It's time for new direction......................

[bralin1]

KB is a shill for this crappy organization. He is afraid to call it like he really sees it. If anyone is still behind Woodson they are ignorant to basketball. Sad KB. Really sad.

Woodson is the worst coach in the NBA and there is no close second. The players have mailed it in under him. They are begging the GM for a change because they know he is in over his head. Billy Knight needs to be fired with him for letting a friend stay on to the detriment of the organization. Our ownership is clueless to let this guy continue to coach. Hey KB...if Woody stays on these Hawks be sink to new lows. I will enjoy reading your weak arguments. Pathetic.

[KB21]

I'm not the one with weak arguments.

[bralin1]

You are one funny dude. We have a coach who has a 23-97 record, the worst in NBA history, and my argument is weak? We have the worst defense in the NBA, giving up an average of 50% shooting, the players lead the league in boneheaded mistakes, the players literally ignore him on the court and on the bench....and MY argument is weak? You and your posts defending Woodson and Billy Knight are a JOKE! I have EVERY FACT on my side...you pull emotional garbage out of your backside offering zero facts on why this boob should be allowed to coach another game. Everything with these losers is blamed on youth...let me clue you in genius. YOUTH CAN STILL PLAY DEFENSE AND GIVE EFFORT! Effort is something that even a young and lousy team can provide. This team gives no effort at all and that is on your coach.

Lets look at the FACTS...23 wins, 97 losses, the worst record in the history of the NBA. Now, it seems to me that it is you that needs a better argument. But because this situation is indefensible I would expect that you can pull your tail between your legs and start a new topic because this one is beyond even your BS.

[Duff_Man]

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You are one funny dude. We have a coach who has a 23-97 record, the worst in NBA history, and my argument is weak? We have the worst defense in the NBA, giving up an average of 50% shooting, the players lead the league in boneheaded mistakes, the players literally ignore him on the court and on the bench....and MY argument is weak? You and your posts defending Woodson and Billy Knight are a JOKE! I have EVERY FACT on my side...you pull emotional garbage out of your backside offering zero facts on why this boob should be allowed to coach another game. Everything with these losers is blamed on youth...let me clue you in genius. YOUTH CAN STILL PLAY DEFENSE AND GIVE EFFORT! Effort is something that even a young and lousy team can provide. This team gives no effort at all and that is on your coach.

Lets look at the FACTS...23 wins, 97 losses, the worst record in the history of the NBA. Now, it seems to me that it is you that needs a better argument. But because this situation is indefensible I would expect that you can pull your tail between your legs and start a new topic because this one is beyond even your BS.

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Actually Quinn Buckner's career winning % was .159.

Bill Hanzlik was .134

Don Cheaney went .146 in 1987

Woody is holding in at .191 career

[bonethugz]

i don't know if anybody said this before but mike moodson is a "defensive minded" coach and how many time did the other teams score over a 100 points? how many time did the other teams score over 90 points? let say if we were losing last game to the bucks by a score like, 85 79. i'm ok with it. but we didn't. firing him now or in the offseason isn't too much of a difference to me though

[Diesel]

This is my response to the Woody hiring...

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Re: Again why did we get rid of Stotts [Re: Hotlanta1981]

#54933 - 06/30/04 09:47 AM

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This is taken right from the Piston's playbook. Hire a guy like Carlisle with a good reputation as an able assistant. Allow that guy to "grow" with the team. When he has reached his limit, hire a seasoned coach to take the team over the hump.

Unfortunately, Mike F doesn't seem to be Bk's guy. I also question why fire Stotts if we just pick up another assistant.

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This is Lascar's take:

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once again, Stotts had to be fired to send a message that this is a new franchise. I don't know why some of you can't understand that. Like you say, what other reason would there be if we still have no replacements and are considering assistants?

He had to go as new management came in. Now Jason Terry is the only reminder of the babcock/AOL era. (I count hendu and CC as out the door)

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KB, this is what you said:

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The Hell it isn't!! [Re: Vol4ever]

#54995 - 06/30/04 04:43 PM

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A three to four year rebuilding plan is the exact course of action this team SHOULD and will take. This team would be making a DRASTIC mistake in trying to turn this thing around quickly. That will never produce a championship caliber team, and it will very likely put the Hawks into the same situation they are trying to come out of now.

