It's official, I've given up on Mike Woodson..

[chillzatl]

I've tried to be one of his defenders. Even if I didn't consider myself a supporter. I've tried to have an open mind and give him the benefit of the doubt and some time to prove that he's got an over arching plan for this lineup. But last night, combined with numerous previous..screw ups, did it for me.

I hoped that he would learn to make good in-game adjustments. But so far this season he hasn't shown much of an ability to recognize what is happening and make adjustments that have a positive effect. Sure, a lot of times those adjustments depend on the players being able to pick up their end. Which they often don't do. But last night he did nothing to help his team maintain any shred of momentum.

In the 2nd quarter, we are up by 11. Over the course of the next 6 minutes or so, The cavs slowly chipped away at that lead. Woodson stood there, arms crossed, with his frankenstein shoulder pads, and refused to call a time out while his team lost momentum and the lead. It's not like they scored 9 points in 1.5 minutes to cut the lead. They slowly and effeciently cut the lead and he did nothing. Those of us that were in the chatroom kept asking, "when is he going to call a time out". We did this for a good 5-6 minutes of game time, before he finally did it.

Again in the 3rd, we come out, down by 1. But we get the lead back up. A big part of that was due to the play of Royal Ivey. Now i've been one of those who defended Woodson for not playing Ivey more, simply because I didn't think he earned it often enough. But last night, he earned it and then some. So what does woodson do? he pulls him after about 6 minutes into the 3rd. What happens next? The cavs cut another hearty lead and sap all of our momentum.

He just doesn't seem to be able to recognize who is contributing to the teams good play and stick with them. He also doesn't seem to recognize when a player isn't effective and has been out there too long. Basically his hard set "time line rotation" is not working. It seems to be nothing more than a cover-up for a guy who doesn't have the vision to make good in-game adjustments.

I am one of those people who thinks that a coaches impact on the game, any game, is minimal. to me a coach has only a few responsibilities. One would be to set a gameplan or system that takes advantage of what his players can do best. The second would be to recognize the ebb and flow of the game and make adjustments to give his team the best chance to win. The third would be to keep his team focused and motivated to play hard every night. I think he's done Ok at the first and so far, has done pretty good at the third. But he has failed at the second far more times than he has succeeded.

[Packfill]

I think it would be hard to argue that he is not the worst coach in the league.

[chillzatl]

I was as willing as anyone on this board to give him time and the benefit of the doubt. But he's lost me. Fortunately he doesn't seem to have lost the team. Which is probably the only reason he's still there. But he seems to be the worst X's and O's guy in the league today.

[Diesel]

Yeah. That about covers it.

I don't understand the 11 minute window for Ivey. Ivey is steady, he definitely plays good defense, and he even got some offense.. What's up with that???

[Nicholasp27]

Quote:

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Now i've been one of those who defended Woodson for not playing Ivey more, simply because I didn't think he earned it often enough.

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yes he has

there have been several games where he got 6-8 points in the first 2-4 mins of the game before being yanked out...he shoulda stayed in the game those times since he was hot AND provides a steady defensive presence

teams score NINE points less per 100 possessions when ivey is in the game

that is HUGE...NINE points differential and he doesn't play in garbage time either

[DJlaysitup]

Ivey sure looked good last night when he was in there (and has more than a few times this year). Surely there's a team out there looking for a solid player like him...one that would give him reasonable minutes.

[ATL_BALLER]

As we know, Woody and BK are boys. BK is one stubborn fella.

As long as BK is around, Woody will be as well.

[chillzatl]

and honestly I can't see BK throwing his head on the chopping block with Woodson if the axe falls. He might and I'd have some respect for his stand. But friends or no friends, if the ownership points out all these shortcomings, BK can't simply pretend that they don't exist.

But if that's what has to happen, owell.

[VDiLetto]

we are in a lose-lose situation...We have a GM who has not shown any skill in putting a team together and a coach who has shown nothing as far as how to work the team. Do we have anything going for us? Someone please show me the light at the end of the tunnel because my optomism is fading. However...I did predict 25 wins so I guess I was just hoping I would be wrong but it looks like we are heading that direction.

[macdaddy]

I didn't think you'd come around Chill.

With Ivey the question is how does a player earn more playing time. Apparently they can't. That's not going to make anyone on the team happy.

