We got outcoached again!!

[chillzatl]

Late in the 4th, when we needed points, Al (and JJ a few times) started their one on one routine and that is why we lost the game. Forget all the horrible coaching decisoins (which there were many). Forget the turnovers and the complete lack of defense. We stopped moving the ball Al, mostly Al, started going 1-on-1, making bad shots and turning the ball over. I pin some of that on JJ. But most of it was Al's fault. I wouldn't go as far as to call him a cancer. But it has happened enough that you can definitely note the negative impact it has.

[exodus]

Same crap happened with Iverson.

They are going to have to change the way the refs are interpreting the new rules. The idea of eliminating the hand check was to increase scoring and speed up the game. However they are calling so many touch fouls that all the foul shots are slowing down the game.

The NBA is becoming a ft shooting competition.

[Nicholasp27]

too many turnovers cost us shot attempts in the 4th

the bottom line is that we were ahead and all we had to do was score and we couldn't

u can blame fts all you want, but it was our offense that lost that game in the 4th

[Diesel]

I think you can definitely pinpoint the loss to free throws.. However, in the fourth, the disruption of our offensive continuity and loss of the lead came because of these reasons.

1. One on one play by Al, JJ, Lue, and Salim (when he got in).

2. Lousy Ball handling. We couldn't bring the ball up without getting it stolen in the fourth.

It's hard to argue shot selection because we shot 50+%... Al did go one on one and for his troubles he was fouled and went to the line. How does JSmoove play 30+ minutes and not get to the line. His style of play ought to be a slasher. He needs to watch Gerald Wallace.

[bralin1]

KB,

Woody and the Hawks always get pissed on by the officials because Woodson doesn't work them hard and stand up for his team. I watch seasoned guys like Fratello working the refs the entire game, the same with Mike Brown. The Hawks always get the short end of the stick with the refs and that is because Woody is so impotent. He just stands there with that goofy look on this face and take whatever he gets. Usually what he gets is bent over...

The guy is the worst NBA coach that I have ever seen. And you are the worst GM. Thanks for passing on Chris Paul.

[Final_quest]

I think it's fair to say that it was a bit of everything FTs, turnovers, and poor offensive execution.

At least Smoove makes a few highlight reel plays most games, otherwise the Hawks are almost unwatchable.

Yes, the losing is getting to me.

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

u can blame fts all you want, but it was our offense that lost that game in the 4th

---

We shot 50% from the field.

They had 22 more points than us from the freethrow line. 51 free throws must be some type of record.

The point is this. Yes, our offense stumbled in the fourth because their defense played well. They got steals. They scored. They forced the ball to the corners... They were vulnerable when we drove the lane and made it to the free throw line.. But we only have a few players (obviously) who knows how to do that: Al, JJ, Lue. I want to say Chillz but his handle is shaky (as Cleveland showed)...

But had we continued, they would have still won by free throws. Just think.. Lebron could get a three point play whenever he felt like it. He score 38 points.. 15 of those points came from the free throw line.

The fact that they were able to stall our offense is nothing compared to the fact that they were able to go to the free throw line when they wanted to... Scoring with the clock off and no man in your face is a wonderful thing.

The other thing is that our defense did falter too. We would double James on the wing and one the three point line.. What the hell was that about? We had to make him look like Magic Johnson too? I guess we were trying to trap.. But they just sent their guards rumbling down the lane to recieve the James assist package... If we stopped the drive of the lane, we left Marshall wide OPEN for the three ball. I think our defense in that circumstance has to be better...

[Nicholasp27]

u can't blame fts when it was our inability to score more than 15 points in the 4th that did us in; they were out-fting us all game and yet we were up 9 after 3 quarters

we fell apart in the 4th; our defense had a run of stopping them to let us come back from 5 down, but our offense sucked in the 4th (see: 15 points in 4th quarter)

that's why we lost, not fts

[chillzatl]

the 50% shooting is skewed. In the most important 2.5 minutes of the game, we probably shot 10%. That was due to mostly Al and JJ going one on one, bouncing balls off their legs, getting picked, etc. Yah, Al finally started getting the whistle right at the very end. But it was too little too late. We were down like 6 at that point and they had all the momentum. We were hoping for a miracle.

Woodsons complete lack of vision as far as teh flow of the game didn't help either. Honestly I put more of the loss on woodson than I do on Al. Because we could have held onto the lead (all 3 of them), had he recognized in-game situations and made good adjustments. But he didn't. He stuck to his naive time-line rotation and it failed.

