Francis going to either Denver or Atlanta.

[Diesel]

If it were all about money, then JJ would still be in Phoenix.

They gave were willing to give him a matching offer but he WANTED to leave.

IN SHORT "SHORT BUS" JJ left Phoenix because he didn't want to stay in Phoenix.

It wasn't about the money.

The fact that we had money is only secondary to the fact that he wanted out.

[chillzatl]

I think your opinion of Francis as a player is jaded at best.

When he had Mobley playing next to him he was considered one of the NBA's best. He had a winning team and along with Mobley was considered one of the best backcourt tandems in the league. It's ridiculous to just blindly call him a ballhog and act like he's one step away from being out of the NBA.

[Packfill]

Why is Orlando willing to unload him for an expiring contract then?

[macdaddy]

I'm pretty neutral on Francis but one thing is for sure: he is an nba quality starter. Most posts regularly talk about how JJ and Al are the only guys we have that would start on other teams, and half of those question if Al would. So getting a legitimate top tier talent is something to consider.

[chillzatl]

Because he makes a lot of money, they are a bad team with zero cap flex and he (or any one player) isn't going to make them good any time soon. They are in the same situation that MANY teams find themselves in. It certainly isnt' as cut and dried as him being a ballhog and they want to trade him. They have problems that go far beyond any one player.

[exodus]

Quote:

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IN SHORT "SHORT BUS" JJ left Phoenix because he didn't want to stay in Phoenix.

It wasn't about the money.

The fact that we had money is only secondary to the fact that he wanted out.

---

You have been wrong about almost everything this year so i guess there is no reason for me to expect you would wise up now.

If Phoenix had offered him a max deal before last season started he never would have been a free agent. They lowballed him before the season and after the season.

In case you didn't know a lowball offer is a contract offer below what the player feels his value to be. Having been lowballed twice he felt unappreciated and chose to leave.

Everyone else on the board understands this, however it is not surprising that you don't.

[chillzatl]

A NBA starter quality player who plays one of the two positions that we most desperately need. He's far beyond being just NBA starter quality too. He has the talent to be a regular all-star and is far from being a J.R. Rider.

[Diesel]

Like i have said from the beginning.. THIS PAST offseason, not the offseason before. It was not a case of MONEY.. JOE wanted out of PHOENIX. Phoenix could have offered Joe 100 million dollars and he probably would have said no...

Listen to the owner...

Quote:

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Gambo: You go out there and you offer Joe, initially, six years, $60 million…

Sarver: Well, kinda. I mean, we tried to go meet with him first. The first thing, we had a meeting – Amaré and I, Bryan and Jerry (Colangelo), and Mike D’Antoni – had set up a meeting. We were going to fly out to Arkansas to meet with Joe. We found out the second day of the time you could meet that he had planned on being in L.A… so we made arrangements to meet in Los Angeles at their house. We were going to go there and talk about trying to get a deal, with the idea of coming away with a deal just like we did with Steve Nash (last summer). We got a call a day later that said it was cancelled, “Joe’s busy. He’s got other things to do with his buddies. He’s going to spend the weekend with his buddies.” He’s not meeting with us and not only that, they don’t really have any reason to meet.

---

Quote:

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Then about a week later, we decided, okay let’s give him an offer. So we looked around. Well, Steve Nash got $66 million over six years. Manu Ginobili signed for $53 million over six. I thought that wasn’t a bad comp. Manu’s a pretty good player. And so we said, “Okay, you want an offer? Here’s an offer. $60 million. Come back to us.” They came back to us and said, “You know, we’re just not interested.” We asked,

“Do you have a counter?” and they said, “No, we’re just going to pursue different options.”

So we didn’t get anywhere.

We just kept calling and calling. “Can we meet? Can we meet?” We knew they were looking at a deal with Atlanta, and with all the frustration, I finally told Jerry, “Maybe I’ll just get on a plane and go find the guy. I mean, how hard… I can’t get ahold of him. Maybe I’ll just go find him. I’ll fly into Little Rock.” Jerry said, “Well, maybe we ought to call first, so I called and spoke to his mom, trying to get a call back. I said, “I’m coming in tomorrow, give me 45 minutes, an hour to meet with you,” and I got a call back from his agent’s secretary saying, “He’s busy. He can’t meet.” Then he cancelled two other meetings. Finally, we got a telephone call set up and that’s when I spoke to him last Thursday, and that’s when he validated that he really was preferring to be in Atlanta.

---

You can keep trying to bring the previous offseason into the conversation, but JJ left because of respect.. if it were about money, he would have had a counter that Phoenix would have had to decline.. as the owner says, Joe was not interested in talking about being in phoenix at all.

[exodus]

So the fact that Atlanta offered him a max deal had no relevance on him coming here.

You can keep arguing the sky is green all you want. The bottom line is that the Hawks will be able to get free agents because they have the money to pursue them.

You can argue all day long that the Hawks won't be able to get any free agents but nobody will believe you. The Hawks can get them because they are one of the few teams that can pay more than the MLE.

[Diesel]

I think the fact that we had a max offer to offer does play a role, but only secondary to his wanting to get out of Phoenix.

And it might be third behind his wanting to be "the star" of the team...

He and Amare had a breakdown that probably affected Joe's view of being the fourth option on the team. He wanted to spread his wings similar to Al.

[exodus]

This whole nonsensical argument started with you saying that free agency means nothing to the Hawks. That the only people who would come here are the ones desparate to leave their current team.

If JJ had stayed in Phoenix he would have been on a perennial title contender with a strong fan base and he would have been well paid.

There are personality conflicts on every team. However the bottom line is that JJ was in a good spot but chose to come to the Hawks. There is no reason the Hawks can't get another quality free agent, or two, to come here.

[Johnnybravo4]

Quote:

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This whole nonsensical argument started with you saying that free agency means nothing to the Hawks. That the only people who would come here are the ones desparate to leave their current team.

If JJ had stayed in Phoenix he would have been on a perennial title contender with a strong fan base and he would have been well paid.

There are personality conflicts on every team. However the bottom line is that JJ was in a good spot but chose to come to the Hawks. There is no reason the Hawks can't get another quality free agent, or two, to come here.

---

What titles have they contended for?

[exodus]

Why do you insist on being such a retard.

Phoenix led the league in victories last year and are having a great season this year even without Amare.

[exodus]

Why do you insist on being such a retard.

Phoenix made the WCF last year and are having a great season this year even without Amare.

[Johnnybravo4]

Oh I didn't know leading the league in victories meant that you were competing for a title. I thought going to the finals meant that you competed for a championship. In that case, the Wizards are competing for titles as well.

[Lascar78]

Quote:

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thought going to the finals or at least the conference finals meant that you competed for a championship.

---

they did go to the conference finals

[Johnnybravo4]

Not perennially

[exodus]

Let me try to simplify it for you.

There are 30 teams in the NBA. Only 4 make it to the conference finals. If a team makes it that far they are a legit title contenders.

And if JJ didn't have a broken face they could have won it all. I never saw anyone own Duncan like Amare did.

[macdaddy]

So they would have won it all if the guy who now plays for us was playing? What does that mean for this year.

[exodus]

JJ played very well in the playoffs and he has shown some of that ability, especially recently.

IMO he is the reason that the Hawks already have more victories than last year.