IVEY STINKS!

[Johnnybravo4]

Now after the last few games with Ivey playing increased minutes...can we all now agree that he belongs in the D-League and that Salim Stoudamire should start at point guard until further notice.

[TAdams_1]

Agreed.

[Nicholasp27]

i haven't seen last night's game yet, so don't know how he did, but he hasn't been stinking it up; sure he's no 20ppg player, but he has gone off for 6-8 points in 4mins before getting yanked by woody each game...give him time with actual minutes and with games where he is allowed to stay in if he's hot and we'll see him develop into a fine backup pg

even when he's off offensively, he's a strong defender and helps out this team

slim is NOT a pg, so he should not be starting...he is a great bench player who can bring instant offense and whose minutes will vary by how hot he is in a given night...hopefully he'll develop and will become more proficient in other areas of the game, especially ball handling and distribution...he's fine playing pg during the game, but he's no starter at pg

[exodus]

This month Salim is shooting 37% from the field, has only 4 assists and 8 turnovers. He doesn't even remotely resemble a pg. Last night he turned the ball over the first time he touched it.

This month Ivey has 11 assists and only 2 turnovers while shooting 45%.

As usual you have it completely wrong.

[Diesel]

I don't think Ivey stinks.. I think Ivey is a young player. Salim is young, but I think Salim ruins our offense. For all the good that he brings when he's "on".. He never looks to pass and if he does pass, it's a t.o. I betcha, Delk would play much better.

[Johnnybravo4]

Ivey's points and assists are non outcome determinative. Salim is going through a slump but Ivey can't even go through a slump because he has never been a factor. Ivey is an offensive liability and a defensive fiction. He probably leads the league in stupid hand check fouls. We should run Salim and Delk period. Even if Salim plays the 2 and JJ brings the ball up, it is still better than Ivey missing 10 foot jumpers.

[exodus]

Salim's shooting "slump" has lasted 6 weeks and counting. And he does NOTHING else better than Ivey. Ivey is a better ball-handler, passer and defender.

[Final_quest]

Delk would be much better, certainly.

Still, I can't fault management for wanting to develop the future of our team. Most GMs could field a 30 win team full of veterans like Delk, but it's just not an effective blue print for building a perennial playoff team.

[Johnnybravo4]

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Salim's shooting "slump" has lasted 6 weeks and counting. And he does NOTHING else better than Ivey. Ivey is a better ball-handler, passer and defender.

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If that is the case then Ivey's game has been in a slump for 10 years. Way to draft a cat who could only avg 9ppg in the Big 12. GARBAGE!

[Packfill]

All of the team's want-to-be point guards stink, no need to single one out. I would really try and use Salim as trade bait - see if someone bites and values his shooting skills. Since he has no ability to play point guard he has no value to the hawks other then a 10 minute per game back-up to JJ, so might as well deal him for something the team needs.

[macdaddy]

There needs to be a balance. Salim needs experience but he also needs veteran help to show him how its done. I think Ivey could be really good, but at this point I don't see him as anymore of the future of this team than Delk. So why not play Delk.

[Diesel]

I have always been an advocate of young players earning time on the court. When a player is just given a gang of playing time, he doesn't appreciate it or understand the work that it took to take it.

However, when you reward good play with playing time, then there is no anomosity, there is no crushed confidence. It's all good because a player understands what got him on the court and he plays harder.

[Lascar78]

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If that is the case then Ivey's game has been in a slump for 10 years. Way to draft a cat who could only avg 9ppg in the Big 12. GARBAGE!

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you do realize he was drafted 37th right?

after jackson brooks, lionel chalmers, andre emmett, antonio burks... do you think those teams are still whining about those picks? of course not. they're second rounders.

For reference, the 37th pick in 03 was travis hansen, david anderson in 02, damone brown in 01.

You're not supposed to expect an NBA starter at the 37th pick. It's a craps shoot at best.

[thesheedera]

Diesel, do you feel that any of our young guys are getting time they don't deserve? The best thing Woody has done in my opinion is put guys on the bench when they aren't earning it, and putting them in games when they are. I like the way he's brought Marvin, Salim and Batista along slowly this season.

I of the group that doesn't believe you need to be on the court 30 min/game to imrpove as a rookie.

[Final_quest]

Salim has been earning his time. It's not as if he's been given starter's minutes. Between JJ, Lue, Ivey, Salim, and Delk somebody had to be out of the picture.

[macdaddy]

You didn't ask me, but my problem is guys going to the bench when they do earn more playing time. This has been Ivey's problem.

[Nicholasp27]

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Ivey's points and assists are non outcome determinative.

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his defense and keeping the opposing team from going on big runs to start the 1st/3rd quarter are definitely outcome determinative; teams score 6.8 points less per 100 possessions when ivey is in the game; and our record is better since ivey has been starting

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Ivey missing 10 foot jumpers.

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ivey shoots better from the floor (47.2% vs 42.4% ) and from 3 (only 4 attempts tho, so that's not fair) than slim

now slim is a much better shooter and takes many more shots and many more poor shots, but ivey isn't horrible at shooting

he takes smart shots when available; he's able to help the team out without being a black hole or otherwise needing touches or shots called for him

[exodus]

was Smith. Even though he only played 21 minutes he had a good all around game. He held Artest scoreless in the first quarter when he was guarding him. He was also 5-9 from the field with 3 blocks, 3 assists and 5 rebounds.

After the last few games it was nice to see him look like himself again.

[DJlaysitup]

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You're not supposed to expect an NBA starter at the 37th pick. It's a craps shoot at best.

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[/indent]

I agree wholeheartedly...and I don't think we got one with Ivey. Good player, hustles, defense, has some moves, but if he had been down in the NBDL or CBA this year I doubt any team would be chomping at the bit to bring him in. His game just doesn't stand out. But to be fair, I doubt the organization is looking to him for the future at PG. Hopefully he can do a nice job as a backup in the future and stay in the league.

[tmac13]

BK should get a tickertape if he ever fields a 30 win..That would be way above his average.