The players know their roles now. It's time to start coaching and not letting the clock dictate what he should be doing at any given point in a game.

[Diesel]

Actually, I agree.

I don't know if Woody can't contain himself with referrees but most of the time, it's Al or Smoove trying to plead with the refs... A player shouldn't have to work a ref hard if his coach is doing his job.

[Packfill]

Quote:

---

Late in the 4th, when we needed points, Al (and JJ a few times) started their one on one routine and that is why we lost the game. Forget all the horrible coaching decisoins (which there were many). Forget the turnovers and the complete lack of defense. We stopped moving the ball Al, mostly Al, started going 1-on-1, making bad shots and turning the ball over. I pin some of that on JJ. But most of it was Al's fault. I wouldn't go as far as to call him a cancer. But it has happened enough that you can definitely note the negative impact it has.

---

BS. JJ had at least 3 turnovers in the 4th quarter and the whole team settles for jump shots. WTF is the coach not getting involved and telling them to go down low or drive to the hoop? That or why isn't our point guard setting up a freaking play that involves getting the ball inside? It is plain and simple terrible coaching or terrible execution.

No way you can pin last nights loss on Al, no way. Woodson, JJ and whomever was trying to guard LeBron are all in line before Al as far as blame for last

nights loss.

And there is no freaking way he can be considered a cancer. Artest is a cancer, Steve Francis is a cancer, Al is nothing of the sort. It is incredulous to even say that.

[Nicholasp27]

even without the fts, we were losing the game due to 4th quarter offense

they coulda scored 22 (which they can do without fts) and still won since we only scored 15...likewise, we coulda scored 25 and won the game

most teams score 22 against us in the 4th regardless of fts...and we usually score 25 in the 4th...so we lost this due to the offense, NOT fts

this loss is not on the refs' foul calling but our own stagnant, turning the ball over, fourth quarter offense

[Diesel]

Did you watch the game at all??

When a team gets in foul trouble like we were.. the defense breaks down like ours did.

The free throws is the major reason for the loss. Our offensive let down was a secondary reason.

Here's the 4th quarter...

Here's the 4th..

Quote:

---

11:47 Cleveland defensive rebound 76-82

11:47 Zydrunas Ilgauskas loose ball foul (Zaza Pachulia draws the foul) 76-82

11:36 Drew Gooden enters the game for Zydrunas Ilgauskas 76-82

11:36 76-82 Joe Johnson bad pass

11:18 76-82 Josh Childress personal foul (Sasha Pavlovic draws the foul)

11:18 Eric Snow enters the game for Ira Newble 76-82

11:11 Damon Jones misses 16-foot jumper 76-82

11:08 76-82 Al Harrington defensive rebound

10:56 76-82 Tyronn Lue misses 19-foot jumper

10:53 Drew Gooden defensive rebound 76-82

10:49 76-82 Tyronn Lue shooting foul (Donyell Marshall draws the foul)

10:49 Donyell Marshall makes free throw 1 of 2 77-82

10:49 LeBron James enters the game for Damon Jones 77-82

10:49 Donyell Marshall makes free throw 2 of 2 78-82

10:30 78-82 Zaza Pachulia lost ball (Eric Snow steals)

10:26 LeBron James makes dunk (Eric Snow assists) 80-82

10:03 80-82 Al Harrington misses 25-foot three point jumper

10:02 80-82 Josh Childress offensive rebound

9:53 80-82 Josh Childress lost ball (Sasha Pavlovic steals)

9:48 80-82 Tyronn Lue shooting foul (Donyell Marshall draws the foul)

9:48 Donyell Marshall makes free throw 1 of 2 81-82

9:48 Donyell Marshall makes free throw 2 of 2 82-82

9:36 82-84 Tyronn Lue makes 21-foot jumper

9:07 Donyell Marshall makes 25-foot three point jumper (Eric Snow assists) 85-84

8:49 85-84 Joe Johnson lost ball (LeBron James steals)

8:41 Donyell Marshall misses layup 85-84

8:41 Drew Gooden misses tip shot 85-84

8:41 Drew Gooden offensive rebound 85-84

8:37 85-84 Al Harrington offensive rebound

8:33 85-84 Drew Gooden blocks Al Harrington's layup

8:32 Donyell Marshall defensive rebound 85-84

8:30 LeBron James makes layup (Eric Snow assists) 87-84

8:30 87-84 Tyronn Lue shooting foul (LeBron James draws the foul)