To hire a coach simply for his name and marketability is ludicrous!! To do that, you are overlooking actual coaching ability. This team will not hire a coach based on the whim of a few fans who have a comfort level in having a big named head coach.

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And finally, VOL4EVER speaks up..

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Well let's watch and see and if after 4 years there is not the crowds in the stadium there will be trouble.

Bottom line is attend a Hawks game and there are no where near the fans in the stands that is announced. The franchise cannot stand to lose this kind of money.

I've been a Hawks fan since 1978 and in the Conference finals years we didn't sell out against the Celtics. Times have changed overall but the normal fan is not going to come to games to see the Hawks lose every night.

Sorry, it ain't gonna work!

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Finally, Diesel's wisdom on display again...

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As far as coaching, you get somebody who can coach. We have done the experiments before. We have done the Kruger. We have done the Weiss. We have done the Stotts. What the team need is a coach that the city can easily like. We're not in the same position at Detroit or Indy where we have a rich past and a great fanbase. We're in the situation where we have to find a common good amoung all the fans and hit that.

In times past, we have failed to take advantage of the personalities we had. When we had Deke, we should have had every fan in the building wagging the big finger after every block. When we had Big Dog, we should have had a Dog pound that made the big bark everytime he scored. When we had Theo, we should have had rattlers that we shook everytime he blocked a shot...

But instead, we never built up on the identity of these guys so the fans never had a passing interest in the players.

Now we have Chill, J-Smooth, and The Jet. I hate to say it, but right now, there is absolutely no personality to Josh Smith. He's worse than Reef in that respect. From everything I have seen he has no passion on or off the court. However, Chill is a very good front man. He's energetic, young, and he believes in himself. I haven't seen enough of D. Smith or IVy to call it, but we have to stop getting these players and coaches with no personality.

For that reason, I think that the Czar would be a perfect choice of coach:

1. He knows how to coach.

2. He's already established amoung some basketball purist.

3. He has had an abundance of Atheletic ability before.

4. He has passion for the game.

Those are 4 things I can say about Mike F. without having to guess.

I don't know about Woodson.... I think honestly, it would be a mistake to hire a green assistant after firing Stotts.

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[Seano]

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Poor coaching didn't either.

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Ahhh BS. I'm not trying to pick on Woodson or anything, but when you've got an NBA coach so disorganized and so apparently clueless that he forgets to even put his best defender on the floor in crunch-time during the Boston game- what does that tell you?

And his excuse after the game was even worse. I'm paraphrasing here but basically he said, "Ah well, I just got caught up in the flow of the game and that's why I didn't get him in there". Well sorry Mike, but that doesn't wash. I mean he's the freaking coach. How in the hell can he overlook that and forget to sub in the proper players at the proper time????

It just boggles my mind. It truly does. Crap like that just makes this franchise look like an even bigger joke than it already is.

And another thing, for someone who was supposedly a good defensive coach and good at working with young players, how can our defense be as terrible as it is, and why don't these young players seem to be improving all that much? Defensively, we seem to have the standing around aimlessly, matador defense thing down pat- but when it comes to actually stopping someone, fuhgeddaboutit. And how is it that Boris Diaw can go to Phoenix and look like a frigging future All Star in his first season there, yet here he was the invisible man and was borderline useless? That's coaching right there. You can't put it on anything else. His skills certainly didn't improve that greatly over the course of one offseason, meaning he still had those same skills here. But did we see even a glimpse of that? Nah, we didn't see crap from Boris. And that is because either his coaches weren't teaching him properly or they weren't using him right.

[Plainview1981]

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Fratello might have 3-4 more wins at this point, because the problems this team has is related to their inexperience level. It isn't a talent problem nor a coaching problem. I maintain that this team has lost more games this season due to poor officiating than they have lost due to poor coaching.

