we still have enough offense to win games. The squad would certainly much more balanced than our current jumpshot-only, no-defense, no-bigs team

[exodus]

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we don't have to spend all of the money this summer

we can spend it NEXT summer when there are more and better FAs

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Exactly. Be selective, because once they sign on the dotted line you are stuck with them. And there are many many many more bad deals signed than good ones.

Think Utah is glad they signed Boozer?

Is Denver glad they signed Martin?

Is Dallas glad they signed Dampier? and on and on

[macdaddy]

If he's willing to resign I would definitely resign him. I like Al. I'd only trade him if a great deal came along for a center, but that ain't happening. I just feel like he doesn't really want to be here so it'll be SNT.

[macdaddy]

No. There's a big difference between Lue and Harrington. Lue can hit shots, but Al can create, shoot from long range, mid range over people, take his man off the dribble, post up most players, and get to the line.

The best quote about Al is he's too big for 3s to handle and too quick for 4s.

He's big enough to play defense decently if he's on a good defensive team. Not every player is going to be great all around, but Al brings things that aren't easy to find: size, quickness, scoring.

[Lascar78]

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The best quote about Al is he's too big for 3s to handle and too quick for 4s.

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yes. But he is also too slow to guard 3s and too weak to guard 4s.

Again, I would keep Al for cheap, but he'll want a big deal and some team will give it to him. Let's SNT for a piece that fits better and move on

[Seano]

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Is Dallas glad they signed Dampier? and on and on

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Not like that wasn't Dallas' fault. It was entirely predictable. Let's see, you've got a player who's been a lazy, underacheiving ball of suck for years- had all the physical tools in the world to be a success, but was completely lacking in motivation, heart, and desire. Then all of a sudden in his 9th season he goes nuts, actually plays hard and sets career highs in points and smashes his previous career high in rebounds by almost 5 boards per game- averaging a double double for the season while playing decent defense.

What made that 9th year so great? Can you say contract year? I mean that was so totally freaking obvious and you'd have to be a fool to have not seen that coming, as well as the inevitable aftermath....that being that after he secured that big money deal, he had no incentive to play hard any longer, and so he went back to being a lazy, underacheiving ball of suck. And now for his 9 million this year, he's not even a starting player. And for the next 5 seasons as his salary balloons up to over 13 million per and he's 35 years old, he probably won't be starting either.

Mark Cuban is generally pretty sharp, but that was just an unconscionable deal that really even an idiot should have seen coming.

[Diesel]

When your whole team plays bad defense, then everybody looks bad and your bad defenders look worse.

For example.

Steve Kerr was a horrible defensive player... UNTIL he went to Chicago. When he got to Chicago, they found out that he can stay in front of his man and make it hard for his man to shoot.

Another example...

Mario Ellie. All while Ellie was in Houston, the word on him was that he didn't try on defense. He went to San Antonio where he was backed up by Duncan and Robinson and became clutch on offense and defense.

Even Big Dog.

Big Dog was ridiculed here. However, last year in the playoffs/Championship, Big Dog became a defensive stopper in one of the finals game...

Check this out.. And it rang true:

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Robinson is not known for his defense, but Popovich said they can work around that.

"The good thing is that he's intelligent and he understands the game," Popovich said. "He'll pick up the team-defense concept, so he won't have to be the best individual defender."

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As Macdaddy said, there are some things about Al's game that you just can't find... Namely, an inside/outside game offensively... A lot of you tried to compare Al to Reef, but when has Reef ever been good from outside or fast enough to take a four off the dribble??

We try to compensate for a badly coached defense by getting rid of good offensive players (WITHOUT equal compensation).. That's welfare.

[Packfill]

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When your whole team plays bad defense, then everybody looks bad and your bad defenders look worse.

For example.

Steve Kerr was a horrible defensive player... UNTIL he went to Chicago. When he got to Chicago, they found out that he can stay in front of his man and make it hard for his man to shoot.

Another example...

Mario Ellie. All while Ellie was in Houston, the word on him was that he didn't try on defense. He went to San Antonio where he was backed up by Duncan and Robinson and became clutch on offense and defense.

Even Big Dog.

Big Dog was ridiculed here. However, last year in the playoffs/Championship, Big Dog became a defensive stopper in one of the finals game...

Check this out.. And it rang true:

Quote:

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Robinson is not known for his defense, but Popovich said they can work around that.

"The good thing is that he's intelligent and he understands the game," Popovich said. "He'll pick up the team-defense concept, so he won't have to be the best individual defender."

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As Macdaddy said, there are some things about Al's game that you just can't find... Namely, an inside/outside game offensively... A lot of you tried to compare Al to Reef, but when has Reef ever been good from outside or fast enough to take a four off the dribble??

We try to compensate for a badly coached defense by getting rid of good offensive players (WITHOUT equal compensation).. That's welfare.

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This is a remarkably sane post. Good point about how a good team defensive scheme can mask an individual players shortcomings.

Al was never considered a defensive liability in Indiana. Quite frankly I think Al's problem with the Hawks - and the teams defensive shortcomings as a whole - are in large part due to lack of effort and a bad scheme.

I blame the coach.