8:30 87-84 Official timeout

8:30 LeBron James makes free throw 1 of 1 88-84

8:15 88-84 Tyronn Lue misses 26-foot three point jumper

8:12 LeBron James defensive rebound 88-84

8:07 LeBron James makes layup 90-84

7:46 Drew Gooden shooting foul (Al Harrington draws the foul) 90-84

7:46 90-85 Al Harrington makes free throw 1 of 2

7:46 90-85 Josh Smith enters the game for Zaza Pachulia

7:46 90-86 Al Harrington makes free throw 2 of 2

7:24 LeBron James makes 22-foot jumper 92-86

7:07 LeBron James shooting foul (Joe Johnson draws the foul) 92-86

7:07 92-87 Joe Johnson makes free throw 1 of 2

7:07 92-88 Joe Johnson makes free throw 2 of 2

6:48 Eric Snow misses 17-foot jumper 92-88

6:47 92-88 Josh Smith defensive rebound

6:31 92-88 Al Harrington misses 6-foot jumper

6:31 Drew Gooden defensive rebound 92-88

6:18 92-88 Josh Childress shooting foul (Eric Snow draws the foul)

6:18 Eric Snow makes free throw 1 of 2 93-88

6:18 Eric Snow misses free throw 2 of 2 93-88

6:18 Donyell Marshall offensive rebound 93-88

5:58 Donyell Marshall misses 23-foot three point jumper 93-88

5:56 93-88 Tyronn Lue defensive rebound

5:35 93-88 Joe Johnson misses 5-foot jumper

5:33 LeBron James defensive rebound 93-88

5:16 Drew Gooden misses jumper 93-88

5:13 93-88 Al Harrington defensive rebound

5:07 93-88 Joe Johnson lost ball (LeBron James steals)

5:05 93-88 Tyronn Lue shooting foul (Eric Snow draws the foul)

5:05 Atlanta full timeout

5:05 Eric Snow misses free throw 1 of 2 93-88

5:05 Cleveland offensive rebound 93-88

5:05 Eric Snow misses free throw 2 of 2 93-88

5:03 Cleveland defensive rebound 93-88

4:46 93-91 Joe Johnson makes 24-foot three point jumper (Al Harrington assists)

4:26 Josh Childress blocks LeBron James's layup 93-91

4:24 93-91 Al Harrington defensive rebound

4:16 Eric Snow personal foul (Josh Smith draws the foul) 93-91

4:03 Sasha Pavlovic shooting foul (Al Harrington draws the foul) 93-91

4:03 93-92 Al Harrington makes free throw 1 of 2

4:03 Damon Jones enters the game for Eric Snow 93-92

4:03 93-93 Al Harrington makes free throw 2 of 2

3:47 93-93 Josh Smith personal foul (Donyell Marshall draws the foul)

3:47 Donyell Marshall misses free throw 1 of 2 93-93

3:47 Cleveland offensive rebound 93-93

3:47 Donyell Marshall makes free throw 2 of 2 94-93

3:32 Drew Gooden personal foul (Al Harrington draws the foul) 94-93

3:32 94-93 Al Harrington misses free throw 1 of 2

3:32 94-93 Atlanta offensive rebound

3:32 94-93 Al Harrington misses free throw 2 of 2

3:31 Sasha Pavlovic defensive rebound 94-93

3:18 Donyell Marshall makes three point jumper (LeBron James assists) 97-93

2:50 97-93 Tyronn Lue misses 25-foot three point jumper

2:48 Donyell Marshall defensive rebound 97-93

2:28 LeBron James misses 25-foot three point jumper 97-93

2:28 Donyell Marshall offensive rebound 97-93

2:28 97-93 Tyronn Lue shooting foul (Donyell Marshall draws the foul)

2:28 Cleveland full timeout

2:28 97-93 Salim Stoudamire enters the game for Tyronn Lue

2:28 Donyell Marshall makes free throw 1 of 2 98-93

2:28 Donyell Marshall makes free throw 2 of 2 99-93

2:15 99-93 Joe Johnson misses 4-foot jumper

2:13 LeBron James defensive rebound 99-93

1:54 Damon Jones lost ball (Joe Johnson steals) 99-93

1:49 99-93 Josh Childress misses layup

1:49 99-95 Joe Johnson makes tip shot

1:49 99-95 Joe Johnson offensive rebound

1:32 99-95 Josh Childress personal foul (LeBron James draws the foul)