Young and inexperienced basketball teams have growing pains like this. I have seen nothing that is out of the ordinary with this basketball team relative to the natural progression that a young basketball team makes over the course of their development.

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Worst team in the league last year and the worst team in the

league again this year... Worse than expansion teams like

the Hornets and Bobcats. Yeah, some progression.

[KB21]

So, what's going to be said about the next coach when he comes in, inherits this young team, and doesn't win immediately?

Pretty much the same sh!t. It was said about Terry Stotts. No one on this board, with the exception of a few others and myself, was willing to give Terry Stotts the chance to build upon what he did from February on at the end of the 2003-2004 season. The very same sh!t that is being said about Mike Woodson was being said about Terry Stotts, and Lon Kruger before him. Now look at Terry Stotts.

If Atlanta fires Mike Woodson, and he gets an opportunity elsewhere, I believe he will do well and the Atlanta fans will only continue to gripe about their coaching like they know anything about coaching to begin with.

And that doesn't even begin to go into the idiot fans that believe Billy Knight should have already put a championship team on the floor.

[exodus]

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And that doesn't even begin to go into the idiot fans that believe Billy Knight should have already put a championship team on the floor.

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You are a retard. Nobody expects a championship team. However having the worst team in the league for the second year in a row is a failure, pure and simple.

The Hawks had the 2nd and 31st pick as well as plenty of cap room to sign free agents and yet, unless they win another game this month, they will be only one game ahead of where they were last year. That is a failure.

It is obvious to everyone with a brain that works that the Hawks need a pg for offense and especially defense and BK had plenty of opportunities to bring someone in last summer in free agency at a reasonable price. Not to mention that he passed on Paul who is taking a rag tag group and turning them into a winner.

Instead BK stupidly announced that JJ would be the pg when it is clear that he can't handle the point on offense and especially defense, since opposing pgs are too quick for him.

Yet somehow you are able to look at a team wallowing in last place for the second consecutive year and say BK has done everything right. I have seen some dumb comments on message boards but I struggle to think of anyone who spouts more incoherent nonsense than you do.

[Devon]

I don't think we should be winning championships but I certainly do think that we should at least be competitive!

We play in the eastern conference for Christs' SakE!!!

A sub-.500 record can get you the 6th seed and we are NOWHERE near even being competitive!

I blame the people in the positions of power; Billy Knight has made some AWFUL personnel decisions. Lest ye' forget that while we were waiting out K-Mart's max-deal refusal from us we could've gone after Manu Ginobli instead. while I understand the coup that it was to get Joe Johnson, I also understand what it has and will cost us in the future... If we keep Mike Woodson those picks will still be lottery picks when Phoenix has the rights to them and we will be looking for somewhere to trade Joe... Al Harrington is GOING TO WALK FOR NOTHING at the end of the season... All of the kool-aid drinkers who think he actually wants to stay here are fooling themselves and if you are one of em' I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd love to see to you. We need to trade him and get the best possible deal we can find; although by now people around the league know that they can have him at the end of the season without giving up anything... BAD MOVE(s) BILLY!!!

While we could've drafted our PG of the future we went with potential in marvin Williams; I like Marvin a lot and hope he turns into what everyone thinks he will, but do you really see him blossoming under this coaching and with this support staff?

I blame Mike Woodson for not having a clue about how to rotate players into the and out of the game in key situations. he has his head up his ass when it comes to that...

At this point we should simply get all of our young players as much experience as possible and sit the rest of the scrub vets'.

[Packfill]

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So, what's going to be said about the next coach when he comes in, inherits this young team, and doesn't win immediately?

Pretty much the same sh!t. It was said about Terry Stotts. No one on this board, with the exception of a few others and myself, was willing to give Terry Stotts the chance to build upon what he did from February on at the end of the 2003-2004 season. The very same sh!t that is being said about Mike Woodson was being said about Terry Stotts, and Lon Kruger before him. Now look at Terry Stotts.

If Atlanta fires Mike Woodson, and he gets an opportunity elsewhere, I believe he will do well and the Atlanta fans will only continue to gripe about their coaching like they know anything about coaching to begin with.