With BK and Woody being buds I have to wonder if BK is happy with him. Woody's handling of Diaw made them both look bad and Diaw was a player BK really liked. I don't think BK brought Delk, Edwards, Batista in just to sit there.

The other question I have is are we really doing everything we can to win as an organization or is the primary focus still about developing players. Obviously, you want to do both but it still seems we are mainly about getting guys experience. For instance, Delk could be playing. We could have added Googs after Collier passed.

I'm ready for a fresh approach even if its BK down there with his arms crossed.

[exodus]

I am thinking BK has to go for the Hawks roster to be filled out. He obviously doesn't understand the importance of a point guard. He said as much to Lascar and his actions prove it.

Everyone here(except maybe johnnybravo) can see Ivey is easily the best defender at the point we have. So if the offense is clicking when he is out there you have to leave him in the game. That is just basic common sense.

I have pretty much stayed off Woody's back, but the reality is I haven't seen anything to make me believe that he is a good coach.

[chillzatl]

I think BK has shown a fine ability to build a team. But you have to look at things as they are, not as you wish them to be. We are a building team with good pieces. But like ALL building teams, we are not complete. We have flaws and holes and lots of missing parts. That doesn't mean the GM hasn't done a good job. I think the exact opposite is true. I think he's done a very good job.

While we may, in our individual minds, disagree with some of his draft moves or his singings. None of them can be considered bad. He has succeeded in bringing talent and potential to this team while removing the financial constraints that the salary cap put on us. We have more talent on this team than we have had since 1999 and we have more potential than the Hawks have had in 15 years. That is all Bk's doing.

I also can't completely agree about the coach. while his ability to judge the game and make adjustments is sorely lacking. He has shown that he knows how to motivate his team and he knows the game well enough to give them a gameplan that plays to their strenghts. Sometimes they don't do all the things neccessary to get the most out of that gameplan. But that is the same with every team in the league. His failings are in managing the game as it progresses. In that respect he has been a failure more often than he has been a success.

[chillzatl]

Diaw is doing exactly what he was thought to be capable of. THe problem is that it took an MVP caliber PG and a team stocked with tested and proven talent to make that vision a reality. We simply couldn't provide that here and Diaw didn't have the balls, talent or pride to help build it. He took the easy way out and cried himself to a contender. Fortunately we got someone who is vastly more talented than him in return. It only looks bad on the surface. If you analyze the situation, what happened had to happen.

As far as the org doing everything they can to win, I would say yes. We have a solid GM who has made good moves and we have a lot of talent. The organization can't do much more than they've done. When you're a bad team trying to get better, there isn't a magic solution to the problem. There is no single key you can turn to go from being bad to being good (short of drafting/trading a duncan or shaq caliber player). We have to continue to develop talent while teaching teh players we have how to win.

[Duff_Man]

When everyone in an internet chatroom agrees on things in a game, you know it is a bad situation. Last night was one of those times when everyong in their living rooms could easily have coached the game better. A few things that irk me about Woody:

1. Ivey/Lue - No doubt we need Lue's offense, and no doubt I feel Lue deserves minutes for this team as it is built right now, BUT yanking Royal Ivey when he is out there playing stellar D, getting boards, blocking shots (!), and shooting well is just unfathomable. Last night Ivey was looking like Mookie Blaylock out there, doing everything and not making mental errors...and he comes out after 4 minutes in each half. It was obvious Royal was giving them fits, and Woody stuck with his guns and pulled him.

2. Josh Smith - When he's hot, he sits him for entire halves. When he's awful (like last night) he gets minutes. WTF? This whole situation is proof that Mike Woodson is not all together with it.

3. The timeouts. Lenny Wilkens had a way of weathering the storm on some runs and not panicking with the timeouts. He felt the way the game was going and used them wisely. Woodson waits until an entire lead evaporates before calling timeouts. Hell, I have seen subs sit at the scorers table waiting to go in and Woody lets time tick away without calling a TO to get the player in the game. Just not smart coaching.

Also last night, and I know this won't be a popular opinion, When Zydrunas got #5 and had to sit, Woody pulled Zaza...why? Zaza could have freely banged inside, rebounded, and gotten to the line (and made the FTs). Instead Woody went small and the torching began.