1:32 LeBron James makes free throw 1 of 2 100-95

1:32 LeBron James makes free throw 2 of 2 101-95

1:15 101-95 Salim Stoudamire misses 16-foot jumper

1:15 Damon Jones defensive rebound 101-95

0:58 Donyell Marshall makes three point jumper (Damon Jones assists) 104-95

0:49 104-95 Joe Johnson misses 26-foot three point jumper

0:47 LeBron James defensive rebound 104-95

0:28 Damon Jones misses 27-foot three point jumper 104-95

0:28 Drew Gooden offensive rebound 104-95

0:28 Drew Gooden makes layup 106-95

0:28 106-95 Joe Johnson shooting foul (Drew Gooden draws the foul)

0:28 Drew Gooden misses free throw 1 of 1 106-95

0:26 106-95 Josh Childress defensive rebound

0:21 Sasha Pavlovic shooting foul (Josh Childress draws the foul) 106-95

0:21 Luke Jackson enters the game for LeBron James 106-95

0:21 Anderson Varejao enters the game for Damon Jones 106-95

0:21 Mike Wilks enters the game for Donyell Marshall 106-95

0:21 106-96 Josh Childress makes free throw 1 of 2

0:21 Alan Henderson enters the game for Drew Gooden 106-96

0:21 106-97 Josh Childress makes free throw 2 of 2

0:00 End of the 4th Quarter

0:00 End Game

---

[Nicholasp27]

Quote:

---

Same crap happened with Iverson.

They are going to have to change the way the refs are interpreting the new rules. The idea of eliminating the hand check was to increase scoring and speed up the game. However they are calling so many touch fouls that all the foul shots are slowing down the game.

The NBA is becoming a ft shooting competition.

---

i did some quick checking to confirm the effect of the new rule

player: last year's ft attempts/on pace for this year

lebron: 636/828

kobe: 664/881

ai: 786/910

vince: 490/621

pretty big difference

[chillzatl]

Both JJ and Al were doing it. They took turns over the last 3 minutes of the game making bad decisions and turning the ball over. It's a matter of personal preference as to who you choose to assign the most blame to. For me, last night, it was Al.

[exodus]

This loss didn't bother me that much. Yes they made the mistakes that have been listed here but there was a long stretch in the first half and again in the 3rd quarter where they played some of their best basketball of the year.

Considering not long ago they looked like quitters I am not that disappointed about last night.

[Diesel]

I am disappointed that they didn't win. They have looked good a lot against good teams. We should be moving toward being able to finish.

I feel that sometimes Woody just totally messes up by changing a good lineup while they are hot.

I could be angry with Lue for shooting the way he did in the 4th, but he shot the same way against Indy and I gave him praise so I won't do that. However, I can't help but recognize the impact that the foul calls had on the game tonight. I thought they gave Marshall and Lebron a lot of calls for mere touch fouls..

[Nicholasp27]

again, fts were secondary

if they didn't get any unearned fts in the 4th, they STILL win because they still put up 22 points in the 4th quarter; that's not hard for a team to do

and 22 points is all it took because we couldn't score more than 15 in the quarter

all we had to do is score 25 in the fourth even with their 30pt effort due to fts, which, again, is not hard to do...but we couldn't do it

i don't care if they got 100 fts in the 4th...if the differential in points is 30-15 and we lose by 9, then our lack of scoring is what caused the loss...there is no way around that

if we get outscored by 15 points when we score 25 in a period, that's one thing...but when we only score 15 in a period (that's pace for 60 in a game) then we aren't gonna win even if the other team gets ZERO fts

[Nicholasp27]

using your game feed:

our turnovers:

turnover bad pass

turnover stolen

turnover stolen

turnover blocked

turnover stolen

their non-ft scores:

dunk

3pter

layup

22ft jumper

3pter

3pter

layup

that's 17 points not from fts; they only needed 22 points to win...i think them getting 5 fts in a fourth quarter is reasonable...so again, the extra ft attempts didn't cause the loss...our 5 turnovers and 1212312 missed shots leading to only 15 points did

[chillzatl]

The FT's hurt because of the mental impact they had on the team. For 45 mintues of the game, we couldn't buy a call against them and they got calls against us for the most questionable of offenses. it's one thing when you're playing well, winning and not getting calls. It's another thing entirely when you're losing your lead, you're getting everything called against you and you still can't get a call. Especially when you're playing at home.