And that doesn't even begin to go into the idiot fans that believe Billy Knight should have already put a championship team on the floor.

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I think the criticism of Woodson is deserved. Heck, it is not like Bulls fans are nostalgic over the Tim Floyd era. Oh, Tim Floyd had a secon chance and he blew that too. Woodson is on the same level. Stotts at least showed he could coach up a bunch of misfits.

[KB21]

Hmm. I didn't know that going 8-12 over their last 20 means that the team isn't being competitive. What a revelation.

[Devon]

Being happy with going 8-12 is why we will NOT be competitve or newsworthy or attract free agent talent tat is DESPERATELY needed.

If you are happy with 8-12 then you've given up a long time ago.

Now if it were 12-8 we'd be saying something, but being satisfied with 8-12 shows that you've accepted losing as a standard.

I'm sorry, I expect more than mediocrity.

[exodus]

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Hmm. I didn't know that going 8-12 over their last 20 means that the team isn't being competitive. What a revelation.

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They just went through the easiest part of their schedule and are still in last place. They beat Denver without Camby, Nene, Martin, Buckner and Boykins. They beat Houston without Yao, Tmac, Sura, Barry, Swift and Derek Anderson.

The Hawks have been one of the healthiest teams in the league. The only player that has missed more than two games is Lue.

The Hawks are at least 3 games behind every team except Charlotte, and the only reason they are close to Charlotte is that they are missing their 3 top scorers. Okafor has missed 15 games, Wallace 9 and Rush 17. That is why they have won only one of their last 10 games.

[CrawDaddy]

It's not the 8-12 you should be looking at. We had 5 of 7, but then what happened? The same ol 'shiot under Woodson. We are 3-7 out of our last 10. That ain't good brother. It's not improvement if you digress back to the beginning point. So, who's gonna start FireMikeWoodson.com?

[Duff_Man]

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Being happy with going 8-12 is why we will NOT be competitve or newsworthy or attract free agent talent tat is DESPERATELY needed.

If you are happy with 8-12 then you've given up a long time ago.

Now if it were 12-8 we'd be saying something, but being satisfied with 8-12 shows that you've accepted losing as a standard.

I'm sorry, I expect more than mediocrity.

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As fans, our happiness with small streaks means nothing to the future of the team. The ownership is in charge of that...we can take pleasure in the small victories along the way. At this point, ANY positive is fun for fans.

[Guest Walter]

...coaching solution?

Forget all the rhetoric. Yes or no.

If no, would we be more or less harmed staying with Woody any longer than we have?

I never thought Woody was a long term coaching solution, I know he isn't now, and I think knowing that there is definate harm to our team and young talent by continuing with this coach.

The only argument for "staying the course" is franchise stability and at this point I think Woody staying any longer only portrays the franchise as less stable than more. To maintain a coach that won't be kept in the long run and who not only can't lead a team but who forgets his players is entirely unstable. Move on and fight hard for a good coach.

Honestly, I'd almost like BK to be outside any coaching selection. He's never hired a coach worth a d@mn in his career.

...

Someone else posted it, but I'd love a strong pitch for Stan beginning now.

W

[Guest Walter]

I think Lon Kruger deserved the "same sh!t" and Stotts didn't.

Regarding Stotts verses Woody, Stotts did far better with his respective unit than Woody has done with his both in terms of record, the nature of loses, and the coach's impact in those loses. I don't know what's more incompetent forgeting your best player at cruch time or acknowledging it publically, but regardless I believe that comperable level of incompetence is more often a part of running our team than not under Woody.

[MoonKnight]

Both of us have posted on this evolving Hawk website for some time and I do not consider myself a kneejerk fan. What concerns me is how we are losing. I have not observed one defensive improvement in this team during Woodson's tenure. Yes, I realize we have no defensive 5s on the roster but we do have enough defensive players (Ivey, JJ, JSmoove, and JChill) to be much further along then we currently are. If Fratello (or Musselman) was given this roster I feel certain our team defensive would be much better. Woodson's reputation as a defensive minded coach appears to be undeserved. I still am very concerned about how the constant losing is impacting our young roster.