I am losing faith in Woody as well. A new direction might be a good way to go IMO.

[Nicholasp27]

woody had a hand in the diaw situation

diaw would have a great game (like the OT game against the knicks last year) and then woody wouldn't play him for a few games

his inconsistent time with diaw/ivey last year hurt both of them; maybe if he'd played diaw more last year when he was playing well, phoenix woulda let us keep our pick or put a lot more protection on it

same with ivey so i'm glad that ivey at least gets a consistent 10mpg now, tho i want him to get 15-20, especially when he's playing well

[Packfill]

Quote:

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Diaw is doing exactly what he was thought to be capable of. THe problem is that it took an MVP caliber PG and a team stocked with tested and proven talent to make that vision a reality. We simply couldn't provide that here and Diaw didn't have the balls, talent or pride to help build it. He took the easy way out and cried himself to a contender. Fortunately we got someone who is vastly more talented than him in return. It only looks bad on the surface. If you analyze the situation, what happened had to happen.

As far as the org doing everything they can to win, I would say yes. We have a solid GM who has made good moves and we have a lot of talent. The organization can't do much more than they've done. When you're a bad team trying to get better, there isn't a magic solution to the problem. There is no single key you can turn to go from being bad to being good (short of drafting/trading a duncan or shaq caliber player). We have to continue to develop talent while teaching teh players we have how to win.

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Just to be fair, playing with Nash is obviously a huge benefit to any player, but outside of Nash and Marion that team is absolutely not full of proven players. Diaw is probably their third best player, followed in some order by the likes of Thomas, Barbosa, Jones, House, etc. Of those guys, only Thomas is a real vet but as evidenced by his stay in NY he does not make players around him better.

I really think Diaw's development is about coaching - he had none in Atlanta and a lot in Phoenix.

[Popeye]

Quote:

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When everyone in an internet chatroom agrees on things in a game, you know it is a bad situation. Last night was one of those times when everyong in their living rooms could easily have coached the game better. A few things that irk me about Woody:

1. Ivey/Lue - No doubt we need Lue's offense, and no doubt I feel Lue deserves minutes for this team as it is built right now, BUT yanking Royal Ivey when he is out there playing stellar D, getting boards, blocking shots (!), and shooting well is just unfathomable. Last night Ivey was looking like Mookie Blaylock out there, doing everything and not making mental errors...and he comes out after 4 minutes in each half. It was obvious Royal was giving them fits, and Woody stuck with his guns and pulled him.

2. Josh Smith - When he's hot, he sits him for entire halves. When he's awful (like last night) he gets minutes. WTF? This whole situation is proof that Mike Woodson is not all together with it.

3. The timeouts. Lenny Wilkens had a way of weathering the storm on some runs and not panicking with the timeouts. He felt the way the game was going and used them wisely. Woodson waits until an entire lead evaporates before calling timeouts. Hell, I have seen subs sit at the scorers table waiting to go in and Woody lets time tick away without calling a TO to get the player in the game. Just not smart coaching.

Also last night, and I know this won't be a popular opinion, When Zydrunas got #5 and had to sit, Woody pulled Zaza...why? Zaza could have freely banged inside, rebounded, and gotten to the line (and made the FTs). Instead Woody went small and the torching began.

I am losing faith in Woody as well. A new direction might be a good way to go IMO.

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WELL SAID

[Diesel]

I bet that somewhere on a different Website, one dedicated to the fans of the Utah Jazz.. There is someone complaining about how good Raja Bell is now.

Don't let the Nash effect fool you.

Diaw has skills but he is made much much better by playing with the leagues' MVP.

[macdaddy]

I don't care that we don't have Diaw or that he's putting up bigger numbers in phx. I think everyone will agree that he's was a disappointment for us and I can't imagine that BK doesn't place some of the blame on the coaching staff.

[bralin1]

There is more to Diaw than Nash. Playing with Nash has given him the confidence that Woody and BK couldn't find.

The Atlanta Spirit run the worst organization in sports. It is hard to argue the numbers...their GM drafts the same guy every year and then cozies up the head coach, who also happens to be the worst coach in the league. The two of them then conspire to convince the 17 incompetant owners that they lose all the time because they are young.

That's quite a racket they have going. Where do I sign up?